Not By Works

[GodsGrace101]

I was pretty sure it was a mistake but, what were the scriptures you meant to refer to? I'd like to read them.

Btw, I like your signature line. I don't have one........perhaps I should have one........

I like pretty things...it makes me feel nice.

The verses were Matthew 7:24-27.
I wonder if everyone here knows that OSAS didn't even exist till about 500 years ago....
It's not only a new doctrine, but I feel it's a very corrupting doctrine to Christianity. No amount of verses will be considered by those that believe this concept....it's like we need it for some reason I don't understand. I'm a believer in eternal security if I adhere to its conditions. Believe in Jesus,,,obey His word and we will be saved. What's the problem with this??? I do believe Christianity is being watered down till one day we won't even recognize it or be different from everyone else walking this earth that do not know Christ.


Context
The Two Foundations
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

 

[GodsGrace101]

I do not disagree that the Word corrects as we read it. But, Holy Spirit is He who shines the light on the darkness. He does it gently and removes it in the right timing for us individually. The very reason why we should not judge one another for we all have our weaknesses and habits of our former life to put to the death of the Cross of Jesus.

What we all are disagreeing with is it is the obedience of faith in the actions of God to save humanity. Faith is primary and is what pleases God. True faith eventually will be fruitful and cause godly actions.

Not the actions saves, but believing God is truth. Jesus said He is the way, truth and life. We will never be able to save ourselves by anything we do. For the first command is we must be born again. The beginning of life in the Spirit, no longer of flesh. That's the position that's instantaneous, yet worked out as we walk with Him.

Everyone here believes they are born again.

So what's the difference between us?

What is this idea of SAVING OURSELVES???
It's a ridiculous idea that is a strawman.
Used by those that do not feel obedience is important....

 

[GodsGrace101]

Why are you teaching what men must do under the old covenant, rather than the inheritance of the new?

Please tell us all what the difference is between the Old Covenant and the new Covenant....

Did Jesus come to abolish the law?
What is the law?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Thanks for posting this H...
I was worried about this many, many years ago.
The worst thing back then was chldren getting a copy of Playboy,,,or even viewing it since copies were left right by the cash register of my neighborhood. I asked the owner to remove them from that position, but he said no one except me complained about it.

We're in a mess and I fear to think where we're headed.
Is is Pompeii time again or will Jesus return?

I think the trouble with all addictions, is some are more susceptible than others.
The fact that people are more isolated and less functional in caring communities has led to
social withdrawal and sexual fantasies. It turns out that constant pornographic exposure
changes the structure of the brain and our attitudes to others, including God.

What is sad is when you meet people who are consummed with sexual addiction 24/7.
It eats their whole soul away. But it is not the majority, but like a lot of things it is hidden.
In some cultures like Japan, the virtual world is becoming more important to many men
than real relationships with people.

Churches when they are full of people who have come out of such things are often much
better placed to see how God transcends these things, and how in the Spirit we can be
over comers. If we ground ourselves emotionally and spiritually in the Holy Spirit and
Jesus, with an open heart and knowing love and responsibility, we are set free.

Listening to some who admit they are bound to sin and their hearts cannot be touched,
it would not surprise me is this is what their souls are crying out about in the hope
of resolution and healing.

Dear Jesus, Help us to share the gospel of hope and freedom, that we might see people
brought into the Kingdom and the shackles of addiction broken, In the Name of Jesus
Christ of Nazareth Amen

 

[mailmandan]

The foolish man twists the words of Jesus and acts on their own self-righteous works system and calls that acting on the words of Jesus

This sentence is actually longer than Jesus's words.

"hears these words of mine and puts them into practice" matt 7:24
"hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice" matt 7:26

Do you practice or not practice?

I have never met an unbeliever who says, yes I put Jesus's words into practice.
I do hear "believers" say, Jesus's words are impossible. I myself have felt this also.

So whatever this twisting is, it is just excusing ones own position over Jesus's simple commands.

Enough with the strawman arguments. Yes I do hear the words of Jesus and practice them, yet I’ve heard many unbelievers from various false religions and cults claim to do the same, yet pervert the gospel.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

 

[cv5]

The absolute truth....those that peddle obedience and a self maintained losable salvation are some of the most dishonest and non obedient people I have ever met....no integrity either.....

The trajectory is inevitable. A cultic man/works centered abomination.
Quiet confident patient and obedient faith is the proper response and lifestyle.....

 

[stonesoffire]

Please tell us all what the difference is between the Old Covenant and the new Covenant....

Did Jesus come to abolish the law?
What is the law?

The Old Testament is an agreement between Israel and God. The New Covenant is an inheritance or the will, given by Yeshua (salvation) to His body. Actually available to all, but thats another topic.

Both require faith in sacrificial blood. The first is natural, the second spiritual. Which are you obeying? Natural or spiritual?

Why do you continually ask this question? It's been answered in all posts by all.

 

[stonesoffire]

Everyone here believes they are born again.

So what's the difference between us?

What is this idea of SAVING OURSELVES???
It's a ridiculous idea that is a strawman.
Used by those that do not feel obedience is important....

No one says obedience isn't important. We define it differently.

The body of Jesus Christ is nothing like Israel and law.

 

[stonesoffire]

There are many layers of issues being talked about on this thread.
Trying to discern who has what and where they stand is not obvious or really possible.

"What we all are disagreeing ...."

People hold very different positions on various subjects. Others are very able to create
false impressions about positions people hold and why they hold what they do believe.

"the first command is we must be born again"

This is an interesting idea. It is not biblical, as we cannot choose to be born again.
We can repent of our sins, humble ourselves, accept Gods forgiveness for our sins through
the cross and put our faith in Jesus and commit to follow Him. Some would call this being
born again, except only God makes us born again through a work of the Holy Spirit.

And on these very principles some show signs of not being born again, by simply declaring
they are not following Jesus or have any desire to be like Him.

All that the Father gives to me will come to me. And He who comes to me, I will in no wise cast out.

Did we choose Him? Or did He choose us. Not trying to create a rabbit trail though. This is just my answer to your posting only.

Also, Jesus said we must be born again. The natural man will not enter heaven.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Enough with the strawman arguments. Yes I do hear the words of Jesus and practice them, yet I’ve heard many unbelievers from various false religions and cults claim to do the same, yet pervert the gospel.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

I am not trying to be aggressive my friend.
You like long answers to things, and I appreciate your commitment.

I do wonder what people hear when I say, God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life?
Am I being a self righteous person or just saying the words of God?

If righteousness is an evil thing, and desiring to walk like Jesus deception, the people saying such
do not listen to Jesus. I just want to listen to Jesus and encourage others to do likewise.
So be encouraged brother that we are destined to heaven to meet Him in the sky and it is our
great privilege to walk in His ways rejoicing in His presence day after day, Amen.

 

[YourTruthGod]

You said the blood is from an animal and I told you are mistaken because the Hebrew tells you something else. How is this relevant? Without the Hebrew the Bible is open for interpretation. If you include the Hebrew it is not.

You are stumped and say anything.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

No one says obedience isn't important. We define it differently.
The body of Jesus Christ is nothing like Israel and law.

Hi stones,

"No one says obedience isn't important"
Funnily when someone calls one evil for talking about the role of obedience in our lives
with Christ, they are denying obedience matters and are saying by implication they cannot obey.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I am not disputing sacrifices, I am telling you for that verse you had the source of the blood wrong. You also said we do not have to study the Hebrew and the point I was trying to make was that if you understood the Hebrew you would have known you are making a mistake. The Hebrew (just like the English) is still relevant to us today.

Prove it that I have the source of the blood wrong.
And while you are at it, prove we have to learn Hebrew.
You will never ever find any such lie as that in the Bible.

 

[stonesoffire]

There are many layers of issues being talked about on this thread.
Trying to discern who has what and where they stand is not obvious or really possible.

"What we all are disagreeing ...."

People hold very different positions on various subjects. Others are very able to create
false impressions about positions people hold and why they hold what they do believe.

"the first command is we must be born again"

This is an interesting idea. It is not biblical, as we cannot choose to be born again.
We can repent of our sins, humble ourselves, accept Gods forgiveness for our sins through
the cross and put our faith in Jesus and commit to follow Him. Some would call this being
born again, except only God makes us born again through a work of the Holy Spirit.

And on these very principles some show signs of not being born again, by simply declaring
they are not following Jesus or have any desire to be like Him.

Who has declared your last sentence? This is your assumption based on your natural thinking.

It is God who starts...it is God who finishes our salvation....until the "day".

 

[stonesoffire]

Hi stones,

"No one says obedience isn't important"
Funnily when someone calls one evil for talking about the role of obedience in our lives
with Christ, they are denying obedience matters and are saying by implication they cannot obey.

No, follow. The problem is making it laws. Not of faith.

 

[YourTruthGod]

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works.

*James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14)

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

What you are saying is not what the scriptures say. The scriptures are plain. Even the demons believe and do something, they shudder. That is proof faith alone is dead.

 

[stonesoffire]

Plus not even speaking of being led by Holy Spirit. Hearing His Voice. Sheep hear.

But, we the body are being made Sons.

Like a blip in time that eventually will close, then Israel, the nation, picks up again.

 

[stonesoffire]

Follow, GG101

Who and why did Paul call false brethren in the book of Galatians?

 

[FollowHisSteps]

No, follow. The problem is making it laws. Not of faith.

What do you mean, because this sentence is not clear? Sorry

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Galatians is so miss-quoted. The circumcision group were saying you must abide by being a jew to be
a believer.

And because of this dispute, those who hold lawlessness, claim to hold to the law of the Spirit is to
be of the circumcision group while they are the true believers. Anyone who argues like this is literally
against Jesus. Jesus brought us victory through love in our lives that we obey and fulfil the law and
so cannot be judged by it.

And Paul talking of the law linked to circumcision means being a jew, and the temple etc.
I mention this because I do not believe all take this position or even know it. More likely just going
along with the crowd who are my brothers and sisters. But we follow Jesus not them.