jesus is not God

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PS said:
Then please explain John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
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One God.

Not one Father.




Explain what Jesus meant when he said "Before Abraham, I AM."
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The Son appeared as Malek Yahweh in the OT.

Jesus even remarks that Abraham saw Him and was glad!




Then tell us if the Bible is lying when it tells us Jesus is God on earth?
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Even the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus is God on Earth.
Is scripture wrong when it tells us Jesus is Immanuel meaning God with us?
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'God' with us.

Not 'Father' with us.
Is John 1:1 wrong when it tells us the Word who is Jesus was God? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
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Jesus is God.....Jesus is NOT the Father...just as scriptures states...



Is John 1:14 wrong? "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
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No mention that The Son is The Father.
Is Col 1:16 wrong when it tells us Jesus is the creator? "For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together."
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There are verses which state that The Father creates; that The Son creatres; that The Spirit creates...this is the Trinity.

Simple...
I can give much more.
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Please do...
Or do you need to rethink your trintarian theology and instead of dividing God up, try to understand the various rolls of One God who is All in All.
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No verse thwarts the Trinity.

 
Another 2013 year old agrument. It can't get much plainer that this. “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).
 
Bowman said:
One God.
Not one Father.
The Son appeared as Malek Yahweh in the OT.
Jesus even remarks that Abraham saw Him and was glad!
Even the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus is God on Earth.
'God' with us.
Not 'Father' with us.
Jesus is God.....Jesus is NOT the Father...just as scriptures states...
No mention that The Son is The Father.
There are verses which state that The Father creates; that The Son creates; that The Spirit creates...this is the Trinity.
Simple...
Please do...
No verse thwarts the Trinity.
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I've had enough arguing to last me a lifetime but the part I have highlighted says what I have always thought which is that there is one creator with a trinity of names.

Best wishes.
 
PS said:
I've had enough arguing to last me a lifetime but the part I have highlighted says what I have always thought which is that there is one creator with a trinity of names.

Best wishes.
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The Trinity shares the same name (singular)....

 
Jesus is lord, GOD is three in one GOD the father GOD the son and GOD the holy spirit. the son is Jesus Christ he's GOD the son. that's the way it works, the bible says it is and i believe it. the bible clearly says that Jesus is the son of GOD and GOD the son
 
truthfull said:
what is this about Jesus being God and three persons etc.
Im a follower of Jesus christ and have read the bible and I hear people saying Jesus is God why?????

please explain short and clearly,with scripture proof.

thank you.
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A Bold and Intelligent Claim.

Indeed "Christianity" seems nothing more than Paganism...In the sense that most simply kneel before "Jesus" Idols and pray to "Jesus." No different than what Pagans would do to Athena or Zeus...


You may be Interested in knowing about The Jefferson Bible...The Jefferson Bible

Thomas Jefferson believed that "Jesus" was Originally some kind of Wise Man or 'Buddha' if you Will...And that his Teachings Originally contained Divine Truths...But these Scriptures had been Corrupted by Men over the Centuries and "Jesus" was turned into a 'God'.

Thomas Jefferson in his Bible Excluded all mentions of the Divinity of Jesus, because he thought it was a Corruption.


"The whole history of these books [the Gospels] is so defective and doubtful that it seems vain to attempt minute inquiry into it: and such tricks have been played with their text, and with the texts of other books relating to them, that we have a right, from that cause, to entertain much doubt what parts of them are genuine. In the New Testament there is internal evidence that parts of it have proceeded from an extraordinary man; and that other parts are of the fabric of very inferior minds. It is as easy to separate those parts, as to pick out diamonds from dunghills." -Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, January 24, 1814
 
Bowman said:
The Trinity shares the same name (singular)....
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet the one is not three, and the three are not one."-Thomas Jefferson[/FONT][/FONT]
 
The bible Actually never Mentions the Word Trinity...


Though Paganism is full Of Trinities...One of many things "Christianity" somehow borrowed from Paganism.
 
EvanOak said:
The bible Actually never Mentions the Word Trinity...


Though Paganism is full Of Trinities...One of many things "Christianity" somehow borrowed from Paganism.
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I don't normally talk about trinity. But I looked up a simple definition of this word in English :

Definition of trinity
noun (plural trinities)

(the Trinity or the Holy Trinity) the three persons of the Christian Godhead; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
a group of three people or things:the wine was the first of a trinity of three excellent vintages
[mass noun] the state of being three:God is said to be trinity in unity

Origin:

Middle English: from Old French trinite, from Latin trinitas 'triad', from trinus 'threefold' (see trine)......


""The three persons of the Christian Godhead; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
a group of three people or things""

So its simply a word, whoever uses it I guess; It means the same thing: a group of three people or things.

God Christ and the Holy Spirit would be a group of three. Simple enough . I but its a deeper teaching, in that , that it is used to teach that God , holds the office, of three: one of Christ; The Savior of God, God The Heavenly Father, and God's Spirit, The Holy Spirit.

Seems simple. And, we are not without a witness in the scriptures, that teach of God in three's . Or The Heavenly Father, being one in the same, as The Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Again we see this thought, or definition of this word "Trinity", clear in the Bible : ( Here is one scripture showing that God is Christ, and thus, Christ is God.

Matthew 1:23



23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


King James Version (KJV)

Isaiah 7:14


14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

And there are many other scriptures , that others can post. So although the word is not in the scriptures . The teaching of that definition is there I think for us to see .
 
nathan3 said:
I don't normally talk about trinity. But I looked up a simple definition of this word in English :

Definition of trinity
noun (plural trinities)

(the Trinity or the Holy Trinity) the three persons of the Christian Godhead; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
a group of three people or things:the wine was the first of a trinity of three excellent vintages
[mass noun] the state of being three:God is said to be trinity in unity

Origin:

Middle English: from Old French trinite, from Latin trinitas 'triad', from trinus 'threefold' (see trine)......


""The three persons of the Christian Godhead; Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
a group of three people or things""

So its simply a word, whoever uses it I guess; It means the same thing: a group of three people or things.

God Christ and the Holy Spirit would be a group of three. Simple enough . I but its a deeper teaching, in that , that it is used to teach that God , holds the office, of three: one of Christ; The Savior of God, God The Heavenly Father, and God's Spirit, The Holy Spirit.

Seems simple. And, we are not without a witness in the scriptures, that teach of God in three's . Or The Heavenly Father, being one in the same, as The Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Again we see this thought, or definition of this word "Trinity", clear in the Bible : ( Here is one scripture showing that God is Christ, and thus, Christ is God.

Matthew 1:23



23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


King James Version (KJV)

Isaiah 7:14


14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

And there are many other scriptures , that others can post. So although the word is not in the scriptures . The teaching of that definition is there I think for us to see .
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I don't think there is a "Deeper Teaching" or deeper meaning to the "Christian" "Trinity."
In fact, what deeper meaning DOES it have? The symbolism and meaning of Trinities far predates Christianity...
The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction?

Like I said the Word is never written in the bible...
There are groups of three or four people in different situations in the bible and probably every book ever written...That doesn't mean they are a "Trinity"

I'm not really persuaded by the Scriptures you posted. The truth is their is little to no scriptures supporting a pagan "Trinity" in the bible. The Jews worshiped a Single God.

Matthew 1:23 Simply talks about what his Name was...Emmanuel, which I can make a good point right there...The Man was never actually called "Jesus" by anyone of that Day. All the scriptures is telling you is what the name 'Immanuel' means "God is with us."
 
Jesus IS God...

EvanOak said:
I don't think there is a "Deeper Teaching" or deeper meaning to the "Christian" "Trinity."
In fact, what deeper meaning DOES it have? The symbolism and meaning of Trinities far predates Christianity...
The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction?
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Your link uses Trinitarian rendered scriptures in its examples, in the first place!



Like I said the Word is never written in the bible...
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Its right next to the word 'monad'.




The Jews worshiped a Single God.
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Jews were, and are, idol worshipers.
 
Re: Jesus IS God...

Bowman said:
Your link uses Trinitarian rendered scriptures in its examples, in the first place!



Its right next to the word 'monad'.







Jews were, and are, idol worshipers.
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I'm not really sure of any point you are making but...


Jews were indeed Monotheists, however there were People that worshiped Idols and more than One "God" in the bible...Solomon for example.

Jew in modern times I guess Worship Idols...Like bowing to the Temple Wall. Which isn't technically an "Idol" of a god.

All of Judaism has a foundation in Moses's Law...No Idol worshiping being one of them.

If you Compare Catholics to Jews, the Catholics will take the Gold in Idol Worship.
 
Re: Jesus IS God...

EvanOak said:
I'm not really sure of any point you are making but...


Jews were indeed Monotheists, however there were People that worshiped Idols and more than One "God" in the bible...Solomon for example.

Jew in modern times I guess Worship Idols...Like bowing to the Temple Wall. Which isn't technically an "Idol" of a god.

All of Judaism has a foundation in Moses's Law...No Idol worshiping being one of them.

If you Compare Catholics to Jews, the Catholics will take the Gold in Idol Worship.
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What was the Golden Calf (an idol) made of if it wasn't gold? Also the two idols at the ends of the mercy-seat that were called cherubim, they were made of beaten gold.
 
truthfull said:
what is this about Jesus being God and three persons etc.
Im a follower of Jesus christ and have read the bible and I hear people saying Jesus is God why?????

please explain short and clearly,with scripture proof.

thank you.
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Jesus is the only begotten Son of God.
Unlike the multitude of angels (the created sons of God) Jesus was born of God before creation began.
This would be the first and most miraculous, of the miracle births recorded.
Unlike the birth of Issac, John the Baptist, and the birth of Christ, He was born without a female conception.
[h=3]John 1:1[/h] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


As we can see, the only begotten Son already existed when creation began.
The Son was with the Father, during creation. And, John 1 says all things were created by the Son.
The Son was the Father, in that He was born of the Father and carried the God gene. In fact, sense He was born of the Father, without having a mother, He is a genetic clone of the Father. So, when Jesus said; "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?" He was accurate.
 
Re: Jesus IS God...

PS said:
What was the Golden Calf (an idol) made of if it wasn't gold? Also the two idols at the ends of the mercy-seat that were called cherubim, they were made of beaten gold.
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Yes but this is BEFORE Moses 'Lays down the Law'

And of course I already mentioned there is Paganism and such in the Old testament.

Also I'm not making any specific reference to 'Gold Idols' I was simply saying that Catholics would 'Take the Gold' in Idol worship...In other words they would Win a Competition of who worships the Most Idols...
 
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Re: Jesus IS God...

EvanOak said:
I'm not really sure of any point you are making but...
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You are trying to use Trinitarian rendered scripture for your non-Trinitarian world-view.

This does not fly...



Jews were indeed Monotheists, however there were People that worshiped Idols and more than One "God" in the bible...Solomon for example.


Jew in modern times I guess Worship Idols...Like bowing to the Temple Wall. Which isn't technically an "Idol" of a god.

All of Judaism has a foundation in Moses's Law...No Idol worshiping being one of them.

If you Compare Catholics to Jews, the Catholics will take the Gold in Idol Worship.
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Jews who worship the Creator correctly are called Christians.
 
Re: Jesus IS God...

Bowman said:
You are trying to use Trinitarian rendered scripture for your non-Trinitarian world-view.

This does not fly...






Jews who worship the Creator correctly are called Christians.
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You are trying to say there is a Trinity when the Bible Forbids Paganism and completely Omits the Word "Trinity"...Sorry but that doesn't Fly.



Why don't you tell that to Jews?

It's probably their opinion that you are Worshiping the 'Creator' wrong.
 
The Bible forbids paganism but the Trinity is the human understanding of the tri-fold relationship of God. As has been stated many times before, the Trinity isn't three gods but one True God in three persons. Yes, it's difficult to understand but if we could fully comprehend God and his nature, we'd have to be divine ourselves. Realise some things can be discussed until the cow's come home but at some point you're going to have to take God's Word on faith.
 
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