Not By Works

The above is a lie from hell....

Yep true colors shining through...

Take it up with the moderators...I reported your slanderous lie.....which is rare thing for me to do....you owe me a public apology for spewing that lie bout Islam/Allah.......it is one thing to disagree and give each other heat.....it is another ball game all together to spew such a lie and NO MAN can call JESUS LORD except by the Spirit of God.....to say the following is not of God, nor something a believer would do....

You are teaching a Born again Christian can turn away from Christ and confess Allah as Lord, and still be saved.

Back by popular demand.

I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up

We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly

Those who stand against the truths of the bible teach the following....

a. Saved to the uttermost means not saved at all
b. Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise means not sealed
c. I will never leave the means he will leave thee
d. Nor forsake the means he will forsake thee
e. Eternal life means conditional and temporary
f. Everlasting life means conditional and temporary
g. In the Father's hand means not in the Father's hand
h. In Christ's hand means not in Christ's hand
i. Nothing shall separate us from the Love of God means something will separate us from the love of God
j. Kept by the power of God means God has no power and we are thrown under the bus
k. I give unto them eternal life means he gives us temporary life
l. Saved by faith means saved by self service and what we do
m. When I see the blood I will pass over you means God will not pass over cause the blood of Christ is ineffectual
n. Where sin abounds grace did much more abound means God's grace is weak and our sin is more powerful
o. Saved does not mean saved
p. Justified by faith/blood means rendered guilty and the blood is ineffectual
q. Sanctified eternally in Christ means NOT sanctified in Christ
r. Christ beginning a work of faith means He did not do it we did it
s. Jesus finishing a work of faith in us means he is weak and cannot finish it because we must finish it for him
t. Jesus completing the work of faith is us means we must complete it because Jesus is weak and ineffectual and cannot complete it
u. ETC

The above is exactly what ALL those who believe salvation can be lost or forfeit believe...regardless of their denial......end of story.

Ok.

Trying again.

There is no mention of works in my post, as a condition for salvation.


Please don't attack me and accuse me of promoting a doctrine of works for salvation.


No one is regenerated or saved or born again by works.


Believing is the point I am discussing.


12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13


The condition that Jesus gave for being saved is believe.

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Those in verse 12, had the seed stolen away before they could believe and be saved.



In the next verse, this group is represented of those in tribulation and are being persecuted because they are believers.


But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Matthew makes this condition abundantly clear -


20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21

• but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

but endures only for a while
who believe for a while



Again it's important to be aware that the reason these in this group are being persecuted is they are believers.



The intent of the persecution, in the context is to get the believers to turn away from Christ, and return to Judaism, a religion that rejects Jesus as Messiah, claiming He is a false prophet, even to this day.


So in order to convert to Judaism, those believers would have to renounce Jesus as a false prophet, or in some cases, be martyred for their faith.


Today in Muslim countries, many are persecuted for the very reason of getting the believers, who in many cases were former Muslim's who became believers, to renounce Christ and return to Islam.


I know this for a fact, as we support families of Arab Christians, who have lost their husband or father as a martyr.


So here is my question:


Can a believer who is being persecuted, [for being a Christian], renounce Christ, and confess Allah as Lord to save their life, and still be saved?

Can a believer who is being persecuted, [for being a Christian], renounce Christ, and confess the antichrist as Lord to save their life, and still be saved?



JPT

Back by popular demand.

I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up

We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly

History is replete with men, women and children who gave their lives in the most gruesome ways for the cause of Christ without recanting and or selling out the Lord....Paul, Peter, the apostles, John boiled (could not kill him), some 60 to 80 million Ana-Baptists, Waldensians, Albigensians, Paulicians, Lollards etc...and most recently we have seen 10's of thousands murdered by ISIS for their stance on Christ...and we KNOW that MANY will refuse to take the mark and have their heads whacked off for refusing the beast and his system...

I agree.

Why do you suppose these brave Christians refused to renounce Christ, and be killed?


The question remains:

Can a believer who is being persecuted, [for being a Christian], renounce Christ, and confess Allah as Lord to save their life, and still be saved?

Can a believer who is being persecuted, [for being a Christian], renounce Christ, and confess the antichrist as Lord to save their life, and still be saved?


My answer is quick and simple.

No, they are not saved.



What is your answer?




JPT

My answer was given above....

I do not believe a genuine saved child of God can lose salvation...

So your answer to my question is "yes" a believer who is being persecuted, and who renounces Jesus as Lord, and converts to Islam by confessing Allah as Lord, is still saved?


Now when I said before, exactly this same thing, saying that those who promote OSAS, are teaching people that believers can turn away from Christ and become Muslim, while under persecution, and you went ballistic and reported me because you would never teach such a thing, but now wee see I was exactly right.




JPT

Why are you laboring SO HARD to try to get another man to pass judgement on another mans eternity?

Why are you laboring SO HARD to try to get another man to pass judgement on another mans eternity? It's bad enough that you would do it, but you want to try to force another man to be as bold and arrogant? I don't think you will get many takers because most men fear God, as they should, and leave the judging of souls to Him.

Back by popular demand.

I understand Oncefallen not wanting to deal with this thread anymore so I will try to handle any reports in it until or unless I also give up

We would like to ask everyone to please try to be civil and even friendly