Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Wrong ... very wrong
The second death is for all who do not receive mercy in judgement before the throne of God.
And that will include "born again" Christians who have failed to remain steadfast and sure in their faith and their obedience to
the word of God.
21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:
Here Jesus is telling us all that Christians can depart from keeping the commandments of the NT gospel and become lawless
or wilfully sinful > become carnal and worldly.
The second death is for all who do not receive mercy in judgement before the throne of God.
And that will include "born again" Christians who have failed to remain steadfast and sure in their faith and their obedience to
the word of God.
21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:
Here Jesus is telling us all that Christians can depart from keeping the commandments of the NT gospel and become lawless
or wilfully sinful > become carnal and worldly.
-
1
-
1
-
1
- Show all
HEY @InfidelImam the salvation loser....make sure and red x post 498 which states the same thing I said in 496
There is no condemnation for those who are saved. None now nor any at a future date. Saved now and forever by grace. We do not merit salvation but God saves us because we have trusted in Christ to forgive our sins all of our sins.
You need to hope your doctrine is wrong or no matter how great your religious pretense you will come up short on judgment day.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You need to hope your doctrine is wrong or no matter how great your religious pretense you will come up short on judgment day.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
-
4
-
1
- Show all
Let's end the doctrinal nonsense that salvation is faith in Christ alone … so unscriptural
not taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
Salvation is a lifelong process requiring commitment and inner strength to remain steadfast and sure
not to wilt, not to be distracted by the deceit of worldly lusts, not to depart from the faith ...
1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [a clear reference to self effort by a disciple]
Ephesians 4:
10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the
knowledge of God;
11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;
Colossians 1:
12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
1Thessalonians 2:
27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear
of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,
Philippians 1:
not taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
Salvation is a lifelong process requiring commitment and inner strength to remain steadfast and sure
not to wilt, not to be distracted by the deceit of worldly lusts, not to depart from the faith ...
1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [a clear reference to self effort by a disciple]
Ephesians 4:
10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the
knowledge of God;
11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;
Colossians 1:
12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
1Thessalonians 2:
27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear
of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,
Philippians 1:
-
1
- Show all
Jesus has done his part, but it is also required that disciples do their part - faithfulness and learning the mind of Christ
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:
OSAS is totally without any doctrinal merit.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:
OSAS is totally without any doctrinal merit.
-
1
- Show all
You are misinterpreting Matt 7:21. You are implying it to mean that eternal salvation is to be awarded by your works. The church that Jesus set up when he was on this earth is referenced by many names in the scriptures, in which in this verse the kingdom of heaven has reference to his church. Other names that the scriptures reference his church are: The church of God, The new Jerusalem, The church of the first born, The church of Christ, the kingdom of God and many more. Many of God's children are not granted to be in his church, but they will all inherit eternal life. All scripture must harmonize to be the doctrine of Christ and eternal salvation by the works of man will not harmonize.
-
1
- Show all
I think you may be misinterpreting 2 Pet in the fact that you do not understand the depravity of God's children by their nature of man. Jesus explains in John 6 why he came to earth and who he died for and stated that all of those that he died for will live eternally with him, without the loss of even one. This means that once Jesus has saved you, you will never lose your eternal salvation. All of God's children do not have the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross and are going about to establish their own righteousness, as evidenced in Romans 10.
-
1
- Show all
Thanks to the scriptures, we now know how to stay fixed:
John 15:9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Dear @Waggles,
You are very precious to me, I count you as my brother in Christ.
I will disagree with you on this subject of lost salvation - salvation is never lost.
The scriptures you quoted never state that salvation can be lost. They do encourage every believer to live and walk a life worthy of Christ.
This type of walk and life is one of obedience, however, there can be no obedience if there is no love for God; and there can be no love for God if there is no knowledge of God.
Bottom Line...
Those that are saved, are “in Christ.” He loses NONE.
Those that are not saved, are not “in Christ.”
Whoever is “in Christ” has been sealed with the Holy Spirit.
However, the “activation” of the Holy Spirit has not occurred in them yet.
Yeshua/Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” He was sealing them.
Yet, it wasn’t until Pentecost that they were filled (empowered/activated) with the Holy Spirit.
You are very precious to me, I count you as my brother in Christ.
I will disagree with you on this subject of lost salvation - salvation is never lost.
The scriptures you quoted never state that salvation can be lost. They do encourage every believer to live and walk a life worthy of Christ.
This type of walk and life is one of obedience, however, there can be no obedience if there is no love for God; and there can be no love for God if there is no knowledge of God.
Bottom Line...
Those that are saved, are “in Christ.” He loses NONE.
Those that are not saved, are not “in Christ.”
Whoever is “in Christ” has been sealed with the Holy Spirit.
However, the “activation” of the Holy Spirit has not occurred in them yet.
Yeshua/Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” He was sealing them.
Yet, it wasn’t until Pentecost that they were filled (empowered/activated) with the Holy Spirit.
-
1
- Show all
Now who is being unscriptural and misunderstanding of the gospel? Yes you.
What nonsense is this.
If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit (and you will demonstrably know because you will pray in tongues) then by the Spirit
of adoption you are both a son or daughter of God our Father and in the body of Christ.
Those worldly Christians who are not Spirit-filled are not children in this sense but they still have the hope of salvation as
they are servants of Christ Jesus and the gospel.
What nonsense is this.
If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit (and you will demonstrably know because you will pray in tongues) then by the Spirit
of adoption you are both a son or daughter of God our Father and in the body of Christ.
Those worldly Christians who are not Spirit-filled are not children in this sense but they still have the hope of salvation as
they are servants of Christ Jesus and the gospel.
-
1
- Show all
No @Waggles,
Without “speaking in tongues” they can still be “sealed with the Holy Spirit” and heirs of eternal salvation.
We can’t base everything on “speaking in tongues,”
Salvation is strictly based on the Blood and Body of Yeshua/Jesus.
Tongues is simply a sign that follows those that believe and are empowered to witness for Christ I. the Earth.
Every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe in Christ.
Without “speaking in tongues” they can still be “sealed with the Holy Spirit” and heirs of eternal salvation.
We can’t base everything on “speaking in tongues,”
Salvation is strictly based on the Blood and Body of Yeshua/Jesus.
Tongues is simply a sign that follows those that believe and are empowered to witness for Christ I. the Earth.
Every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe in Christ.
-
2
-
2
-
1
- Show all
True - no one will snatch them out of God's hand.
BUT many saved Christians give up. Wander back into the world. Lose faith. Lose their first love.
And if such do not repent and make their relationship with God right again before they either die or the Lord returns,
then they will not hear the words 'well done thou good and faithful servant.'
No they will be cast way as many many scriptures warn us to this loss by our doing.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye
can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire,
and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 15:
BUT many saved Christians give up. Wander back into the world. Lose faith. Lose their first love.
And if such do not repent and make their relationship with God right again before they either die or the Lord returns,
then they will not hear the words 'well done thou good and faithful servant.'
No they will be cast way as many many scriptures warn us to this loss by our doing.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye
can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire,
and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 15:
-
1
-
1
- Show all
@Waggles,
I am saved and I speak in tongues of many dialects.
Listen, what I’m about to say may seem strange but.......
ALL are in Christ - He loses NONE. But, not all are the bride.
It’s not about losing our salvation. It’s about being in the Bride.
Christ has freely given us salvation but, now it’s up to us by our works to overcome and be the Bride of Christ- the elect and elite lady.
The 7 letters of Revelation are specifically written to the Bride - not all believers.
I am saved and I speak in tongues of many dialects.
Listen, what I’m about to say may seem strange but.......
ALL are in Christ - He loses NONE. But, not all are the bride.
It’s not about losing our salvation. It’s about being in the Bride.
Christ has freely given us salvation but, now it’s up to us by our works to overcome and be the Bride of Christ- the elect and elite lady.
The 7 letters of Revelation are specifically written to the Bride - not all believers.
-
1
-
1
- Show all