Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Why then it seems that laying the hand on somebody is in your eyes is the only pattern to recieve the Holy Spirit? Who lays the hand on the believers in acts 2 ore in acts 8 when phillip met the athiopian?
A better qiestion would be,"did they,or did they not receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands"?
Not me or you framing it as exclusive.
Your dodging verses and framing something that is not there.
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
Yes. MANY posts ago I said part of God's plan in creating man WAS to choose. Choosing illustrates their trust and love for God. Otherwise there would be NO Tree of the knowledge of good and evil available for them to choose.

THEY, Adam & Eve, were made perfect in Body, Spirit and Soul. I believe THEY had a legitimate choice before they chose wrong and died.

EVERYONE born of them, and after them, is born in ADAM'S spiritual image. NOT God's!

So we are in essence born spiritually dead. Many Scriptures testify to this. Dead people CANNOT make ANY choices.

Make NO mistake. THIS is THE definitive purpose for God Creating man:

Isaiah 43:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Everyone who is called by My name,
Whom I have created for My glory;
I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”


Should kinda settle the question. Prolly not gonna happen I suspect.
That "like" put a smile on my face
Bless you bro
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
A better qiestion would be,"did they,or did they not receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of hands"?
Not me or you framing it as exclusive.
Your dodging verses and framing something that is not there.[/QUOT

Where it is written in acts 2 ore in case of the athiopian that they received the Holy Spirit by laying the hand of the believers?
According the scripture, it is not mentioned in case of the 3000 after Peters sermon. And for shure it was not when the Holy Spirit came upon the believers at pentecost.
Also it is not mention in acts 8 when Phillip was sent to the athiopian.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
Isaiah 43:7 New King James Version (NKJV)
7 Everyone who is called by My name,
Whom I have created for My glory;
I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”
How is one called by God's name? Mankind partakes of the spiritual rebirth through his/her choice to be obedient causing the person to be called a child of God. Children receive their father's name. For Jesus said, unless a man is born of water and Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

In submitting to the rebirth experience individual's acquire the name of Jesus' Christ:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:9
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
Why then it seems that laying the hand on somebody is in your eyes is the only pattern to recieve the Holy Spirit? Who lays the hand on the believers in acts 2 ore in acts 8 when phillip met the athiopian?
Acts 8 records the water baptism of the Ethopian by Philip it is not the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,614
9,127
113
How is one called by God's name? Mankind partakes of the spiritual rebirth through his/her choice to be obedient causing the person to be called a child of God. Children receive their father's name. For Jesus said, unless a man is born of water and Spirit he can not enter the kingdom of Heaven.

In submitting to the rebirth experience individual's acquire the name of Jesus' Christ:
"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:9
Please refer to post 1643 for answer to your question. Thanks
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
Please refer to post 1643 for answer to your question. Thanks
Everyone who is called by My name,
Whom I have created for My glory;
I have formed him, yes, I have made him.”

My comment is concerning when one acquires God's name. God states in the above scripture that those called by His name have been created and formed by Him.

Scriptures indicating when one receives the name of Jesus:
John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:15-16
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Cor 1:13-16
… were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
Acts 8 records the water baptism of the Ethopian by Philip it is not the infilling of the Holy Spirit.
So, does he got the Holy Spirit? Ore went he away without?
Can you imagnine that someone get the Holy Spirit without laying hands on this person?
Only through repent and prayer? And not as a person acting, but Gods acting?
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
So, does he got the Holy Spirit? Ore went he away without?
Can you imagnine that someone get the Holy Spirit without laying hands on this person?
Only through repent and prayer? And not as a person acting, but Gods acting?
The record only addresses the fact that Philip knew water baptism was necessary and therefore he baptized the eunuch.
Many believe that water baptism was only performed by the apostles to show God had accepted the Gentile and Samaritan nations as well as the Jewish. This scripture offers evidence to the contrary and is a perfect example of the need for all individuals to be water baptized.

There is no record of the eunuch being filled with the Holy Ghost. Surely this is not to imply he never received it or didn't need it. There are many other scriptures that state that the Holy Ghost is required, and does at times happen some time after water baptism as well.(Acts 8:12, 17)
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
The record only addresses the fact that Philip knew water baptism was necessary and therefore he baptized the eunuch.
Many believe that water baptism was only performed by the apostles to show God had accepted the Gentile and Samaritan nations as well as the Jewish. This scripture offers evidence to the contrary and is a perfect example of the need for all individuals to be water baptized.

There is no record of the eunuch being filled with the Holy Ghost. Surely this is not to imply he never received it or didn't need it. There are many other scriptures that state that the Holy Ghost is required, and does at times happen some time after water baptism as well.(Acts 8:12, 17)
Thank you, but you gave only a partly answer to my question.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
Thank you, but you gave only a partly answer to my question.
God Himself chose to pour His Spirit into the Jews in the upper room and later into the Gentiles in Acts 10:44-48. Speaking in tongues was the evidence of the infilling of God's Spirit in both cases.

The Samaritans who are half Jewish and half Gentile, and the Ephesus disciples received the Holy Ghost both through the laying on of hands by other disciples. The record of the disciples of Ephesus specifies that speaking in tongues occurred. (Acts 19:1-6) Whereas, the Samaritan experience of speaking in tongues is implied. (Acts 8:18)

The bible record clearly shows that after the initial infilling of Jews and Gentiles, individual's received the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. Also, Luke 11:9-13 states that if one asks for the gift of the Holy Ghost God will give it in answer to their prayer.

Hope this helps.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
3,778
943
113
62
God Himself chose to pour His Spirit into the Jews in the upper room and later into the Gentiles in Acts 10:44-48. Speaking in tongues was the evidence of the infilling of God's Spirit in both cases.

The Samaritans who are half Jewish and half Gentile, and the Ephesus disciples received the Holy Ghost both through the laying on of hands by other disciples. The record of the disciples of Ephesus specifies that speaking in tongues occurred. (Acts 19:1-6) Whereas, the Samaritan experience of speaking in tongues is implied. (Acts 8:18)

The bible record clearly shows that after the initial infilling of Jews and Gentiles, individual's received the Holy Ghost through the laying on of hands. Also, Luke 11:9-13 states that if one asks for the gift of the Holy Ghost God will give it in answer to their prayer.

Hope this helps.
This explaines not that before 1901 you cant find this teaching realized.
That means that people before 1901 was not infilled with the Holy Spirit.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
This explaines not that before 1901 you cant find this teaching realized.
That means that people before 1901 was not infilled with the Holy Spirit.
You have been shown multiple times that you lack understanding of the historical record.
God says ask and it will be given, seek and you shall find. Maybe you should try that.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
But then you probably realized they were indeed saved.
They;
Were virgins
Undefiled
Pure
Had lamps
Were waiting and watching for Jesus
Were in the assembly of other believers
Had light
I am 64 yrs old and have never seen sinners/heathen in that condition.
They are described as virgins because they had not gone after other religions. They were religious as Judaism commanded them. they were not ready for the appearance of the Messiah. They were asleep and not seeing the Messiah in their midst. The virgins who were given entrance were alert and expecting the appearance of their promised Messiah.

No one is ever saved by works. The virgins who were given entrance had faith that Messiah would come as promised. They believed the word of God and counted the promises of God to be true.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,265
1,110
113
They are described as virgins because they had not gone after other religions. They were religious as Judaism commanded them. they were not ready for the appearance of the Messiah. They were asleep and not seeing the Messiah in their midst. The virgins who were given entrance were alert and expecting the appearance of their promised Messiah.

No one is ever saved by works. The virgins who were given entrance had faith that Messiah would come as promised. They believed the word of God and counted the promises of God to be true.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
The virgins all woke up--none slept as you suggest. The only difference was that 5 lacked oil and were left behind while the other 5, that had oil, went with the bridegroom:

"And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut."
Matt 25:6-10
 

Petercito

Active member
May 21, 2019
100
28
28
< Speaks in Tongues. Understands how to get connected via the Holy Spirit, and to be that Live Wire that allows God to work through me.

Just a bystander in this thread watching the responses. Will chime in if/when I see misuse of scripture trying to prove Tongues has ceased. Just love those who believe Tongues has ceased. It's nice to see just whom our weaker Brothers/Sisters in Christ are, and exactly who lacks the true power of God.

The gift of ‘languages’ was the fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy (Isaiah 28:11-13)

11Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues
God will speak to this people,
12to whom he said,
“This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;
and, “This is the place of repose”—
but they would not listen.
13So then, the word of the Lord to them will become:
Do this, do that,
a rule for this, a rule for that;
a little here, a little there—
so that as they go they will fall backward;
they will be injured and snared and captured.

1. It was intended as a final sign to Israel of the impending destruction of Jerusalem which occurred in AD70.

Supernatural ‘spiritual gifts’ were delivered exclusively through the agency of the 12 Apostles

Acts 8v18 When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money 19 and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

Other supernatural spiritual gifts were all intended to validate the Apostles’ eyewitness testimony to Jesus’ resurrection. (Mark 16:20; Acts 1:8; Acts 4:33; Heb. 2:3-4)

The circumstantial evidence is consistent with this:
1. Paul had to travel all the way to Rome to impart spiritual gifts to the Romans (Rom. 1:11).
2. Timothy’s spiritual gift was delivered through Paul’s hands: (2 Tim. 1:6).
3. Paul imparted spiritual gifts to the Ephesians (Acts 19:6).
4. There is no case in the NT where people received spiritual gifts apart from the immediate presence of one of the 12 ‘chosen eyewitnesses.’

Paul’s statement that supernatural spiritual gifts would cease to be given (1 Cor. 13:8-13).
1. Love never ‘expires’ (ἐκπίπτει {ek-pip’-to} – lit. to “fall off,” met. “fail or expire”)
2. Prophecies will be ‘cancelled’ (καταργηθήσεται {kat-ar-geh’-o} future, passive voice – lit. “will be cancelled”).
3. Tongues (languages) will ‘cease of itself’ (παύσονται {pow’-o} future, middle voice – “cease of itself.”
4. Knowledge (by direct revelation) will ‘(καταργηθήσεται {kat-ar-geh’-o} future, passive voice – lit. “will be cancelled”).

Other gifts (like healing) may have continued until the deaths of the recipients, as late as approx. AD 180
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
721
113
Not gonna deviate to the left or right until the matter of God telling you the purpose for which He created man was to choose is settled.


I have already given a ton of Scripture to validate my points. You have given ONE verse, wildly out of context or meaning to what is being discussed to bolster this voice telling you the purpose for God creating man.

You don't wanna back up your claim with Scripture that's on YOU, not me.

To answer about being a good Berean, I can honestly say I literally can't remember the last day that I didn't read, pray on, study, and meditate on God's Word. THAT is His manna that we are supposed to live on. From Christ's own mouth:

Matthew 4:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
In simple terms you're welcome to stay on that topic as long as you like.

I'll try one more time to convey a few basic concepts on this particular topic, then I intend to move on to answering the 2nd half of what I'd promised the room.

-----

I was asking God about something that I couldn't find directly stated in the bible. Basically, I could see a list of purposes similar to the ones you have been providing, but not a statement of singular purpose that answered the question I was asking. THAT is why I needed to ask. And to be further specific, i was asking about the purpose from man's perspective. (in other words, not what God was going to get out of it, but what man is).

So, when a man asks "What is the purpose of this life?" (Or to say it in more common but less accurate wording "Why am i here?") The answer = "To choose".

I'm not attempting to provide a direct Bible quote stating it because , again, I was asking the truth about a topic not stated verbatim in the bible.

I'm not flooding the thread with scriptures because 1) the examples of man being given choice and even commanded to choose are throughout the bible (and you yourself recently added choice to your list of purposes) and 1a) Berean-ish people will find them as they search. 2) they wouldn't be the verbatim statement of question/answer that you seem to require and I've already acknowledged likely isn't verbatim quotable and 3) I don't see how posting 20, 50 or 100 biblical references to man having choice would change your understanding.

Additional information:
There are some related scriptures that pretty much guarantee you won't understand... unless you decide to adjust yourself to them in the positive way. They are:

Luke 16:10 KJV
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.

John 9:40-41 KJV
And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? [41] Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Proverbs 15:33 KJV
...before honour is humility.

All the Pharisees had to do in order to be freed from the consequences of their blindness was to admit they had it. but their pride (need to be right) kept them from admitting any fault.

The same has been happening here. When I showed you the error in thinking that the purpose of man's life on earth was "to love Him with all our heart, mind, soul and body" did you admit any error? Not so far as I've seen. Why? because of Luke 16:10 and the fact that when a least thing (changing a plural to a singular) was pointed out to you, you also chose to avoid admitting any error.

Out of respect, I'm not going to post a response to posting #1759 unless you specifically request that I do.


Continually, Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 
Jul 23, 2018
12,199
2,775
113
They are described as virgins because they had not gone after other religions. They were religious as Judaism commanded them. they were not ready for the appearance of the Messiah. They were asleep and not seeing the Messiah in their midst. The virgins who were given entrance were alert and expecting the appearance of their promised Messiah.

No one is ever saved by works. The virgins who were given entrance had faith that Messiah would come as promised. They believed the word of God and counted the promises of God to be true.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
1) if they had the list i posted they were saved.
2) they all slept
3)other religions do not have a resurrected savior.....no light.

Did you even read the parable????