Not By Works

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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Assumptions can invalidate what one is saying.
A flat earther is not difficult to understand, but their delusion and conviction does not mean that
we accept it. It can be explained very clearly, it is still nuts.

Jesus said if you follow His words you are building your house upon a rock. Why do some find
these words so hard to understand? Maybe because they do not believe them.

But if they do not believe them, they are not His sheep and so are not given eternal life and saved.
As we read in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. *Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus, as demonstrated by those in false religions and cults.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
Makes my Heart sing....:love:

After all the nonsense recently posted against our wonderful God


For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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As we read in Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as some would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome. One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands. The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses.

Those deceived by their own self-righteousness in Matthew 7:22-23 were "outwardly" doing all the things that the righteous would do yet they did not truly know Christ (had no personal relationship with Christ) which stemmed from not truly believing in Him. Matthew 7:21 - Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in Him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. *Seeking to obtain salvation by works is not the will of the Father. The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness.

*Only those who truly believe in Him are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. *The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus, as demonstrated by those in false religions and cults.
Not sure what you are trying to say.
A simple way of looking at this is listening to Jesus.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
Matt 7:24

But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand.
Matt 7:26

The point of difference is listening and doing, the wise put the words into practise, the fools do not.
Your self righteousness addition is just that, your own adding.

As Paul describes, without the Spirit we could not follow and obey, because it is Christ within us
crying Abba Father, that empowers us.

And I am not surprised when those who fail to obey or see Jesus's words invent their own excuses.
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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I dont know this man, nor do I know much of what he teaches ive only seen two videos, BUT: I believe this particular video he is quite fair and unbiased and covers the topic quite well, harmonizing Scriptures:


I also like the look, thats a cool beard! I wish the new generation would pick up on that.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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What are you talking about?

I said people were disciplined and gave you scriptures.

1 Corinthians 11:17 In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18 In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19 No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20 So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!
Sorry, was too tired at 1:30 am to keep on.

But in giving you this next instruction I do not praise you, because when you meet together it does more harm than good! 18 For, in the first place, I hear that when you gather together as a congregation you divide up into cliques; and to a degree I believe it 19 (granted that there must be some divisions among you in order to show who are the ones in the right). 20

In another scripture, Paul says that some were eating their own private dinners, not waiting for all. That's out of the Hebrew translation.

The unity of the body is what God wants. When we are United as one in the Lord, without division, we will then receive the benefits of our salvation. Not discerning the body as one.

But, I do believe the prophets. And soon we will see large gatherings with many miracles taking place. They already are in other places. America is behind?

We should ask ourselves why?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus

This sentence is actually longer than Jesus's words.

"hears these words of mine and puts them into practice" matt 7:24
"hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice" matt 7:26

Do you practice or not practice?

I have never met an unbeliever who says, yes I put Jesus's words into practice.
I do hear "believers" say, Jesus's words are impossible. I myself have felt this also.

So whatever this twisting is, it is just excusing ones own position over Jesus's simple commands.
Being honest, one would declare it is a very difficult sermon to follow or fully understand.

Some would hold Jesus is teaching pacificism. Others that we are to live a life of monasticism.
Some it is just an impossible target said to make us feel bad so we rest on Jesus more.
Some would say the calling to be perfect is crazy, or loving your enemies, not judging etc.

It is a wonder in which we need to dwell and let the words become part of who we are.
Jesus said it like this

If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
John 15:7-8

Knowing Gods way and will is central to following Him. Clearly many do not believe this.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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Not sure what you are trying to say.
I am not surprised. Only those who truly believe in Jesus are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. We must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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...TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU...Matthew 28:18-20

Who are CLAIMING that they who BELIEVE in Christ and are SAVED, are the ones who truly OBEY?

Why do they attack those who OBEY Christ's command to teach OBEDIENCE to his commands instead of teaching OBEDIENCE to His commands as the verses CLEARLY state?

It's because they do not really BELIEVE Christ who spoke those words and their defiance proves it. They would rather BELIEVE and OBEY FALSE MAN MADE DOCTRINES....for they loved praise from men more than praise from God. John 12:42-43

The itsy TWISTY spider...

...For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. THEY ARE GODLESS MEN, WHO CHANGE THE GRACE OF OF OUR GOD INTO A LICENSE FOR IMMORALITY and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:4

...They claim to know God, but by THEIR ACTIONS they DENY Him. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT for doing anything good. Titus 1:16

Look who's talking about HONESTY.

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is A LIAR, AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Do you not CALL EVIL GOOD and GOOD EVIL? (Isaiah 5:20-24)

Is it RIGHT to OBEY God? Is it GOOD or is it WRONG and EVIL? If it is RIGHT and GOOD, why do you call those who promote OBEDIENCE TO GOD as FALSE or peddlers of a FALSE GOSPEL?

Do you not insult and call the views of those who promote OBEDIENCE to God as IDIOTIC?

It's funny how your group can say that only genuine believers would OBEY God and those who promote OBEDIENCE to God are LOST, UNBELIEVERS, FALSE, DECEIVER, NOT SAVED TO BEGIN WITH and many other discriminating NEGATIVE remarks.

And when you are called out, you will accuse them of SLANDER and start bullying those who disagree with you to the point of getting them banned to SUPPRESS THE TRUTH which no NOSAS ever did.

But scriptures fortold of these kind of people and behaviour.

.. Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires.” These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit. Jude 1:14-19

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

...Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. HE WHO DOES WHAT IS RIGHT IS RIGHTEOUS, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

IS IT RIGHT TO OBEY GOD or not?

Are you an instrument of God's righteousness or do you just BELIEVE and let God do everything for you?

Who now is the LORD, you?...and who is your servant, GOD?

....“You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘IT IS FUTILE TO SERVE GOD. What did we gain by CARRYING OUT HIS REQUIREMENTS and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then THOSE WHO FEARED THE LORD talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I WILL SPARE THEM, just as in compassion a man spares HIS SON WHO SERVES HIM. And you will again see the DISTINCTION between the RIGHTEOUS and the WICKED, between those who SERVE GOD and those who do not. Malachi 3:13-18

...God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD. 2 Corinthians 5:21[

...I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God. I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in LEADING THE GENTILES TO OBEY GOD BY WHAT I HAVE SAID AND DONE— Romans 15:15-18
Why are you teaching what men must do under the old covenant, rather than the inheritance of the new?
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I am not surprised. Only those who truly believe in Jesus are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them. We must not confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
Hi mmd,

I am a simple believer. There are lots of people who hold many different positions to justify themselves
against another group which they define as their enemy. And to do this they add to scripture and do not
listen to Jesus.

If you put Jesus's words into action amen. If not the building will collapse when the storms come.
Why do I believe this? Because I have been through storms, I have had much weakness and battering,
and still the Lord has kept me. It is this issue, having our roots in Him, knowing who He is and following
His ways.

Jesus is a teacher of behaving as He lays out, changes us. It is like the fruit shows what we have done,
which means we walk deeper. One sin, leads to another, and the more we are lost and destroyed.
One step of faith, leads to another and the more we are saved and walking into eternal life everlasting.
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I dont know this man, nor do I know much of what he teaches ive only seen two videos, BUT: I believe this particular video he is quite fair and unbiased and covers the topic quite well, harmonizing Scriptures:


I also like the look, thats a cool beard! I wish the new generation would pick up on that.
I like this guy, he puts the case very well.

Some are a third group beyond following Jesus, and claim still to be saved.
They are truly deluded as they are not sheep as they do not follow, and yet claim
eternal life and that Jesus has changed them, except they hate His words.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
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There is no wrong motive to obey Jesus.


Yes there is.


John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 If you love Me, you will keep My commands.


Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit. [Primary Spiritual Fruit is LOVE, see, Gal. 5:22]
21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven. [Only those who have Agape Love for him will inter the kingdom of heaven.]
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ [.They did all those deeds for the wrong motive.]
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
[.They were not motivated to do those deeds with GODLY LOVE FOR JESUS, known as AGAPE LOVE.}
 

stonesoffire

Poetic Member
Nov 24, 2013
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I can see how you get to your conclusion. But it is just that, a conclusion.
If it is possible to not stay in faith, to stumble, to be lost, then we are not spirit, we have a spirit.

Let me just pursue this idea. I have been transformed equally as yourself. So why do I disagree with
you, and find I can follow, love and fulfil in love the promise Jesus provides. And why do people hate
me so much, just declaring following is possible, not perfectly, not saying I have achieved being perfect
like Jesus, but following.

The reason is because it is a deception, and makes enemies from people who claim to know Jesus yet
refuse to follow, or listen to Him or know what continual repentance and grace really are.

The foundation of Jesus is simple. Do you love His commands? Do you see life in them?
Do they force you to face the need for cleansing within, and struggling with passions and direction?

If the answer is no, then you need to discover who Jesus is, and humble yourself before the cross.
There is no other way to enter heaven. The reality of who we are before Him is an eternal one,
and you are lost and blind unless you see this. It is why Jesus came, and submitted to death.
If you did not kill Jesus, then your sin cannot be atoned for. It is by recognising our sin, personally,
put Him there and He said, Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing, gives us
forgiveness, real, total forgiveness, so we can walk in His ways.
I do not disagree that the Word corrects as we read it. But, Holy Spirit is He who shines the light on the darkness. He does it gently and removes it in the right timing for us individually. The very reason why we should not judge one another for we all have our weaknesses and habits of our former life to put to the death of the Cross of Jesus.

What we all are disagreeing with is it is the obedience of faith in the actions of God to save humanity. Faith is primary and is what pleases God. True faith eventually will be fruitful and cause godly actions.

Not the actions saves, but believing God is truth. Jesus said He is the way, truth and life. We will never be able to save ourselves by anything we do. For the first command is we must be born again. The beginning of life in the Spirit, no longer of flesh. That's the position that's instantaneous, yet worked out as we walk with Him.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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GG101,

There is no Matthew 4:26 or 27. I think you made a mistake when referring to the scriptures.....:unsure:
Matthew 4:24-25:

And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them. And there followed him great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jerusalem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordan.
Thanks L,,,,I appreciate it.
but I posted the above at least three times....@Dcontroversial knows what verses I mean...
he just won't reply to them. (matthew 7)

Strange for a biblical study thread....
 

Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,886
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Thanks L,,,,I appreciate it.
but I posted the above at least three times....@Dcontroversial knows what verses I mean...
he just won't reply to them. (matthew 7)

Strange for a biblical study thread....
I was pretty sure it was a mistake but, what were the scriptures you meant to refer to? I'd like to read them.

Btw, I like your signature line. I don't have one........perhaps I should have one........:unsure:
 

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2019
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I do not disagree that the Word corrects as we read it. But, Holy Spirit is He who shines the light on the darkness. He does it gently and removes it in the right timing for us individually. The very reason why we should not judge one another for we all have our weaknesses and habits of our former life to put to the death of the Cross of Jesus.

What we all are disagreeing with is it is the obedience of faith in the actions of God to save humanity. Faith is primary and is what pleases God. True faith eventually will be fruitful and cause godly actions.

Not the actions saves, but believing God is truth. Jesus said He is the way, truth and life. We will never be able to save ourselves by anything we do. For the first command is we must be born again. The beginning of life in the Spirit, no longer of flesh. That's the position that's instantaneous, yet worked out as we walk with Him.
There are many layers of issues being talked about on this thread.
Trying to discern who has what and where they stand is not obvious or really possible.

"What we all are disagreeing ...."

People hold very different positions on various subjects. Others are very able to create
false impressions about positions people hold and why they hold what they do believe.

"the first command is we must be born again"

This is an interesting idea. It is not biblical, as we cannot choose to be born again.
We can repent of our sins, humble ourselves, accept Gods forgiveness for our sins through
the cross and put our faith in Jesus and commit to follow Him. Some would call this being
born again, except only God makes us born again through a work of the Holy Spirit.

And on these very principles some show signs of not being born again, by simply declaring
they are not following Jesus or have any desire to be like Him.
 

GodsGrace101

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2018
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I believe this is something everyone should read! Especially those of you who are in charge of a family!

https://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/this-is-the-last-righteous-generation/

TRUE WORDS! ITS A DIFFERENT TIME PEOPLE.
Thanks for posting this H...
I was worried about this many, many years ago.
The worst thing back then was chldren getting a copy of Playboy,,,or even viewing it since copies were left right by the cash register of my neighborhood. I asked the owner to remove them from that position, but he said no one except me complained about it.

We're in a mess and I fear to think where we're headed.
Is is Pompeii time again or will Jesus return?