I would offer. The Bible is written to all to whom the Spirit of Christ who is not a Jew not a man as us gives ears to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches. We are commanded to know no man after the flesh(what the eyes see the temporal ) even though some did know Christ after the flesh. from then on after the Son of man disappeared out of sight we know him no more in that way. We walk by faith, the unseen eternal. The whole rainbow as the color of the peace of God that surpasses our understanding. The multi- colored coat of Josef.The gospel of Christ. Black to white.
Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14
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Sigh... And what purpose would that serve? If there is error in what I presented, feel free to point it out.
Otherwise, we should be agreeing that "Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you" are still the functioning word of God.
Haven't you ever asked God a hard question? If you have effectually, then you already know how he does it. And if you haven't learned how to pray effectually, ... then you are subject to being asked to explain why you are questioning the validity of my prayer life... instead of the other way around.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Otherwise, we should be agreeing that "Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you" are still the functioning word of God.
Haven't you ever asked God a hard question? If you have effectually, then you already know how he does it. And if you haven't learned how to pray effectually, ... then you are subject to being asked to explain why you are questioning the validity of my prayer life... instead of the other way around.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I agree with your description of a person's personal relationship with Jesus. And the biblical record refutes the concept of "once saved, always saved.
I just wondered if there was more insight to be gained from the parable in regards to the foolish having only a lamp with minimal oil and no vessel of oil upon the bridegroom's arrival.
I just wondered if there was more insight to be gained from the parable in regards to the foolish having only a lamp with minimal oil and no vessel of oil upon the bridegroom's arrival.
It has nothing to do with the corrupted flesh of nations. Jesus of his own Hebrew flesh declared it profits for nothing zip, nada.
He will come on that last day. Six times it is emphasized in John 6 alone.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The lake of fire is for those who have already been judged and found without faith as them who have not participated in the first ressurection, the resurrection of our new incorruptible spirits. In the same twinkling of the eye on that last day those who did have part in the first ressurection they will receive their new incorruptible bodies.
The thousand in that parable represent a unknown .We walk by faith and not those of the number. The prescription is when we look to the things seen the temporal (like numbers) we are to search out the eternal understanding not seen .if we turn that upside down it makes the word of God without effect.
2 Corinthians 10:12For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
I have difficulty believing that scripture was written for one group of sinners that must be born again any differently than others.
What would be the reason seeing we are not what we will be? What do you think the new incorruptible bodies will be like? Will we appear to be Jew or gentile. male or female?
1 John 3 King James Version (KJV) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
He will come on that last day. Six times it is emphasized in John 6 alone.
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
The lake of fire is for those who have already been judged and found without faith as them who have not participated in the first ressurection, the resurrection of our new incorruptible spirits. In the same twinkling of the eye on that last day those who did have part in the first ressurection they will receive their new incorruptible bodies.
The thousand in that parable represent a unknown .We walk by faith and not those of the number. The prescription is when we look to the things seen the temporal (like numbers) we are to search out the eternal understanding not seen .if we turn that upside down it makes the word of God without effect.
2 Corinthians 10:12For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
I have difficulty believing that scripture was written for one group of sinners that must be born again any differently than others.
What would be the reason seeing we are not what we will be? What do you think the new incorruptible bodies will be like? Will we appear to be Jew or gentile. male or female?
1 John 3 King James Version (KJV) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Sigh... And what purpose would that serve? If there is error in what I presented, feel free to point it out.
Otherwise, we should be agreeing that "Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you" are still the functioning word of God.
Haven't you ever asked God a hard question? If you have effectually, then you already know how he does it. And if you haven't learned how to pray effectually, ... then you are subject to being asked to explain why you are questioning the validity of my prayer life... instead of the other way around.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Otherwise, we should be agreeing that "Ask and ye shall receive; seek and ye shall find; knock and it shall be opened unto you" are still the functioning word of God.
Haven't you ever asked God a hard question? If you have effectually, then you already know how he does it. And if you haven't learned how to pray effectually, ... then you are subject to being asked to explain why you are questioning the validity of my prayer life... instead of the other way around.
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
But you HAVE encapsulated a key issue that is at the core of the discussions here on so many threads. Feelings, signs, experiences, thoughts, voices, vs. the Word. NONE of the former are worth one speck IF they don't also line up with Scripture.
Here is Peter with an emotional, passionate, thought he expresses to Jesus after Jesus tells him THE GOSPEL,
Matthew 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.
22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”
And how did this thought pop into his head? it CERTAINLY wasn't from the Scriptures, which say the Messiah must suffer and be killed!
Here's how: 23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Was Jesus calling Peter Satan? No. He likely could see Satan standing next to Peter whispering heresy in his ear.
I have prayed and asked God MANY things. He ALWAYS refers me in SOME manner back to His Word.
JESUS Himself gives us this model in how He dealt with the questions, accusations, and temptations of Satan. EVERY response He gave came from the Word. "Is it not written..."
So if you, or I, or ANYBODY else says that something is from God it is our DUTY to be like the Bereans, and receive it with eagerness, BUT search the Scriptures daily, whether those things are true.
So when I search the Scriptures I don't see the purpose for God creating us to be to choose. In some sense that may have been the case with Adam & Eve. God's original intent was to create us in His Image to glorify Himself. To have communion and fellowship with beings that were to reflect His Glory. To have dominion over the Earth. Ultimately to love Him with all our heart, mind, body and soul.
Although we are PHYSICALLY born in His image today, Spiritually we are born in Adam's fallen, sinful, DEAD image, UNTIL we are born again from above.
If you examine the content quantity of the Bible, you have a few chapters in Genesis, a couple of Psalms, a few other mentions here and there dealing with God's Creation. BUT THE VAST MAJORITY of His Word deals with His GREATEST Work. His redemption of humanity!
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i feel the need to ask you directly if you believe man has choice in the matter of believing.
Do we have the option to believe, or is belief simply forced uponsome of us, by God?
I'm of the understanding the God sets before us life and death, and exhorts (even commands) us to choose life... (meaning life is available). But I understand some people believe we have no choice.
Do we have the option to believe, or is belief simply forced uponsome of us, by God?
I'm of the understanding the God sets before us life and death, and exhorts (even commands) us to choose life... (meaning life is available). But I understand some people believe we have no choice.
According to the pattern/parable or the substance. The heavenly things themselves?
I would say that the word of God defines the patterns he uses in a parables. And the laying on of hands a ceremonial law is not exempt. Searching for the hidden understanding is how the Holy Spirit worked in men as the power of the gospel . They knew of the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed. It was the purpose of using patterns as parables, preach the suffering of Christ beforehand the gospel
God strengthened their faith by looking ahead by faith as he strengthens as the same mutual faith of Christ that works in us to look back to the demonstration.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:9-11
Many today say men did not have the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. If not I would wonder just what did strengthen their faith or did they have no faith?
Leviticus 16:20-22 King James Version (KJV) And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
Now of course ceremonial laws are empty shadows as signs that again pointed ahead to Jesus our scapegoat.
literally putting a hand on someone's head might move their head to investigate who touched me? . But like water it can only get a person wet and will dry up.
A person would need to seek the 20 /20 prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18) in order the receive the unseen eternal understanding.
The foundation for the laying on of hands doctrine is established as a ceremonial law not subject to change by a oral tradition of men.
As always the old testament sets the standard preparing for the greater brighter light the last days through a demonstrations with His Son.
In the new testament God has spoken through His Son giving us demonstrations to help us understand the use of the words . Hand, it represent the unseen will of God . Head as the mind of God. Mind and will both working together to do will and perform his good pleasure . (imputed righteousness). I would think not a touchy feely pleasure that we could have thinking God is served by human hands and does need the clay to help him form Christ in us.
Jesus our scape goat. When establishing the new manner of priesthood of believers as our high priest coming from the tribe of Judah was baptized by the last Levite John to be become a member of the new priesthood as our high priest after the order of Melchezedek . On His first mission he was to be sent out into the wilderness as our scapegoat. The father laid his will according to his good purpose laying words in on the heart of Jesus of the Son of man .He said again, again as it is written, Not after a shadow as a ceremonial law. Walk by the unseen eternal not after what they eyes see the temporal .
Good lesson on that in Acts 14 the apostles laying hands and those who have no faith made them into the likeness of gods many .they would have nothing to do with laying of hands the work accredited to the corrupted hands of men
No such thing a "sign gift" .Sign as a cerinimoinal laws yes. (tongues, baptisms, circumcisions , laying on of hands , some today to add to the list of fll yer up ...fall back slain? What's next? Holy laughter? .
Sign are as a curse directed at those who have no faith... that exclusively work of God comes as prophecy as it is written, yes .
The thing is.... yet for all of those warning they still refuse to believe all things written in the law and the prophets and hold tightly to their oral traditions of those who do seek after signs and wonder before they will believe. something.
John 6:3 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
I would say that the word of God defines the patterns he uses in a parables. And the laying on of hands a ceremonial law is not exempt. Searching for the hidden understanding is how the Holy Spirit worked in men as the power of the gospel . They knew of the suffering of Christ beforehand and the glory that followed. It was the purpose of using patterns as parables, preach the suffering of Christ beforehand the gospel
God strengthened their faith by looking ahead by faith as he strengthens as the same mutual faith of Christ that works in us to look back to the demonstration.
Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:9-11
Many today say men did not have the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. If not I would wonder just what did strengthen their faith or did they have no faith?
Leviticus 16:20-22 King James Version (KJV) And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy place, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send him away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness.
Now of course ceremonial laws are empty shadows as signs that again pointed ahead to Jesus our scapegoat.
literally putting a hand on someone's head might move their head to investigate who touched me? . But like water it can only get a person wet and will dry up.
A person would need to seek the 20 /20 prescription (2 Corinthians 4:18) in order the receive the unseen eternal understanding.
The foundation for the laying on of hands doctrine is established as a ceremonial law not subject to change by a oral tradition of men.
As always the old testament sets the standard preparing for the greater brighter light the last days through a demonstrations with His Son.
In the new testament God has spoken through His Son giving us demonstrations to help us understand the use of the words . Hand, it represent the unseen will of God . Head as the mind of God. Mind and will both working together to do will and perform his good pleasure . (imputed righteousness). I would think not a touchy feely pleasure that we could have thinking God is served by human hands and does need the clay to help him form Christ in us.
Jesus our scape goat. When establishing the new manner of priesthood of believers as our high priest coming from the tribe of Judah was baptized by the last Levite John to be become a member of the new priesthood as our high priest after the order of Melchezedek . On His first mission he was to be sent out into the wilderness as our scapegoat. The father laid his will according to his good purpose laying words in on the heart of Jesus of the Son of man .He said again, again as it is written, Not after a shadow as a ceremonial law. Walk by the unseen eternal not after what they eyes see the temporal .
Good lesson on that in Acts 14 the apostles laying hands and those who have no faith made them into the likeness of gods many .they would have nothing to do with laying of hands the work accredited to the corrupted hands of men
No such thing a "sign gift" .Sign as a cerinimoinal laws yes. (tongues, baptisms, circumcisions , laying on of hands , some today to add to the list of fll yer up ...fall back slain? What's next? Holy laughter? .
Sign are as a curse directed at those who have no faith... that exclusively work of God comes as prophecy as it is written, yes .
The thing is.... yet for all of those warning they still refuse to believe all things written in the law and the prophets and hold tightly to their oral traditions of those who do seek after signs and wonder before they will believe. something.
John 6:3 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
We have a choice as soon as he gives us a new heart, a new desire. (not forcing but by His labor of love or work of faith …..drawing . God our Faithfull Creator must do the first works. Not before or after we beleive. But as he does work in us to both will and perform his good pleasure.as the one source of Christian faith (Christ) He says we should do so without murmuring under our breath or play "who is the greatest" as did the apostles for a while.
Choice is a consistent theme throughout the Word starting with Adam and Eve. The historical record witnesses mankind being blessed or cursed in accordance with their choices. Everyone is required to make a choice and should choose life through obedience. Mankind's choice to follow God-given instructions causes mankind's spirit to be reborn by the grace of God.
"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:22-23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." 1 Peter 1:22-23
Well I don't have an issue answering anything. But I don't want to get distracted by your question or your need to ask me something, until you answer what I have asked several times now.
You say God told you that the reason He created man was so that man would make a choice. I'm asking how you know He told you this? In what way did that answer manifest itself? How did you know it from Him?
You say God told you that the reason He created man was so that man would make a choice. I'm asking how you know He told you this? In what way did that answer manifest itself? How did you know it from Him?
You subscribe to Covenant Theology, which will naturally make it difficult for you to understand dispensationalism. That is understandable.
Briefly stated, Covenant Theology emphasizes the unity of the scriptures and sees one people of God and one plan of salvation for all, in contrast to Dispensationalism which sees a dichatomy, or permanent division, between the Church and Israel as two separate peoples of God, and divides the scriptures into 7 dispensations in which God deals with people in different ways.
Covenant Theology has a high view of the unity in God's purpose in human redemption. It is called "covenant" theology not because of an emphasis on the Biblical/historical covenants as such but on certain theological covenants -- the covenant of works (Gen 2:16,17), the covenant of redemption (a necessary precursor to Gen 3:15), and the covenant of grace. The covenant of grace is essentially the promise made in Gen 3:15 of the coming deliverer, and all of history is viewed as a progressive unfolding of this covenant. Thus, the New Covenant, in Covenant Theology, is not understood as a new covenant actually; it is rather a new administration (or dispensation) of the covenant of grace, as was the Mosaic Covenant before it. One covenant with various administrations is the essence of Covenant Theology on this point. Therefore, the Old Covenant is seen as an essentially gracious covenant, not a legal one. Further, with this emphasis on the unity of God's purpose there is a strong tendency in Covenant Theology to carry over the old order into the new: the church is the Israel of God the law of circumcision in the Old Covenant is intimately linked to the baptism of the New Covenant.
Dispensational Theology emphasizes rather the various differences in God's dealings with men. A "dispensation" has to do with the various administrations of Divine truth. With new revelation come new responsibilities and/or privileges. This change results in a new "economy" or dispensation. With this emphasis on the various changes in God's program, Dispensationalism sees more emphasis upon the differences between the old and new economies or dispensations. For the (traditional) dispensationalist, there are two separate peoples of God running through all history and even eternity (National Israel and the New Testament Church), law is a thing of the past and largely irrelevant to the New Covenant believer, and so on.
Briefly stated, Covenant Theology emphasizes the unity of the scriptures and sees one people of God and one plan of salvation for all, in contrast to Dispensationalism which sees a dichatomy, or permanent division, between the Church and Israel as two separate peoples of God, and divides the scriptures into 7 dispensations in which God deals with people in different ways.
Covenant Theology has a high view of the unity in God's purpose in human redemption. It is called "covenant" theology not because of an emphasis on the Biblical/historical covenants as such but on certain theological covenants -- the covenant of works (Gen 2:16,17), the covenant of redemption (a necessary precursor to Gen 3:15), and the covenant of grace. The covenant of grace is essentially the promise made in Gen 3:15 of the coming deliverer, and all of history is viewed as a progressive unfolding of this covenant. Thus, the New Covenant, in Covenant Theology, is not understood as a new covenant actually; it is rather a new administration (or dispensation) of the covenant of grace, as was the Mosaic Covenant before it. One covenant with various administrations is the essence of Covenant Theology on this point. Therefore, the Old Covenant is seen as an essentially gracious covenant, not a legal one. Further, with this emphasis on the unity of God's purpose there is a strong tendency in Covenant Theology to carry over the old order into the new: the church is the Israel of God the law of circumcision in the Old Covenant is intimately linked to the baptism of the New Covenant.
Dispensational Theology emphasizes rather the various differences in God's dealings with men. A "dispensation" has to do with the various administrations of Divine truth. With new revelation come new responsibilities and/or privileges. This change results in a new "economy" or dispensation. With this emphasis on the various changes in God's program, Dispensationalism sees more emphasis upon the differences between the old and new economies or dispensations. For the (traditional) dispensationalist, there are two separate peoples of God running through all history and even eternity (National Israel and the New Testament Church), law is a thing of the past and largely irrelevant to the New Covenant believer, and so on.
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If you're talking about your original question of "What part do we have in our fleshly and spiritual births" this whole line of questions is off of that topic.
Plus, I didn't say it was for man to make a choice, I said it was for man to CHOOSE. Your entire life is choices, and we'll give account for each and every one. Why? because we make those choices of our own free will. (which will he gave us)
You said "God's original intent was (1) to create us in His Image (2) to glorify Himself. (3)To have communion and fellowship with beings that were (4) to reflect His Glory. (5) To have dominion over the Earth. Ultimately (6) to love Him with all our heart, mind, body and soul."
Besides the idea that you stated not one purpose but six purposes, it seems some of them are God's purpose(s) and some are man's purpose(s). And if God's purpose was for man (ALL men and women) to love him with all our heart, mind, body and soul...then many fail in that purpose and God failed in the purpose of having ALL to love him. (Which means there is provable error in your answer)
But no man fails to choose.
With Love in Christ Jesus,
Kelby
Plus, I didn't say it was for man to make a choice, I said it was for man to CHOOSE. Your entire life is choices, and we'll give account for each and every one. Why? because we make those choices of our own free will. (which will he gave us)
You said "God's original intent was (1) to create us in His Image (2) to glorify Himself. (3)To have communion and fellowship with beings that were (4) to reflect His Glory. (5) To have dominion over the Earth. Ultimately (6) to love Him with all our heart, mind, body and soul."
Besides the idea that you stated not one purpose but six purposes, it seems some of them are God's purpose(s) and some are man's purpose(s). And if God's purpose was for man (ALL men and women) to love him with all our heart, mind, body and soul...then many fail in that purpose and God failed in the purpose of having ALL to love him. (Which means there is provable error in your answer)
But no man fails to choose.
With Love in Christ Jesus,
Kelby
Sorry. Don't want to discuss the Scriptural basis for each purpose God created us for until you answer.
THIS is what YOU said in post #1712
"I once asked God "What IS the purpose of this life?" because I was trying to find additional challenging questions to ask him. I expected it would be months or years before I started to receive the answers. But almost IMMEDIATELY HE SAID "It is for man to CHOOSE." (as in, it is for a man to make his choices)
EXACTLY what I said you said!
So how did His answer that HE SAID, that came almost immediately, manifest itself? Did you hear His Voice?
Why should I, or anybody else, take on face value that God told you ANYTHING? Just because you say it?
THIS is what YOU said in post #1712
"I once asked God "What IS the purpose of this life?" because I was trying to find additional challenging questions to ask him. I expected it would be months or years before I started to receive the answers. But almost IMMEDIATELY HE SAID "It is for man to CHOOSE." (as in, it is for a man to make his choices)
EXACTLY what I said you said!
So how did His answer that HE SAID, that came almost immediately, manifest itself? Did you hear His Voice?
Why should I, or anybody else, take on face value that God told you ANYTHING? Just because you say it?