The Freemasons!

[jonrambo]

What you guys think about the freemason chapter on know your enemy - fuel project on youtube?

Also... what you think about my avatar MWAHAHAHAHA

If you know your history and choose to defend freemasons or the jesuits or any religion outside christianity your a liar

 

[jonrambo]

and all liars have their _______ in the lake of fire?
not judgeing but if you dont know about these people i sugguest you look into it before commenting

 

[jonrambo]

And they do have a bible in most lodges but UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES it it allowed to be read from
I know some phillipinos that went to the lodge in their country and they were not allowed in without first spitting on the pic of jesus at the enterance on the floor. join the masons and tell them you can talk to the devil see how quick they promote you

 

[Nautilus]

eh some people have there things...my dad has been a freemason longer than i can remember, though he was also always the one volunteering in chruch and making sure the family went and leading us spiritually at home. Sure my values may have changed as i grew older but he certainly laid a great christian foundation, you know being a freemason and all.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Please replace the word "you" with "one" in your future posts as I am not a Freemason. I'm simply playing the role of devil's advocate in this thread.

Sure thing! I can understand why one(or YOU in this case) does not like passive voice when it comes to sentence structure. Many people have the inability to understand it with clarity. Passive voice is certainly frowned upon when writing a research paper or articles that may be published. Yet, when it comes to posting on internet forums there is really no "law" in sentence structure or grammar other than some people's strange obsession with correcting grammar and writing.. which btw(this is an abreviation for by the way) psychologists have linked that to a certain obsessive compulsive disorder. In saying that I did not imply you were a freemason. I could tell from your posts you weren't.
As far as playing "devil's advocate" is concerned I cannot understand why any Christian would desire to do that. Discussing a topic is fine. Disagreeing is everyone's right. Creating a situation to intentionally argue a point is frowned upon among many Christians.

I would appreciate it if you answered point #4 from my last point. Your comment in regards to it was fallacious because it was a yes or no question. Are you dismissing Born-Again Christians whom also claim to be Freemasons as fraudulent?

I will answer any question however I please. If you do not like my answer then I suggest you learn how to deal with it. I will not call another Christian a fraud. Only God knows if they're sincere, but that does not mean I cannot point out if they've been misled and misguided. No Christian is perfect. We are not immune to sin, but if I feel something is against God and the teachings of his word I will point it out.

Ties between the Illumaniti and the Freemasons are questionable. It seems the only concrete linkage between the two are of the P2 lodge scandal in Italy. A Masonic lodge was taken over by Illumanti thugs (Licio Gelli and his elite buddies) via blackmail and other deceitful behavior then they pushed for a political takeover of Italy. P2 - Propaganda Due

As far as the Illuminati is concerned many say it does not exist. Many conspiracy theorists say it does. I personally don't know, but it is easy to see the link between them(Illuminati) and the Freemasons to see why one would think that.

Please use references!

What references do you want? You say you aren't a Freemason therefore your knowledge of the fraternity is limited. An entering apprentice does not have the same knowledge as one would that was a higher degree. Even their website says that. They do not reveal their so called "secrets" to everyone within the fraternity. Therefore using references is irrelevant due to the fact you don't have enough knowledge to defend them.
I will admit I have heard many things about this secret society since childhood. None of it was good. I did do my best to dismiss what I have heard, and point out the nonbiblical parts of the society by looking at their information they make public, and knowing several Freemasons personally.

I do know that they do use Albert Pikes book, and will train an apprentice from that. Woman are not allowed to view it, and I do know a woman who got ahold of her husbands book. He caught her. Beat her. Police were called. The arresting officer was a fellow Freemason. The officer did not arrest him. The defense for that was he is a brother and you protect your own.


There is one thing that I cannot seem to find information on. Woman are not allowed to be a Freemason. There are groups that are part of the Freemasons that woman can join(Eastern Star), but an actual Freemason... no.

How is it they are able to get away with this type of discrimmination?

The ACLU filed a lawsuit against the Elks organization in the 90s because to be a member you(passive voice) had to be a 21 year old American male. The ACLU won, and woman are now allowed to be Elks.
What loophole has the Freemasons used to prevent a lawsuit?

 

[Elizabeth619]

actually praying for a game is quite common beforehand...and i do believe most teams still have chaplains for when they travel. But if everyone is praying to someone different, who are you reallypraying too. Im just showing that elizabeths justification of they dont recognize God as the one true God is a load of bull. Plenty of places dont do that and they arent any better or worse off than anyone else. do you choose where you shop by the religious statements of its owners and employess?

A load of bull according to your perspective.
If any Christian is part of any organization where they cannot do the Lord's work or they're held spiritually equal to nonchristian beliefs then they should probably not be part of it. I don't care if it is a club, sports or whatever. Comparing football to a secret society is rather laughable anyway....and shopping? My word, you are grasping at straws here aren't you?

Aren't you one who has posted on CC about prayer and respecting other religions? Aren't you one who supports no prayer in school? Since most schools have footballs teams you now defend prayer before the game regardless of their religion? I do believe you were one that was advocating a "moment of silence", and not actual prayer so others would not be offended. So now prayer is ok with you?

Also.......Going to town to buy toilet paper is not even in the same category as being a member of society that stands by nonchristian beliefs. Their roots are actually Jewish. You know... those people who rejected Jesus.

By the way, if the Freemason's are not a religious organization then what is the point in having religious books within the lodge? Why pray? Why even acknowledge God in the first place?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Danschance, good grief! Why does someone have to be seen as promoting Freemasonary, if they're merely interested in asking questions/discussing it. Some of you people think that it's evil to learn of other religions, it's not, it's the practising said religions that's wrong. God's Word should be our focus but get your heads out of the sand and realise it's good to know the Enemy's ways in it's many guises!

No one said anything about learning other religions. Mixing other religions and considering them equal to Christianity is the problem.
Learning at least the basic beliefs of other religions is something I happen to support. After all, how can you bring someone to Christ if you don't know what they believe in the first place?

 

[Nautilus]

A load of bull according to your perspective.
If any Christian is part of any organization where they cannot do the Lord's work or they're held spiritually equal to nonchristian beliefs then they should probably not be part of it. I don't care if it is a club, sports or whatever. Comparing football to a secret society is rather laughable anyway....and shopping? My word, you are grasping at straws here aren't you?

Aren't you one who has posted on CC about prayer and respecting other religions? Aren't you one who supports no prayer in school? Since most schools have footballs teams you now defend prayer before the game regardless of their religion? I do believe you were one that was advocating a "moment of silence", and not actual prayer so others would not be offended. So now prayer is ok with you?

Also.......Going to town to buy toilet paper is not even in the same category as being a member of society that stands by nonchristian beliefs. Their roots are actually Jewish. You know... those people who rejected Jesus.

By the way, if the Freemason's are not a religious organization then what is the point in having religious books within the lodge? Why pray? Why even acknowledge God in the first place?

lol implying i was talking about school level football....I was simply stating that most organizations couldnt care less what your beliefs are. Unless someone is joining a group for religious reasons I dont think they should care either. Do people join the Masons for religious reasons Not normally, in fact ive never heard of anyone doing that. So why should it matter that people of all faith are in? Like someone said earlier with the US as an example, people here believe all sorts of things, does that make it bad?

 

[alienx7587]

Well now, we have a bonifide lie here. You claim the bible is in every lodge??


From "



It seems to me that you are very excited about being a freemason and are willing to defend it with zeal, but you also do not seem to know much about it. The bible is not in every lodge. The Koran and other "holy books" can be displayed alone or even next to the bible. That to me is blatant blasphemy as the bible is lowered to the standards of other pagan "holy books".

Where are you quoting from?

OP, you yourself admit this is an organization that allows you to worship any deity of your choosing. What more do i need to know? This is an 'all paths lead to the same destination' mindset. Which is clearly not what the bible states.
Only time i see people playing 'devils advocate' is when they support the viewpoint to some degree and are trying to validate it, without taking heat by admitting that they are actually in support of it. It makes zero sense, otherwise, to try to play 'devils advocate' in favor of a clearly non-Christian organization whose teachings, according to you, are the very same teachings that will be spread in the end times as part of the acceptable world religion... 'all paths lead to god'.


Also, Elizabeth, i agree with everything you posted, and in some cases i went to say some things and realized you beat me to it, haha.

Good point, but truth be told, I'm not trying to validate Freemasonry. I will admit though, the claimed history behind it's beginnings along with the air of mystery does make it an intriguing subject to learn about. Hence why I asked for concrete evidence rather than opinions.

Also, Freemasonry is not a religion. If it were a religion it would not require one to believe in a non-masonic god in order to be a member. I agree it's suspicious that they require one to believe in "a" god, but not THE God. But again, there are no worship services or anything like that. BUT as a soldier in the U.S. Military, one fights alongside people (and for people) of all religions yet is able to choose however and whomever they wish to worship. Does that mean Christian U.S. servicemen and servicewomen are going to hell? I think not.

As for non-Christian rituals, does that mean those whom have joined a secular frat/sorority in university are satanic?

I will admit I have heard many things about this secret society since childhood. None of it was good.

This explains your bias attitude.

Oh, and the use of "one" instead of "you" in a brainstorm is just proper English and less confusing for people not involved in the conversation. (i.e. People skimming the thread.) Otherwise they can misconstrue your statements as personal attacks. Unless of course, they are personal attacks, in which case you (yes, you) should reconsider your judgement. Anyhow, as you mentioned, it's your prerogative and irrelevant to the subject matter.

Intentionally creating a situation with two opposing sides is definitely not frowned upon by Christians or anyone intellectual. That's how people grow and learn- by challenging each other. (Think about Martin Luther creating opposition to the Catholic Church)

Here is a documentary on Masonry created by the Discovery Channel for anyone interested (watch the whole thing): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rwAT9aOEME

 

[OnThisRock]

Philipians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

 

[Elizabeth619]

OP
Creating a topic with 2 opposing sides is called a debate.

Creating a topic with intent to defend a particular side that you don't necessarily agree with is called playing devils advocate.

Learn the difference.
When you said you were playing devils advocate you implied to those who know what the actual meaning is that you were defending the Freemasons.

Then you turn around and say youre not looking to validate it. Yet, you're first post was in defense of the Freemasons, and I've not once seen where you've given support to the other side.
All I've seen in when someone outright opposes the organization or ones like it you ask if they consider members as fraudulent or satanic. Then, like you did to me you weren't happy if we didn't give you a yes or no answer. By giving a direct answer to such a question is acting in the case of authority no human has. So it's better to explain why something is right or wrong than to make the perception of placing unrighteousness judgement.

So, are you wanting to know opposing sides without your personal bias or are you just trying to spark an argument among Christians?

 

[Anonimous]

Good point.

~~~​

I'm not sure why people think freemasonry is okay. It's wrong to perform religious ritual with people who follow different gods.


"Take heed to yourself, lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it be a snare in your midst. But you shall destroy their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), lest you make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they play the harlot with their gods and make sacrifice to their gods, and one of them invites you and you eat of his sacrifice, and you take of his daughters for your sons, and his daughters play the harlot with their gods and make your sons play the harlot with their gods." Exodus 34:12-16


A Christian's priority should be God's Kingdom. To preach salvation through Christ alone.

If you were to ask that question to an ancient Israelite in retrospect they would most likely say, "couldn't hoit!". They had a long history of that. Look what they got for the effort...

 

[Anonimous]

Danschance, good grief! Why does someone have to be seen as promoting Freemasonary, if they're merely interested in asking questions/discussing it. Some of you people think that it's evil to learn of other religions, it's not, it's the practising said religions that's wrong. God's Word should be our focus but get your heads out of the sand and realise it's good to know the Enemy's ways in it's many guises!

I once asked someone how to taech me basic autocare...But, I wasn't considering becoming one. But...if I could be one...

 

[Elizabeth619]

lol implying i was talking about school level football....I was simply stating that most organizations couldnt care less what your beliefs are. Unless someone is joining a group for religious reasons I dont think they should care either. Do people join the Masons for religious reasons Not normally, in fact ive never heard of anyone doing that. So why should it matter that people of all faith are in? Like someone said earlier with the US as an example, people here believe all sorts of things, does that make it bad?

I actually expected you to point out that I thought you were implying school football. Glad ya did! So is it ok for the NFL or other non school related sports to pray, but not schools or school related activities?
As a matter of fact the NFL has been under criticism about praying and prayer circles. Anyway, that is getting off topic...

You have made a good point about why people join the Freemasons. I don't know anyone that joined for religious reasons either now that I think about it. I think many join due to family traditions. Some may join for social status or whatever.

I can also understand your argument, and in a way agree with you. If religion isn't the main cause then what's the big deal?
I just want to know why one is required to believe in a supreme being if religion is not a big deal in this organization.

"The Masonic altar is symbolic of our quest to commune with our Creator." ...yet religion is not a big deal.
Why is there a masonic alter with religious books on it if it isn't a big deal?

 

[Elizabeth619]

Oh, btw.... Wiccans are apparently allowed in the Freemasons. I think that was mentioned earlier by someone.

 

[HEIsRiSen]

Any brotherhood where a person has to take a blood oath to have their throat slit and tongue ripped out if they don't protect the organizations secrets, symbolic or not, is just wrong. It seems that freemasons are trying to establish a universal religion.

Illumination comes through Jesus Christ, not freemasonry.