Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

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Nat2019

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#461
Guojing said:
So in your opinion, do you think there is a difference between righteousness and justification? Do they mean the same thing?

I was taught that the latter means "as if you have never sinned."
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Us being justified means us being acceptable to God. Making us righteous in the site of God. But then if I view the definition of true faith according to James, I am made acceptable to God through that saving faith "Complete" faith.
 
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Nat2019

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#462
Nat2019 said:
Us being justified means us being acceptable to God. Making us righteous in the site of God. But then if I view the definition of true faith according to James, I am made acceptable to God through that saving faith "Complete" faith.
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Romans 3:22-24 New International Version (NIV)
22 This (righteousness) is given through (faith) in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are (justified) freely by (his grace) through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
 
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Nat2019

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#463
Guojing said:
So in your opinion, do you think there is a difference between righteousness and justification? Do they mean the same thing?

I was taught that the latter means "as if you have never sinned."
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What do you mean the latter never sinned?
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
What do you mean the latter never sinned?
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I believe the divine exchange at the cross means when we accept that free gift, God sees us, he sees Jesus, we are "in Christ".

Since Jesus knew no sin, did no sin, and in him there is no sin, that is how God also sees us. That to me is being justified.
 
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Guojing

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#465
Nat2019 said:
Us being justified means us being acceptable to God. Making us righteous in the site of God. But then if I view the definition of true faith according to James, I am made acceptable to God through that saving faith "Complete" faith.
Click to expand...
So in your view, there is no difference between the 2 terms?
 
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Nat2019

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#466
Nat2019 said:
Us being justified means us being acceptable to God. Making us righteous in the site of God. But then if I view the definition of true faith according to James, I am made acceptable to God through that saving faith "Complete" faith.
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The difference between OSAS and conditional security is how we view "Faith"

OSAS- Faith alone(No good works connected)
Conditional security- Faith that produces good works.
 
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Nat2019

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#467
Guojing said:
So in your view, there is no difference between the 2 terms?
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Well the definition on google says Justification means being made righteous in the site of God. So they are connected.
 
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Nat2019

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Nat2019 said:
Well the definition on google says Justification means being made righteous in the site of God. So they are connected.
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Philippians 3:9
And be found in him, (not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law), but that which comes through (faith) in Christ, the (righteousness) from God that depends on (faith)—

RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD THAT DEPENDS ON (FAITH)

*So it depends on (Faith).

A COMPLETE faith:). Faith displayed with action.
 
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Nat2019

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#469
Guojing said:
I believe the divine exchange at the cross means when we accept that free gift, God sees us, he sees Jesus, we are "in Christ".

Since Jesus knew no sin, did no sin, and in him there is no sin, that is how God also sees us. That to me is being justified.
Click to expand...
1 John 3:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who (does what is right is righteous), just as he is righteous.

Yes, but also you are righteous by doing what's right:)
 
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Nat2019

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#470
Nat2019 said:
1 John 3:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who (does what is right is righteous), just as he is righteous.

Yes, but also you are righteous by doing what's right:)
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Matthew 7:16-20
You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
 
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Guojing

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Nat2019 said:
1 John 3:7 New International Version (NIV)
7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who (does what is right is righteous), just as he is righteous.

Yes, but also you are righteous by doing what's right:)
Click to expand...
Oh I won't worry about 1 John now but during the Tribulation, yes, you will need to believe in Jesus and keep the commandments, the chief one is to reject the mark of the beast. (Rev 14:12)

That is where 1 John would come to play. :). I have this discussion thread over here that you may be keen on.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-is-it-still-faith-only-for-salvation.185801/
 
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Nat2019

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Nat2019 said:
Matthew 7:16-20
You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
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1 John 3:6
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.

So we are justified if we actually "know" him because if we continue to sin we haven't known him- my understanding from this scripture:)
 
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Nat2019

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#473
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Nat2019

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Jul 14, 2019
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Guojing said:
Oh I won't worry about 1 John now but during the Tribulation, yes, you will need to believe in Jesus and keep the commandments, the chief one is to reject the mark of the beast. (Rev 14:12)

That is where 1 John would come to play. :). I have this discussion thread over here that you may be keen on.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-is-it-still-faith-only-for-salvation.185801/
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Who told you not to worry about 1 john now?. We always need to care about what the bible says. You might not even be alive in the tribulation:(
 
preston39

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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#475
Nat2019 said:
Us being justified means us being acceptable to God. Making us righteous in the site of God. But then if I view the definition of true faith according to James, I am made acceptable to God through that saving faith "Complete" faith.
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Repentance, baptism and then righteous living by faith is G-d's objective for us.
 
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TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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#476
I think Philippians 3:9 says, "and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the Law, but that which is through [/by means of] faith of Christ, the righteousness of God on the basis of the faith."

["the faith" = "that body of truth" as found in the NT following His death/burial/resurrection/exaltation;... also, the words for "faith of Christ" can be translated "faithfulness of Christ"]
 
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Nat2019

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#477
Nat2019 said:
Who told you not to worry about 1 john now?. We always need to care about what the bible says. You might not even be alive in the tribulation:(
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Hebrews 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the (holiness) without which no one will see the Lord.

Without holiness we can't see the Lord.
 
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Nat2019

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TheDivineWatermark said:
I think Philippians 3:9 says, "...but that which is through [/by means of] faith of Christ, the righteousness of God on the basis of the faith." ["the faith" = "that body of truth" as found in the NT following His death/burial/resurrection/exaltation]
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Why is THE underlined?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#479
You cannot alleviate context and then make it up as you go.....end of story......
 
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