Men of CC, I have questions...(Women can weigh in too)

[maxwel]

My point was really in response to you talking about the pendulum swinging.
That's exactly what has happened, but it's happened because it's very much just part of our fallen nature.

It's kind of terrible when we suddenly see the pendulum swing way too far the other way,
but we shouldn't be surprised by it.

...

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Not sure I understand this? Men want to band together so they won't be beat up by the girls?
idk... sounds like a waste of time since women are smarter, and they text each other when men aren't looking-- sometimes even without a phone I've heard...but-- could be a rumor spread by the dudes who are afraid of women...
and they can be pretty FREEKING scary sometimes....yeah..come on....
seriously-- why wouldn't God give more of His power to the weaker gender?

I'm not trying to be frivolous here, and I'm dealing with some very serious stuff, but, it sounds like they might have misinterpreted the Golden Rule-- This comic often has a serious message under the lighter side of life--
and comic relief can ease stress sometimes.
Here's two guys discussing it...
copyright to: Pearls Before Swine comic, and Stephan Pastis

 

[Pipp]

How could men hate us women??? We're precious !

 

[AbigailZeke]

How could men hate us women??? We're precious !

I heard someone said,

God made women pretty so men marry them.
He also made them dumb so they will marry men.

 

[LittleMermaid]

There is a guy named Aaron Clarey on youtube. If you look him up...beware as he cusses a lot! However, I listen to him sometimes because he makes good points and gives very good truthful advice. He says that MGTOW started off as men who were wronged by women. Now scared virgin guys have taken it over. Guys who want women but are too afraid to do anything about it so they cling to this idea that all women are the same. It's so ridiculous!

He laughs at the movement because he says that instead of trying to get with women...these men just act like they hate them. Kinda like the women who are very unattractive and become man hating feminists. Well they only do that because they've never had a significant other. Feminists and MGTOWs are for the most part the unattractive and unpleasant chunk of each gender.

 

[CharliRenee]

Good question, I think it should be.

MAWGHW = Men and Women Going His Way.

Feminism and MGTOW are rebelling his design, in my humble opinion.

 

[zeroturbulence]

I heard someone said,

God made women pretty so men marry them.
He also made them dumb so they will marry men.

Hi Abby!!

 

[Lynx]

MGTOW made the same mistake many other groups make, lumping people into a group and assuming all the people in that group are the same.

"immigrants are here to steal our jobs!"
"Atheists hate God and want to argue with us Christians at any opportunity!"
(insert claims from any racial group about any racial group they want to have a reason to hate...)
And now... "Women are connivers who are out to sue us and squeeze all they can from us!"

The problem with this, and the reason any of these attitudes cause so much damage, is because people are not interchangeable subsets of a group. I am me. I am part of a few different groups - Caucasian, fast food worker, Pentecostal, minister, nerd, video game beta tester, bread baker - but the definition of me determines what groups I fit into. The groups I fit into don't define me.

I am joining a group called FGTOW, Felines Going Their Own Way. This group has existed for millennia, long before any of your other groups. Felines have always gone their own way and always will.

 

[Daz]

It appears to me to have been built on hurts - there is an undercurrent of hatred towards woman based on men that have been wronged - hurt and hate - instead of love and forgiveness - I feel it clashes with Christian principles and basics required for mental wellbeing

 

[AbigailZeke]

Hi Abby!!

Gabe!!!!!

 

[Adstar]

Ok...Hi y'all. I haven't been super active here in a while but after reading a post recently, I decided I wanted to ask you all some questions. I want to have an honest conversation about MGTOW.

The wiki definition of MGTOW is..."MGTOW (”Men Going Their Own Way”) is a way of life which refuses to defer to women in defining the worth of men. Instead, it focuses on positive male aspects, inviting men to go their own way in life."

That seems innocent enough but my experience with MGTOW has not been positive. I have seen some seriously hateful, extreme sides of mgtow. It is the same with feminism, that it why at a surface level I am not a supporter of feminism.

Question 1: Do you think it is biblical to support/believe in mgtow?

Question 2: Do you believe it is a generally positive movement?

Question 3: If you follow mgtow, is it because you dislike women and why?

Personally, I am not a general fan of things that divide us by gender and age or anything else. I feel we should be united brothers and sisters in Christ. I'm just trying to understand. I am fully aware this may lead to some off putting comments. My hope is we have a kind, honest conversation about this.

MGTOW = Men Going Their Own Way..

Men are going their own way because of the changes to society that have been braught about in the western world since woman obtained the right to vote..

Once woman gained the right to vote then Law makers ( politicians ) had to cater to the femail voter and since woman out number men politicians needed to cater to the wants of woman more then the wants of men..

This situation along with feminism lead to more and more pro- woman laws.. The critical one being in the area of family Law..

No fault divorce came into being.. This allowed woman to initiate divorce much easier..

Divorce laws became totally swayed in favor of woman.. Seeing men stripped of their life savings and home and then to see their beloved Children taken from them and usually a false AVO Apprehended Violence Order. slapped on them to prevent them from seeing their kids ever again..

Sadly it has become way to easy for a man to be destroyed by a woman in this world.. Some men look at the situation and have decided that the risks of marrying / co-habitation with a woman is far to great and have decided to remain single for the rest of their lives..

The feminist push had not stopped and is only becoming more and more extreme.. The Me Too movement now allows any woman to make a sexual assault claim against any guy for even the most trivial of circumstance and that man will have his life destroyed, The mans innocence or guilt is irrelevant. If a woman says something the call is that the woman must be believed and the man is guilty unless he can prove the charge false.. The western civilization concept if Innocence until proven guilty has been thrown out the window because of the demands of feminists..

This leads some men to try to avoid woman completely. Always avoiding being in any place alone with a woman.. Always avoiding conversation or even eye contact with woman.. You know staring at a woman is a form of abuse.. Whats the difference between looking at a woman and staring at her???? That's right a woman who wants to destroy a male work colleague can interpret a look to be a stare and make a complaint and start a process to have that man sacked..

So with this kind of cultural revolution ""Me too"" madness it is not surprising that more and more men in the western world are deciding to opt out of social contact with woman and marriage with woman..

MGTOW men are not men fighting woman .. They are not armed revolutionaries fighting a war .. MGTOW men are more like Ghandi with his Non co-operation movement ..

They are not fighting woman..
They are walking away from woman..

 

[Deade]

I am joining a group called FGTOW, Felines Going Their Own Way. This group has existed for millennia, long before any of your other groups. Felines have always gone their own way and always will.

Yeah, you puddy tats have always been very independent. If you befriend someone, you own them.

 

[Sonflower]

MGTOW = Men Going Their Own Way..

Men are going their own way because of the changes to society that have been braught about in the western world since woman obtained the right to vote..

Once woman gained the right to vote then Law makers ( politicians ) had to cater to the femail voter and since woman out number men politicians needed to cater to the wants of woman more then the wants of men..

This situation along with feminism lead to more and more pro- woman laws.. The critical one being in the area of family Law..

No fault divorce came into being.. This allowed woman to initiate divorce much easier..

Divorce laws became totally swayed in favor of woman.. Seeing men stripped of their life savings and home and then to see their beloved Children taken from them and usually a false AVO Apprehended Violence Order. slapped on them to prevent them from seeing their kids ever again..

Sadly it has become way to easy for a man to be destroyed by a woman in this world.. Some men look at the situation and have decided that the risks of marrying / co-habitation with a woman is far to great and have decided to remain single for the rest of their lives..

The feminist push had not stopped and is only becoming more and more extreme.. The Me Too movement now allows any woman to make a sexual assault claim against any guy for even the most trivial of circumstance and that man will have his life destroyed, The mans innocence or guilt is irrelevant. If a woman says something the call is that the woman must be believed and the man is guilty unless he can prove the charge false.. The western civilization concept if Innocence until proven guilty has been thrown out the window because of the demands of feminists..

This leads some men to try to avoid woman completely. Always avoiding being in any place alone with a woman.. Always avoiding conversation or even eye contact with woman.. You know staring at a woman is a form of abuse.. Whats the difference between looking at a woman and staring at her???? That's right a woman who wants to destroy a male work colleague can interpret a look to be a stare and make a complaint and start a process to have that man sacked..

So with this kind of cultural revolution ""Me too"" madness it is not surprising that more and more men in the western world are deciding to opt out of social contact with woman and marriage with woman..

MGTOW men are not men fighting woman .. They are not armed revolutionaries fighting a war .. MGTOW men are more like Ghandi with his Non co-operation movement ..

They are not fighting woman..
They are walking away from woman..

What bothers me about this post is, you point out the wrongs of feminism but don't point out the wrongs of mgtow.

I agree feminism is out of control. That's one of the many reasons I'm not a feminist. I feel no fault divorce was nessicary in its time. You can't deny women were not treated fairly. They were treated like property, however, nowadays the laws are abused and should be changed. I agree that women should not be able to make fasle accusations without reprimand. There should be serious punishment for that. I, also, agree in innocent until proven guilty. I agree people jump the gun and presume guilt. I am the mother of an 18 year old white male. I want him treated fairly. I've, also, been assaulted in my life, by men. I've learned to accept that I may not get justice. I'm ok with that because I'd rather have a court system that requires proof. I'd rather let a guilty man go free than send an innocent one to prison.

I disagree with the vileness of feminism. I, ALSO, condemn the vile side of mgtow. There are groups that are not just men going their own way. They fight women and call us whores and sluts because they are angry. I think feminism and mgtow both started out with good intentions but have groups that go way too far.

I'm so sad we divide ourselves because of gender. I love people. There are good people, and bad people. I wish we didn't lump all the bad to one gender or the other. It is a heart problem...a sin problem...not a woman or a man problem.

 

[Adstar]

What bothers me about this post is, you point out the wrongs of feminism but don't point out the wrongs of mgtow.

I agree feminism is out of control. That's one of the many reasons I'm not a feminist. I feel no fault divorce was nessicary in its time. You can't deny women were not treated fairly. They were treated like property, however, nowadays the laws are abused and should be changed. I agree that women should not be able to make fasle accusations without reprimand. There should be serious punishment for that. I, also, agree in innocent until proven guilty. I agree people jump the gun and presume guilt. I am the mother of an 18 year old white male. I want him treated fairly. I've, also, been assaulted in my life, by men. I've learned to accept that I may not get justice. I'm ok with that because I'd rather have a court system that requires proof. I'd rather let a guilty man go free than send an innocent one to prison.

I disagree with the vileness of feminism. I, ALSO, condemn the vile side of mgtow. There are groups that are not just men going their own way. They fight women and call us whores and sluts because they are angry. I think feminism and mgtow both started out with good intentions but have groups that go way too far.

I'm so sad we divide ourselves because of gender. I love people. There are good people, and bad people. I wish we didn't lump all the bad to one gender or the other. It is a heart problem...a sin problem...not a woman or a man problem.

My post was given to explain why MGTOW has come about... It was not to explain if MGTOW is good or bad..

So you agree that feminism is out of control.. So you agree with one of my observations about why MGTOW became a thing..

""""I feel no fault divorce was nessicary in its time. You can't deny women were not treated fairly."""" No fault divorce is only needed when a woman wants a divorce in the situation where she is being treated fairly.. If the woman was being battered or her husband was cheating on her she had a reason for divorce and did not need a ""no fault divorce law"" a No fault divorce law is only ever needed when the woman wants a divorce where her hasband has not committed any faults against / upon her..

""" I'm ok with that because I'd rather have a court system that requires proof. I'd rather let a guilty man go free than send an innocent one to prison."""

That's your personal position.. But it is not the position of the feminist activists who have the ear of governement and the media.. Who demand that a woman who claims to have been a victim of abuse from a man MUST be believed.. That is the reality of the system we are now in.. So a man in such a system is playing Russian roulette every day. The more time he spends with random woman at work or at a social event the more chance he has to meet a woman who for what ever reason feels the need to destroy him.. Within the current legal and cultural SJW, BLM, Me Too, hatred for white males cultural revolution,,, your 18 year old son would be well advised to tread very carefully because your son can be destroyed by any woman he may interact with from this day forth..

""" I, ALSO, condemn the vile side of mgtow. There are groups that are not just men going their own way. They fight women and call us whores and sluts because they are angry. """

Don't get MGTOW mixed up with other movements.. True MGTOW men have walked away from woman.. They are not fighting woman anymore.. They are not attacking woman.. They are not in armed combat.. They are like Ghandi they are no longer playing the marriage , family game anymore.. They have given up on all that.. They know the system is stacked against men and are waiting for this feminist cultural revolution to burn itself out... The level of distruction that the feminist movement is bringing upon western society is huge.. The fall of the western culture and society is inevitable because of the war that feminists have decided to wage against what they perceive as the ""evil western patriarchy"" MGTOW are men who are heading to their bunkers and waiting and hoping that they will survive the crash of the western civilization... It's not going to be pretty when things finally collapse.. The feninists will then have no time to worry about a men sitting positions,, man-splaining.. They will be fully concerned about getting enough food to eat because they will be suffering starvation..

 

[maxwel]

MGTOW

In posts #31 and #34 Adstar gave a very good explanation of MGTOW.
I think it was pretty thorough.
As he said, it wasn't a defense, it was just an explanation.

As I said previously, I don't agree with the MGTOW movement, but I think this reactionary movement is understandable considering that men are under an actual, and measurable, cultural attack.

Once again, as Christians, we are required to do more than "react" to human events in human ways.
The MGTOW movement is a predictable reaction to a cultural situation... but Christians are called to higher standards.

However, I wouldn't suggest that Christian men can just ignore these cultural difficulties.
I'm genuinely very cautious about being alone with women, and I'm very cautious about what I say to them.
This cultural frenzy is real, and the Bible teaches us to be wise, and to look ahead to see what may be coming at us.

But a bit of caution, and even discomfort on my part, doesn't mean I dislike women.
What I dislike are certain ideologies that have driven parts of our culture over a cliff.

The world has always been messed up... and so it continues.


...
...

 

[Sonflower]

MGTOW

In posts #31 and #34 Adstar gave a very good explanation of MGTOW.
I think it was pretty thorough.
As he said, it wasn't a defense, it was just an explanation.

As I said previously, I don't agree with the MGTOW movement, but I think this reactionary movement is understandable considering that men are under an actual, and measurable, cultural attack.

Once again, as Christians, we are required to do more than "react" to human events in human ways.
The MGTOW movement is a predictable reaction to a cultural situation... but Christians are called to higher standards.

However, I wouldn't suggest that Christian men can just ignore these cultural difficulties.
I'm genuinely very cautious about being alone with women, and I'm very cautious about what I say to them.
This cultural frenzy is real, and the Bible teaches us to be wise, and to look ahead to see what may be coming at us.

But a bit of caution, and even discomfort on my part, doesn't mean I dislike women.
What I dislike are certain ideologies that have driven parts of our culture over a cliff.

The world has always been messed up... and so it continues.


...
...

I disagree with you about post 31 and 34. There is a clear biased in his explanation. I understand he was explaining but there is no responsibility placed on the shoulders of men. I believe men and women share responsibility in these matters.

I agree with everything else.

 

[Sonflower]

My post was given to explain why MGTOW has come about... It was not to explain if MGTOW is good or bad..

So you agree that feminism is out of control.. So you agree with one of my observations about why MGTOW became a thing..

""""I feel no fault divorce was nessicary in its time. You can't deny women were not treated fairly."""" No fault divorce is only needed when a woman wants a divorce in the situation where she is being treated fairly.. If the woman was being battered or her husband was cheating on her she had a reason for divorce and did not need a ""no fault divorce law"" a No fault divorce law is only ever needed when the woman wants a divorce where her hasband has not committed any faults against / upon her..

""" I'm ok with that because I'd rather have a court system that requires proof. I'd rather let a guilty man go free than send an innocent one to prison."""

That's your personal position.. But it is not the position of the feminist activists who have the ear of governement and the media.. Who demand that a woman who claims to have been a victim of abuse from a man MUST be believed.. That is the reality of the system we are now in.. So a man in such a system is playing Russian roulette every day. The more time he spends with random woman at work or at a social event the more chance he has to meet a woman who for what ever reason feels the need to destroy him.. Within the current legal and cultural SJW, BLM, Me Too, hatred for white males cultural revolution,,, your 18 year old son would be well advised to tread very carefully because your son can be destroyed by any woman he may interact with from this day forth..

""" I, ALSO, condemn the vile side of mgtow. There are groups that are not just men going their own way. They fight women and call us whores and sluts because they are angry. """

Don't get MGTOW mixed up with other movements.. True MGTOW men have walked away from woman.. They are not fighting woman anymore.. They are not attacking woman.. They are not in armed combat.. They are like Ghandi they are no longer playing the marriage , family game anymore.. They have given up on all that.. They know the system is stacked against men and are waiting for this feminist cultural revolution to burn itself out... The level of distruction that the feminist movement is bringing upon western society is huge.. The fall of the western culture and society is inevitable because of the war that feminists have decided to wage against what they perceive as the ""evil western patriarchy"" MGTOW are men who are heading to their bunkers and waiting and hoping that they will survive the crash of the western civilization... It's not going to be pretty when things finally collapse.. The feninists will then have no time to worry about a men sitting positions,, man-splaining.. They will be fully concerned about getting enough food to eat because they will be suffering starvation..

1. When no fault divorce started it was because women were abused. Some men abused their wives and prior to no fault women needed proof to get the divorce. Proof that couldn't always be shown. That was needed....then. Now, it is a different story. Why is there no personal responsibility for men? Are you saying that men have been nothing but good to women? Are you saying women weren't secretly and openly abused? Are you saying women weren't treated unfairly? I'm willing to admit women have failed in taking advantage of the system. Women have failed in their treatment of men in today's western culture. Women have failed but so have men. BOTH genders share the weight of the ugliness of it all.

2. I will teach my son to be cautious but mostly I'll teach him this:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known. So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 Corinthians 13:1‭-‬13 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1co.13.1-13.ESV

3. And lastly, true feminism is not about what most feminists stand for today. If you take feminism at its roots it is about equality....but we can't because it has been tainted by sin. In the same way, sin taints parts of mgtow.

And I know you said feminism is going to be the reason of the collapse of society but that squarely places the blame on women when in fact, SIN is the reason for the collapse of society from men and women alike.

 

[maxwel]

I disagree with you about post 31 and 34. There is a clear biased in his explanation. I understand he was explaining but there is no responsibility placed on the shoulders of men. I believe men and women share responsibility in these matters.

I agree with everything else.

1. Thankfully, the entire culture hasn't moved far enough left that I can be arrested for disagreeing with a woman on a forum... but it HAS moved far enough left that I can lose my job for it.


If we were leftists, having this conversation on a different forum... I'd be crucified before I could even explain myself.
I'd be doxed, outed, and crazy people would show up at my place of employment with picket signs... to make sure I was fired.
This actually happens all the time.
If you simply DISAGREE with the wrong people, they will hunt you down and wreck your life.

THAT is the problem.

The feminist movement has been co-opted by Cultural Neo-Marxism... and it's become extremely dangerous.
Any "masculine" man feels like he's being hunted down, as an offering to the feminist gods.

In this completely crazy environment, we shouldn't be surprised by polarization and bias by men...
although I disagree with that.


2. I think Adstar's assessment is accurate if we consider it as "MGTOW'S" view.
It needn't be my view, or your view.


I think we're on the same page here.

...

 

[melita916]

i didn't know the MTGOW movement existed until maybe a year ago. i learned about it on CC.

that's all i have to say about that.... lol

 

[Wild]

To me all these hashtag acronym movements are really stupid and I don't follow them. I feel that as a man you shouldn't let anyone define your worth. Go get a job , education and advance yourself to the best of your ability and the women will come to you if they are interested. Same goes for women as well. Just live your life and better yourself , the rest will fall into place.