Men of CC, I have questions...(Women can weigh in too)

Ok...Hi y'all. I haven't been super active here in a while but after reading a post recently, I decided I wanted to ask you all some questions. I want to have an honest conversation about MGTOW.

The wiki definition of MGTOW is..."MGTOW (”Men Going Their Own Way”) is a way of life which refuses to defer to women in defining the worth of men. Instead, it focuses on positive male aspects, inviting men to go their own way in life."

That seems innocent enough but my experience with MGTOW has not been positive. I have seen some seriously hateful, extreme sides of mgtow. It is the same with feminism, that it why at a surface level I am not a supporter of feminism.

Question 1: Do you think it is biblical to support/believe in mgtow?

Question 2: Do you believe it is a generally positive movement?

Question 3: If you follow mgtow, is it because you dislike women and why?

Personally, I am not a general fan of things that divide us by gender and age or anything else. I feel we should be united brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm just trying to understand. I am fully aware this may lead to some off putting comments. My hope is we have a kind, honest conversation about this.

I didn't know there was such a movement.

I've got to think about this a bit and see how others answer this too.

As much as I dislike feminism...I think MGTOW is even worse! Why, you ask? Because most feminists at least know they need men. MGTOWs act like they don't need women at all. Where the heck do they think they came from?

1. I think it is biblical if done correctly because even if you're married you shouldn't be too dependent on your wife, doing so could cause idols.

2. I don't think most of these are generally positive because most people aren't positive so yea.....

3. I would agree as i said earlier but I like women and still want to be married. I don't think this would effect mean and women negatively, if done correctly, because it doesn't necessarily say anything wrong, I want to be able to be defined by Christ not my wife. With that being said I'd love to be married and want to respect and love my wife but being defined by people is probably never good, unless it's Jesus.

I guess that's it dont get too discouraged with people a lot are just frustrated or some have just been hurt too much so they lash out don't let it get to you. Women are still great xD.

MGTOW is pretty much a REACTIONARY movement to 3rd wave feminism.

The Problem:
Because 3rd wave feminism is so loud, and so toxic, we now live in a culture where men can genuinely be taken advantage of by women, in pretty serious ways.
There are many horror stories, and they're quite common.

Often a man gets messed over by some manipulative woman, then he finds the court unfairly favors the woman, and then just when he thinks it can't get any worse, everyone he knows will take the woman's side, and the man ends up losing everything he has.
This is real, and it happens all the time.
So, men now have a sort of reactionary movement.

However, to be part of this movement, you have to put a fair amount of energy into being angry and bitter.

Christian Response:
As a Christian man, you have to recognize that God's children aren't promised an easy life.
We are told to follow God, serve him, and do right... period.
Bitterness is a non-option.
Bad things are going to happen to ALL of us... that's life in a fallen world.
No matter WHO you are, somebody is going to take advantage of you... that's the world we're in.
We are commanded to love, forgive, etc etc...

...

Never heard of it.
And while I agree it's best to not focus so much on our differences, there are differences and that should not be ignored.
A lot of these movements may start with good intentions, but get hijacked by people twisting it.
I think in an age where masculinity is under fire it makes sense such movements would form. And since there are various movements by women that reflects a bigger issue than one for males.
Consider the movement that popped up a while back where "women treat men like men treat women" and were randomly getting with guys and not showing up for dates and worse things. Even guys that were good to women were falling victim to this bitterness since it was random and not focused on disreputable guys.
Usually any movement, no matter how well intended, gets taken over by jerks. Even christianity hasn't been immune.

as a Christian, I have never heard of MGTOW, but I decided to do some research from a reputable site: https://www.gotquestions.org/MGTOW.html

which is thankfully a safe Christian website to visit

gq.org have stated: MGTOW correctly identifies some problems in society—the blurring of gender lines, for instance—and responds in the wrong way. ... Many MGTOW men may have been hurt in the past; some have undoubtedly been treated unfairly, but the answer is not to embrace selfishness, cultivate anger, turn against women, and relinquish responsibility. The answer is forgiveness in Jesus Christ.

I think the MGTOW movement has some valid points in regards to the current "dating scene", but it can also have pretty extreme views that tend to generalize women a little too much in my opinion.

one thing out of many, too many to list about feminism, is this, their misuse of the word "culture"

last time I checked on google

cul·ture
/ˈkəlCHər/
noun
noun: culture

1. 1.
   the arts and other manifestations of human intellectual achievement regarded collectively.
   "20th century popular culture"
   synonyms:the arts, the humanities, intellectual achievement;
   literature, music, painting, philosophy, the performing arts
   "exposing their children to culture"
   

notice the word "human intellectual achievement"

they have most certainly misused the word "culture"

No matter how upset I was, I could never join MGTOW and swear off women.

They smell too nice, lol.


...

I've been aware of the MGTOW movement for a couple of years. I came across it through the men's rights movement (MRA's the A for Advocate), which in turn I came across after finding a video on manipulation.

Generally, I find MGTOW to have a heavily anti-woman bias. Most of the videos I've listened to on the subject are bitter and hateful towards women generally, and much of the material is vitriolic... but not all.

Some MGTOW advocates are simply disgusted with the relational behaviour of many women, and find it safer emotionally, financially, and legally to avoid entanglements beyond perhaps casual dating. The lines here get blurry between MGTOW and MRA. The American legal system in particular, and to a lesser extent the Canadian, is so skewed in favour of women/wives/mothers that in many ways, men really are safer on their own. I could go on, but I want to focus on the thread questions.

Question 1: Do you think it is biblical to support/believe in mgtow?

Basically, no, not as the secular movement goes. It's a sinful reaction to a sinful problem. I think that the system is badly broken, but avoiding relationships while perpetuating stereotypes is flawed. Refusing long term relationships while engaging in casual sex (which some MGTOW's advocate) is of course unacceptable for any Christian.

Question 2: Do you believe it is a generally positive movement?

No. However, I share many experiences with those who have chosen this route, so I understand why many men would choose it. If something goes haywire in a relationship, it is very likely that the man will get burned. For those who don't have a relationship with Jesus, and aside from the issues noted above, it is perhaps the safest option for men.

Question 3: If you follow mgtow, is it because you dislike women and why?

I don't. I haven't come across many true misogynists in the movement; just men who are bitter from getting the very short end of the stick. It's understandable that men who have been badly hurt will avoid, be wary, and warn others about what hurt them.

I think there is more to be said, but I'll leave it there for now.

Had no knowledge of mgtow until now but knowin’ there’s feminism it’s expected to have something equivalent.

I’m not male so there’s that but I’ll answer from my perspective.

#1 It’s not biblical. I mean, literally it’s not there. People can twist the bible all they want to come up with whatever but the bible never mentioned about a man’s worth being defined by a woman so there’s that.

#2 I’m finding it rather repetitive for mankind to fix a problem with something they come up with and use the same fix for non problems. I mean, I’d assume MGTOW was borne out of some abusive relationship or some men getting tired of always being forced to conform to the women ideals (especially in a largely feminist modern world). It’s positive in that note but like everything else, there’s always harmful effects of whatever when used too much.

Just like every other good intention, it can be good for men who need it but can be extreme and cause issues too.

and they can make you feel as innocent as angels, and it's lovely to be in their company

first, I know very little about mgtow, but I know of bible verse like
"in your anger do not sin, do not let the sun go down in your anger"

and "be careful not to cause stumbling blocks for others", and the millstone verse

for question 3, let's break the question apart
If (which is "conditional") you follow mgtow, is it (the answer can be yes or no) because you dislike women and why?
my answer for question 3 is, "no" unless if I unknowingly follow it out of ignorance, because I have little to no idea what MGTOW is,

and since that question doesn't apply to me, just from the "if" part of the question alone, I would not be able to answer that question to your satisfaction, and I hope my inability to answer toward your satisfaction is not misogynistic in any way, by the way, I can take a break and make a sandwich for myself, and perhaps share some virtual sandwich of your choice to you.

Ahh man, I'm not gonna say any more about this...
or people will start thinking I have feelings.

...

here are some aspects we find the idea of relationships to be desirable: chill (relaxing) and intimate

healthy

hopefully these traits are considered pure and sinless

if it's pure and sinless? good, then we have an alternative that can help a lot of men overcome (with God's help of course) the most famous sin that have plagued mankind for millennias.

As a woman who has been through a divorce, I understand how the court system is definitely skewed towards women. I do not understand manipulative women that do this. I think, on a personal level, I dislike being lumped into this group of women by MGTOW. I am a very different woman. I want my kids to be with their dad because I love my children. I don't want to take all of his money because I want my children's dad to be in a good place. If I didn't have kids, it isn't Christ like, imo to get revenge through a court system. I, absolutely, disagree with that sort of behavior.

I. also, think this problem was created during the times when women were treated unfairly. Now, though, the pendulum of the problem has swung widely in the other direction leading to men being treated very unfairly.

This is fantastic.

Because humans are a fallen race, it's our nature to take advantage of each other.
Whoever has an upper hand, or an opportunity, will generally take advantage of others.

This has only been going on... oh... forever, lol.

...

Wait...really? I hadn't noticed.

Seriously, though, you are right. Right now, feminism has gotten to the point of "equality" meaning "we aren't happy until you submit to us oh and that means I'd like to shove your face into the ground and stab my heel into your back". It's unbiblical, and pretty much disgusting. I don't know about most of the women here but I don't want that AT all.