Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[stonesoffire]

The word abide as in abide in me and I in you...means stay.

Stay in the fixed position of being in Him. Rest.

 

[Waggles]

There is a second death mentioned in Rev 20:14, but only those that Christ did not die for on the cross will taste of the second death. Those who have been born of the Holy Spirit in the new birth will not experience a second death. the second death is the lake of fire (hell).

Wrong ... very wrong
The second death is for all who do not receive mercy in judgement before the throne of God.
And that will include "born again" Christians who have failed to remain steadfast and sure in their faith and their obedience to
the word of God.
21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:
Here Jesus is telling us all that Christians can depart from keeping the commandments of the NT gospel and become lawless
or wilfully sinful > become carnal and worldly.

 

[cv5]

Peter was gifted with salvation long before he was born. As are all Christians.

"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love"

 

[dcontroversal]

HEY @InfidelImam the salvation loser....make sure and red x post 498 which states the same thing I said in 496

 

[notuptome]

Wrong ... very wrong
The second death is for all who do not receive mercy in judgement before the throne of God.
And that will include "born again" Christians who have failed to remain steadfast and sure in their faith and their obedience to
the word of God.
21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:
Here Jesus is telling us all that Christians can depart from keeping the commandments of the NT gospel and become lawless
or wilfully sinful > become carnal and worldly.

There is no condemnation for those who are saved. None now nor any at a future date. Saved now and forever by grace. We do not merit salvation but God saves us because we have trusted in Christ to forgive our sins all of our sins.

You need to hope your doctrine is wrong or no matter how great your religious pretense you will come up short on judgment day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

Let's end the doctrinal nonsense that salvation is faith in Christ alone … so unscriptural
not taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
Salvation is a lifelong process requiring commitment and inner strength to remain steadfast and sure
not to wilt, not to be distracted by the deceit of worldly lusts, not to depart from the faith ...

1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [a clear reference to self effort by a disciple]
Ephesians 4:
10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the
knowledge of God;
11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;
Colossians 1:
12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
1Thessalonians 2:
27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear
of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,
Philippians 1:

 

[Waggles]

There is no condemnation for those who are saved.

So who exactly is saved??

 

[Waggles]

Saved now and forever by grace. We do not merit salvation but God saves us because we have trusted in Christ to forgive our sins all of our sins.

Jesus has done his part, but it is also required that disciples do their part - faithfulness and learning the mind of Christ

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:
OSAS is totally without any doctrinal merit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Wrong ... very wrong
The second death is for all who do not receive mercy in judgement before the throne of God.
And that will include "born again" Christians who have failed to remain steadfast and sure in their faith and their obedience to
the word of God.
21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father
who is in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do
many mighty works in your name?’
23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Matthew 7:
Here Jesus is telling us all that Christians can depart from keeping the commandments of the NT gospel and become lawless
or wilfully sinful > become carnal and worldly.

You are misinterpreting Matt 7:21. You are implying it to mean that eternal salvation is to be awarded by your works. The church that Jesus set up when he was on this earth is referenced by many names in the scriptures, in which in this verse the kingdom of heaven has reference to his church. Other names that the scriptures reference his church are: The church of God, The new Jerusalem, The church of the first born, The church of Christ, the kingdom of God and many more. Many of God's children are not granted to be in his church, but they will all inherit eternal life. All scripture must harmonize to be the doctrine of Christ and eternal salvation by the works of man will not harmonize.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jesus has done his part, but it is also required that disciples do their part - faithfulness and learning the mind of Christ

5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of
our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Peter 1:
OSAS is totally without any doctrinal merit.

I think you may be misinterpreting 2 Pet in the fact that you do not understand the depravity of God's children by their nature of man. Jesus explains in John 6 why he came to earth and who he died for and stated that all of those that he died for will live eternally with him, without the loss of even one. This means that once Jesus has saved you, you will never lose your eternal salvation. All of God's children do not have the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross and are going about to establish their own righteousness, as evidenced in Romans 10.

 

[Noose]

The word abide as in abide in me and I in you...means stay.

Stay in the fixed position of being in Him. Rest.

Thanks to the scriptures, we now know how to stay fixed:

John 15:9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

 

[Lafftur]

Let's end the doctrinal nonsense that salvation is faith in Christ alone … so unscriptural
not taught by Jesus and the Apostles.
Salvation is a lifelong process requiring commitment and inner strength to remain steadfast and sure
not to wilt, not to be distracted by the deceit of worldly lusts, not to depart from the faith ...

1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love,
3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. [a clear reference to self effort by a disciple]
Ephesians 4:
10 so as to walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the
knowledge of God;
11 being strengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy;
Colossians 1:
12 we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
1Thessalonians 2:
27 Only let your manner of life be worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or am absent, I may hear
of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving side by side for the faith of the gospel,
Philippians 1:

Dear @Waggles,

You are very precious to me, I count you as my brother in Christ.

I will disagree with you on this subject of lost salvation - salvation is never lost.

The scriptures you quoted never state that salvation can be lost. They do encourage every believer to live and walk a life worthy of Christ.

This type of walk and life is one of obedience, however, there can be no obedience if there is no love for God; and there can be no love for God if there is no knowledge of God.

Bottom Line...

Those that are saved, are “in Christ.” He loses NONE.

Those that are not saved, are not “in Christ.”

Whoever is “in Christ” has been sealed with the Holy Spirit.

However, the “activation” of the Holy Spirit has not occurred in them yet.

Yeshua/Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.” He was sealing them.

Yet, it wasn’t until Pentecost that they were filled (empowered/activated) with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Waggles]

Many of God's children are not granted to be in his church, but they will all inherit eternal life.

Now who is being unscriptural and misunderstanding of the gospel? Yes you.
What nonsense is this.
If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit (and you will demonstrably know because you will pray in tongues) then by the Spirit
of adoption you are both a son or daughter of God our Father and in the body of Christ.
Those worldly Christians who are not Spirit-filled are not children in this sense but they still have the hope of salvation as
they are servants of Christ Jesus and the gospel.

 

[Waggles]

This means that once Jesus has saved you, you will never lose your eternal salvation. All of God's children do not have the knowledge of what Christ accomplished on the cross and are going about to establish their own righteousness, as evidenced in Romans 10.

Do you read this stuff on the back of your favourite cereal box?

 

[Lafftur]

Now who is being unscriptural and misunderstanding of the gospel? Yes you.
What nonsense is this.
If you have the indwelling Holy Spirit (and you will demonstrably know because you will pray in tongues) then by the Spirit
of adoption you are both a son or daughter of God our Father and in the body of Christ.
Those worldly Christians who are not Spirit-filled are not children in this sense but they still have the hope of salvation as
they are servants of Christ Jesus and the gospel.

No @Waggles,

Without “speaking in tongues” they can still be “sealed with the Holy Spirit” and heirs of eternal salvation.

We can’t base everything on “speaking in tongues,”

Salvation is strictly based on the Blood and Body of Yeshua/Jesus.

Tongues is simply a sign that follows those that believe and are empowered to witness for Christ I. the Earth.

Every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe in Christ.

 

[Waggles]

hose that are saved, are “in Christ.” He loses NONE.

True - no one will snatch them out of God's hand.
BUT many saved Christians give up. Wander back into the world. Lose faith. Lose their first love.
And if such do not repent and make their relationship with God right again before they either die or the Lord returns,
then they will not hear the words 'well done thou good and faithful servant.'
No they will be cast way as many many scriptures warn us to this loss by our doing.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me ye
can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire,
and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 15:

 

[Lafftur]

@Waggles,

I am saved and I speak in tongues of many dialects.

Listen, what I’m about to say may seem strange but.......

ALL are in Christ - He loses NONE. But, not all are the bride.

It’s not about losing our salvation. It’s about being in the Bride.

Christ has freely given us salvation but, now it’s up to us by our works to overcome and be the Bride of Christ- the elect and elite lady.

The 7 letters of Revelation are specifically written to the Bride - not all believers.

 

[Lafftur]

The Bride of Christ is like the Navy Seals. All are Navy soldiers- all are believers, but the Bride and the Navy Seals have to go through much more than your average believer/Navy soldier.

As the Bride, we have to “work” to overcome according to the 7 letters of Revelation.

 

[Lafftur]

Make no mistake, all are saved in Christ and will inherit eternal life but, not all are the Bride..

 

[Lafftur]

All believers are saved. Believers are working to be in the Bride, NOT for salvation

Salvation is secure in the Blood and Body of Christ- we are saved and redeemed and restored.

Salvation