Not By Works

[VCO]

Sorry, then why are y’all continuing to keep this thread going if y’all know aint nobody listening to each other?

<><.🕇 ><>

The purpose for posting for me, has NEVER BEEN TO CONVINCE THE OPPONENT WITH THE OPPOSITE POINT OF VIEW, that I am right. What most People do not realize, is for every actual Poster, their are approximate FOUR people who read the Post, but never answer the post. This are young Christians, not yet Grounded in the WORD, and others are those who think they do not know enough Bible to rightly give the proper interpretations. So the HOLY SPIRIT puts it on my HEART, to respond to Posts for the 80% that are seeking TRUTH, but NEVER posting, and I pray for them to make the Spirit Led Choice.

You see, this type of Debate between followers of Christ is BIBLICAL. Some are more mature SPIRITUALLY, and I can learn from them. Others are not as mature as me, and do not know that some of their Theology is in error. A few have fallen for a false gospel, and false teachings. But it does not matter, because I have to trust that the HOLY SPIRIT will enable those of the 80% who are SAVED, or Destined to be SAVED, to HEAR THE TRUTH. Therefore, GOD has called me to be faithful to this VERSE:

Jude 1:3 (ASV)
3 Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints.

 

[dcontroversal]

And thanks to Oncefallen and CS1 and any others who have helped to try to moderate 5,000+ pages of heated discussion

For sure bro....

 

[TruthTalk]

It seems like a silly, hypothetical question. And I am not sure WHY you would ask it. But, I do not think it would be normal for Born Again Christian to even consider renouncing CHRIST. If they want to shoot me, I am ready to go HOME! Martyrdom advances the cause of CHRIST!
It happened before, and it will happen again.

Here is the Letter to the PERSECUTED CHURCH at Smyrna:

Revelation 2:8-11 (HCSB)
8 “Write to the angel of the church in Smyrna: “The First and the Last, the One who was dead and came to life, says:
9 I know your affliction and poverty, yet you are rich. ⌊I know⌋ the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
10 Don’t be afraid of what you are about to suffer. Look, the Devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will have affliction for 10 days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
11 “Anyone who has an ear should listen to what the Spirit says to the churches. The victor will never be harmed by the second death.


NOTICE: There is NO CONDEMNATION for the Persecuted Church. Most of the Letters to the Churches, have condemnation for what they are doing wrong, but NOT the SMYRNA Church, nor the Philadelphia Church. The REASON there is NO Condemnation for the Persecuted Church, is BECAUSE THE MINUTE THE PERSECUTION STARTS, the phony, non-born again Believers GET OUT. So perhaps a BETTER analogy to make, is "Would you remain in a Church where all your Neighbors made Fun of you for worshiping there?" It don't take much of the Persecution, to start getting the Phonies OUT.

Hi VCO, and welcome back...

This is so true, persecutions will weed out the non born again's. From a book I read, a simple man in China was persecuted and thrown into jail and beaten daily for attending a "non designated Church." Standing in front of his persecutor he picked up a small glass bottle and smashed it on the floor into 10,000 bits of glass. He told his tormentors that this is what will happen by persecuting me, you will crate thousands of more Christians than there are now.

God used this man's testimony to save many including his jailers. True story!

 

[dcontroversal]

My son is the perfect example. He was going to church and I thought he had a good handle on God and Jesus and had his eyes on the cross, was baptized in the spirit and in a water baptism and was a good person.

But one night at a party, somebody showed him a website that depicted Jesus not as the loving God, but as a monster. I knew something was wrong within a couple of weeks, it bothered him so much. He didn't tell me until years later why he finally gave up his witness to Jesus Christ.

For years, he hung out with people that knew not Jesus and in fact hated Jesus. So they searched the internet to prove that Jesus was a man made entity etc., etc., etc. And today he is still a good boy, but we can not talk too much about Jesus. So in my mind, my son is treading on thin ice. He once accepted and even confessed Jesus and now he does not. I fear for his eternal life.

Millions of Christians around the world are being subjected to this barrage of disinformation about God and Jesus, and they are leaving the church and turning their backs on Jesus. I fear for their eternal Lives.

Jesus is all about repentance and forgiveness, so I do not give up hope, but if my son does not repent and come back to Jesus, I fear he will be lost.

Do not ever give up hope. Remain faithfful, and let Jesus do his good works.

There are NONE good, no not one......JESUS said there were none good but God.............

 

[TruthTalk]

i personally used to be a sinless perfectionist....

i thought of many brothers and sisters here were wicked sinners on the way to hell
i used to insult and accuse some of them too...

after constant debate from people who did not seem to be lying about what they believe or twist my words and making so much sense.....

even though i spent years in study
sometimes 15 hours a day
i realized.... there was a slim chance..... maybe... i was wrong
i think this was God using brothers and sisters to plant seeds of truth in me

some harshly
some were gentle
some went back and forth
some were just in the middle and non-stop


so even as a stubborn rude self righteous young man who thought i was ready to be a preacher to the world

i layed everything i thought i knew back at Gods feet

many sleepless nights
many tears
many prayers
and many hours of study later

bit by bit

begging God to show me the truth
asking to only see what He wants me to see
asking to be delivered from itching ears
asking to be delivered from my own understanding if it is incorrect

and asking for truth

He broke my false gospel from me.....


this thread was one of the many tools God used to not only reprove and chasten me
God used it to bring me assurance and give me truth


not only me
i have personally seen God use this site as a tool for many to grow from what has been said here

i can pull up many posts of me calling brothers and sisters here sin loving liars from when i thought our own walk saved us and others pointed to Jesus

Beautiful testimony Mcgee and don't stop telling your story. I pray God will use you to open the "spiritual eyes" of many.

 

[BillG]

Firstly I would like to apologise to anyone I have offended, not because of what I believe, but if I have responded in a way that has made it personal and have gone at you personally.

That is not the correct way to interact.
So if I have done that then please accept my apologies.

Secondly with regards to what I believe, I only post it if I'm fully convinced it's true.

I tend not to post if I'm not convinced, if do then I try to make that clear or ask the question.

At the end of the day I'm sure we all want the same thing.
To see people grow in Christ, be released more and more.
If that is our genuine hope and what we work for then God knows that.
And if we get it wrong our works will be burned up but we will be saved as through the fire.

God bless.

Bill

 

[PS]

.

QUESTION

Who saves? Jesus or your works?​

.

 

[BillG]

.

QUESTION
Who saves? Jesus or your works?​

.

Maybe the question should also be.

What saves?

 

[TruthTalk]

There are NONE good, no not one......JESUS said there were none good but God.............

Hi decon, haven't most of us been there, "pre-born-again", I truly thought I was a good guy. After being born from above I became extremely aware of my sin and soon my sin became a battle ground for change, I lost Jesus won.

God bless!

 

[PS]

Maybe the question should also be.

What saves?

Given that we need faith, do we need faith in, Jesus or in our works? So the question remains:

Who saves? Jesus or our works.​

 

[BillG]

Given that we need faith, do we need faith in Jesus or in our works. So the question remains:

Who saves? Jesus or our works.​

I never said it didn't.

I was just trying add the bit about what saves us.
It's not our works but our faith.
As a result of our faith works will follow.

It's Jesus who saves us, nothing more or nothing less.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Now you are embellishing what you said to me.....exactly why most reject what you say....you like to make a blanket statement, then twist it or embellish it to your favor.....your modus operandi.......

If a believer is being persecuted and decides to renounce Christ, and confess Allah as Lord, then they are no longer believers and are no longer saved.


You doctrine of OSAS, teaches people that believers who are under persecution can indeed reject Jesus as Lord, and confess Allah as Lord and still be saved.

That my friend is Heresy, plain and simple.


JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

Given that we need faith, do we need faith in, Jesus or in our works? So the question remains:

Who saves? Jesus or our works.​

Jesus saves those who believe.



JPT

 

[BillG]

Jesus saves those who believe.



JPT

So can I ask you.

The issue for you is not that works save but a genuine beliver rejecting/renouncing Jesus?

 

[PS]

I never said it didn't.

I was just trying add the bit about what saves us.
It's not our works but our faith.
As a result of our faith works will follow.

It's Jesus who saves us, nothing more or nothing less.

Jesus saves those who believe.

JPT

As the thread, "Not By Works" has been confirmed as true, maybe the
thread can be closed and made official teaching on Christian Chat?​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And thanks to Oncefallen and CS1 and any others who have helped to try to moderate 5,000+ pages of heated discussion

Amen, can’t be easy!

 

[dcontroversal]

If a believer is being persecuted and decides to renounce Christ, and confess Allah as Lord, then they are no longer believers and are no longer saved.


You doctrine of OSAS, teaches people that believers who are under persecution can indeed reject Jesus as Lord, and confess Allah as Lord and still be saved.

That my friend is Heresy, plain and simple.


JPT

Nice try and I do not recall us being friends.....and salvation is not loseable....get that through your head

 

[VCO]

Hi VCO, and welcome back...

This is so true, persecutions will weed out the non born again's. From a book I read, a simple man in China was persecuted and thrown into jail and beaten daily for attending a "non designated Church." Standing in front of his persecutor he picked up a small glass bottle and smashed it on the floor into 10,000 bits of glass. He told his tormentors that this is what will happen by persecuting me, you will crate thousands of more Christians than there are now.

God used this man's testimony to save many including his jailers. True story!

Sounds familiar? Could it have been a book about WATCHMAN NEE? Where do you think I went? Been here at home for 2.5 years.

 

[VCO]

If a believer is being persecuted and decides to renounce Christ, and confess Allah as Lord, then they are no longer believers and are no longer saved.


You doctrine of OSAS, teaches people that believers who are under persecution can indeed reject Jesus as Lord, and confess Allah as Lord and still be saved.

That my friend is Heresy, plain and simple.


JPT

Honest, YOU ARE LISTENING TO WIFE'S TALES ABOUT MADE UP OSAS supposed doctrine.

How about you just ask us, and all of us will TELL YOU THE TRUTH, so that you will have if from the Horse's Mouth, instead of Made Up stories by False Teachers.

 

[BillG]

Sounds familiar? Could it have been a book about WATCHMAN NEE? Where do you think I went? Been here at home for 2.5 years.

I've heard of Watcman Nee, not read anything by him.

Is he worth a read?