Not By Works
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I do enjoy pretty things, too! 
Thanks for your reply, it helped me understand what you were saying.
Interesting.... I really wasn't familiar with Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) until joining CC.
Do you feel OSAS is a corrupting doctrine because it seems like a "false sense" of security and you're concerned that people might fall into the trap of thinking they're saved but are not?
Sorry if people are not considering your Matthew 7:24-25 verses about two foundations. I'll consider them....
I looked at the whole story leading up to the two foundations. These are my thoughts:
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
This is kind of scary because they are calling Yeshua/Jesus "Lord" yet, they do not get to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, it appears it is VERY IMPORTANT to understand what He means by "he that does the will of My Father in heaven."
What is the "Will of the Father" in regards to entering the kingdom of heaven?
I think the answer is found in John 3:16 and also, the conversation between Yeshua and Nicodemus because the Father's Will is always accomplished with His Word and His Spirit.
The Blood of Yeshua/Jesus saves us from our sins by washing them away completely;
The Body of Yeshua/Jesus is the human fulfillment of the Law which is His Righteousness that He gives us;
Then, we get the Promise of the Father - The Spirit of Truth - The Holy Spirit. Yeshua/Jesus baptizes us with it. The Holy Spirit indwells us, seals us and we become born again - of water and Spirit. The washing of the water of the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Some might say the Water Baptism and the Holy Spirit Baptism.
John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
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Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is the Father's Will that both - His Word and His Spirit indwell us. We cannot do the Father's Will without both - Yeshua/Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, we're just doing a bunch of 'good works' according to human reasoning that are not the Father's Will. These are "works of iniquity." These works just feed our ego/flesh and do nothing for the kingdom of heaven.
When you refer to adhering to the conditions of eternal security, you define these conditions as being:
- Believe in Jesus and
- Obey His (Jesus) word.
I think the problem is that when you say "obey His word," it sounds as if you are saying that "works are required by us to complete Yeshua/Jesus saving us," which is not what scripture says.
Yeshua/Jesus (as all authority of the Word of God and with all the power of God which is the Holy Spirit, without measure) completed every work necessary for our salvation.
Now, the Father wants us to receive what has been done for us.
He wants us to be cleansed from sin with Yeshua/Jesus' Blood, imputed with Yeshua/Jesus' Righteousness by His Body and full of the Holy Spirit - being born again so, we can walk in His authority and power making us able to do the Father's Will and by so doing, enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
So, we need to hear the Word of God and do it! But, remember we can't do it without the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, we're just doing good works according to the flesh which is sand. We want to do works that are according to the Father's Will, which require His Word and His Spirit.
Well, I wrote a long post. I hope you read it. I hope someone reads it........lol! I know I often jump over long posts......lol!
Thanks for your reply, it helped me understand what you were saying. Interesting.... I really wasn't familiar with Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) until joining CC.
Do you feel OSAS is a corrupting doctrine because it seems like a "false sense" of security and you're concerned that people might fall into the trap of thinking they're saved but are not?
Sorry if people are not considering your Matthew 7:24-25 verses about two foundations. I'll consider them....
I looked at the whole story leading up to the two foundations. These are my thoughts:
Matthew 7:21 King James Version (KJV)
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
This is kind of scary because they are calling Yeshua/Jesus "Lord" yet, they do not get to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, it appears it is VERY IMPORTANT to understand what He means by "he that does the will of My Father in heaven."
What is the "Will of the Father" in regards to entering the kingdom of heaven?
I think the answer is found in John 3:16 and also, the conversation between Yeshua and Nicodemus because the Father's Will is always accomplished with His Word and His Spirit.
The Blood of Yeshua/Jesus saves us from our sins by washing them away completely;
The Body of Yeshua/Jesus is the human fulfillment of the Law which is His Righteousness that He gives us;
Then, we get the Promise of the Father - The Spirit of Truth - The Holy Spirit. Yeshua/Jesus baptizes us with it. The Holy Spirit indwells us, seals us and we become born again - of water and Spirit. The washing of the water of the Word and the Holy Spirit.
Some might say the Water Baptism and the Holy Spirit Baptism.
John 3:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John 3:1-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
-----------------------------------
Matthew 7:22-23 King James Version (KJV)
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
It is the Father's Will that both - His Word and His Spirit indwell us. We cannot do the Father's Will without both - Yeshua/Jesus AND the Holy Spirit.
Otherwise, we're just doing a bunch of 'good works' according to human reasoning that are not the Father's Will. These are "works of iniquity." These works just feed our ego/flesh and do nothing for the kingdom of heaven.
When you refer to adhering to the conditions of eternal security, you define these conditions as being:
- Believe in Jesus and
- Obey His (Jesus) word.
I think the problem is that when you say "obey His word," it sounds as if you are saying that "works are required by us to complete Yeshua/Jesus saving us," which is not what scripture says.
Yeshua/Jesus (as all authority of the Word of God and with all the power of God which is the Holy Spirit, without measure) completed every work necessary for our salvation.
Now, the Father wants us to receive what has been done for us.
He wants us to be cleansed from sin with Yeshua/Jesus' Blood, imputed with Yeshua/Jesus' Righteousness by His Body and full of the Holy Spirit - being born again so, we can walk in His authority and power making us able to do the Father's Will and by so doing, enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:24-27 King James Version (KJV)
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
So, we need to hear the Word of God and do it! But, remember we can't do it without the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, we're just doing good works according to the flesh which is sand. We want to do works that are according to the Father's Will, which require His Word and His Spirit.
Well, I wrote a long post. I hope you read it. I hope someone reads it........lol!
I know I often jump over long posts......lol!
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Is this all things you believe you got to do to be saved? Do you know ANYONE thats saved? Cause if this list is the end all be all, then not only am I not saved, I dont know a SINGLE PERSON who is. And I know hundreds of Christians. Not a ONE is saved!
This is quite a list, and seems like a tough act to follow! This again is what I mean by "his commands are not grievous" "my yoke is easy and my burden is light".... reading through that list, while its backed with Scripture. DONT SEEM LIGHT OR EASY TO ME. SEems rather grievous!
This is quite a list, and seems like a tough act to follow! This again is what I mean by "his commands are not grievous" "my yoke is easy and my burden is light".... reading through that list, while its backed with Scripture. DONT SEEM LIGHT OR EASY TO ME. SEems rather grievous!
The compassion of Jesus was to heal and in doing so set a person free.
You have no compassion.
If I came to you to talk about my severe gambling problem my guess is you would say "Obey Jesus"
You would not even give two hoots as to why.
Jesus came for people like me. To bring healing and release to be set free to walk as I should be and help others.
I'm talking about the compassion Jesus has for us and what we should have for others.
You
Shame you do not get it.
You just tell them to obey, even though you state the compassion of Jesus above.
Glad I'm not in the church you go to.
You have no compassion.
If I came to you to talk about my severe gambling problem my guess is you would say "Obey Jesus"
You would not even give two hoots as to why.
Jesus came for people like me. To bring healing and release to be set free to walk as I should be and help others.
I'm talking about the compassion Jesus has for us and what we should have for others.
You
Shame you do not get it.
You just tell them to obey, even though you state the compassion of Jesus above.
Glad I'm not in the church you go to.
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So you still have a gambling problem and say you have been saved how long?
If all else fail, follow directions. Jesus came and taught us the Way.
Why do you speak against me like that?
And, isn't it obvious why people have gambling problems?
So you are not gambling anymore? Does that mean you obeyed?
Out of your own mouth.
If all else fail, follow directions. Jesus came and taught us the Way.
Why do you speak against me like that?
And, isn't it obvious why people have gambling problems?
So you are not gambling anymore? Does that mean you obeyed?
Out of your own mouth.
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Hahhahahahahahahahahhahhaha wow man.....this statement takes the cake wow.......
They BELIEVE IN GOD but have NO SAVING FAITH....same problem the Jews have to this very day....
Man....you have a lot to learn if you believe the drivel you posted above about the demons and using shuddering as works....
They BELIEVE IN GOD but have NO SAVING FAITH....same problem the Jews have to this very day....
Man....you have a lot to learn if you believe the drivel you posted above about the demons and using shuddering as works....
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Hearts are purified by faith. (Acts 15:9) Are you seeking salvation based on the merits of your best efforts to follow rules and guidelines/works or through faith in Christ?
You are correct about the Catholic church. Obedience to Christ does not include salvation by works (John 6:28-29)
Cambellism teaches a 5 step false plan of salvation which culminates in water baptism for salvation. So where do you attend church?
Believers love because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) The love of God has been poured out within the hearts of believers through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)
It's actually you who misunderstands and this is the same error that is made in Catholicism and Campbellism in an effort to "get around" verses like Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8,9 etc.. The end result is saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. The Bible clearly statess in Titus 3:5 that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, (Literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the false doctrine of meritorious works for salvation, yet you (just like Roman Catholics and Campbellites) try to explain it away in order to teach salvation by works. You are on very dangerous ground!
Authentic faith is not without repentance and that is not what I mean by salvation through faith in Christ alone. Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
You are correct about the Catholic church. Obedience to Christ does not include salvation by works (John 6:28-29)
Cambellism teaches a 5 step false plan of salvation which culminates in water baptism for salvation. So where do you attend church?
Believers love because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19) The love of God has been poured out within the hearts of believers through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. (Romans 5:5) Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. (1 John 4:7)
It's actually you who misunderstands and this is the same error that is made in Catholicism and Campbellism in an effort to "get around" verses like Titus 3:5, Ephesians 2:8,9 etc.. The end result is saved by "these" works and just not "those" works. The Bible clearly statess in Titus 3:5 that it is not by works of righteousness which we have done, (Literally, "of works which are done in righteousness") and this passage fully refutes the false doctrine of meritorious works for salvation, yet you (just like Roman Catholics and Campbellites) try to explain it away in order to teach salvation by works. You are on very dangerous ground!
Authentic faith is not without repentance and that is not what I mean by salvation through faith in Christ alone. Those who have placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation have already repented in the process of changing their mind and choosing to place their faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.
...The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.” Deuteronomy 6:24-25
The Gentiles were never given the LAW for their righteousness but received mercy and grace as a result of the DISOBEDIENCE of the Jews.
All Israel Will Be Saved
...I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Romans 11:25-32
Now, if anyone would teach a FALSE GOSPEL which disregards OBEDIENCE TO GOD as an essential part of SALVATION, disregards LOVE which according to John is "WALKING IN OBEDIENCE TO HIS COMMANDS" and that God is LOVE. (2 John 1:6, 1 John 4:8-16)
And Paul testified that LOVE is the GREATEST;
...And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13
And therefore God showed His LOVE for us by sending His only begotten Son to die on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins and to bring SALVATION to mankind. (John 3:16, 1 John 4:8-16)
"LOVE" IS THE MESSAGE OF THE CROSS.
...This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because HIS OWN ACTIONS were evil and his brother’s were RIGHTEOUS. Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that NO MURDERER HAS ETERNAL LIFE IN HIM. This is how we know what love is: JESUS CHRIST LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR US. And WE OUGHT TO LAY DOWN OUR LIVES FOR OUR BROTHERS. 1 John 3:11-16
GRACE, MERCY, SALVATION are all the WORKS of God who is LOVE.
Is it Faith ALONE that saves?
...You see that a person is justified by what he does and NOT BY FAITH ALONE. James 2:24
...The only thing that counts is FAITH EXPRESSING ITSELF THROUGH LOVE. You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from OBEYING THE TRUTH? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. Galatians 5:6-10
...IF ANYONE TEACHES FALSE DOCTRINES and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS ABOUT WORDS that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been ROBBED OF THE TRUTH and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5
...I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD by what I have said and done— Romans 15:18
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