Is the "Trinity" False?

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jimmydiggs said:
That's a heresy known as Modalism.

The doctrine of the Trinity, is One Being (God) three persons (father, son, holy spirit). These three persons are distinct.

220px-Shield-Trinity-Scutum-Fidei-English.svg.png
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So your saying that the Father is God,The Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and that their all seperate from each other,there's three Gods then? But the Bible says there is one God only, Isiah 43:10-11 and 45:21-22 it's saying God is one and none beside him,but ur saying three Gods. God Bless
 
theBibleisawsome said:
So your saying that the Father is God,The Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God and that their all seperate from each other,there's three Gods then? But the Bible says there is one God only, Isiah 43:10-11 and 45:21-22 it's saying God is one and none beside him,but ur saying three Gods. God Bless
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Im fairly certain you know that's not what he's saying.
 
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
 
Your concern is sound.

There is no single term in the Bible that denotes this doctrine. It is purely a matter of formal belief and politics. Considering this, the doctrine states to the effect that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (not a person/bei ng) are each without a beginning, have existed for an eternity, uncreated, and equal. In other words, each is neither greater nor lesser than the other.

Consider just a few various scriptures that do not support man's "Trinity" doctrine:

Exodus 33:20 No man has seen God at any time.
Proverbs 8:22-31 I came to be beside (the creator) as a master worker
John 19:4-7 People understood that Jesus was not God Almighty but only his son
Hebrews 9:24 Christ entered into heaven before the person of God
Matthew 16; 3-16 Son of God
Matthew 3:17; 17:5 Voice of God
Mark 13:32 No one know the day of the hour except the father
Mark 13:32; John 14:28 The father is greater than I am
Luke 4:41 Called “son of god” by the demons
Luke 22:42 Remove this cup…let your will not mine Who was Jesus praying to?
John 3:16 Only begotten son
John 17:1, 3 The one whom you sent forth
John 20:17, 28, 31 I am ascending to my father…your father…my God and your God
1 Corinthians 15:28 Head of Christ is God
Colossians 1:15 first born
Revelations 3:14 beginning of creation
 
chesser said:
Im fairly certain you know that's not what he's saying.
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I believe thats what he is saying, lets take a look at his graph that he put up. It says The Father is God, The Son is God,and the Holy Ghost is God but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't the Father,so he's saying they r all seperate and there all God's. God bless
 
theBibleisawsome said:
I believe thats what he is saying, lets take a look at his graph that he put up. It says The Father is God, The Son is God,and the Holy Ghost is God but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't the Father,so he's saying they r all seperate and there all God's. God bless
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Did you know your body is you, your soul is you and your spirit is you? Also you body is not your soul, your soul is not your spirit and your spirit is not your body?therefore you are 3 people!
 
theBibleisawsome said:
I believe thats what he is saying, lets take a look at his graph that he put up. It says The Father is God, The Son is God,and the Holy Ghost is God but the Father isn't the Son and the Son isn't the Spirit, and the Spirit isn't the Father,so he's saying they r all seperate and there all God's. God bless
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There is only one being, and that being is God.
 
chesser said:
Did you know your body is you, your soul is you and your spirit is you? Also you body is not your soul, your soul is not your spirit and your spirit is not your body?therefore you are 3 people!
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Ok but were not seperate, and just like were not seperate, God is not seperate. God bless
 
chesser said:
Did you know your body is you, your soul is you and your spirit is you? Also you body is not your soul, your soul is not your spirit and your spirit is not your body?therefore you are 3 people!
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When you look at me, do you see three people? You should see one. One person with a soul, a spirit and a body.

When you look at God you should see One. One Being in whom the fulness of Father, Son and Holy Spirit dwells.
Not separate.

If you were standing before His throne of judgment right now, who would you see? Three persons before you, or One?

If you see One - you see all three. If you see Three - you see three - unless you can see the fulness that dwells in One - Jesus Christ.
 
Im not,look were made in the image of God and look at us,were just one with a soul in us,God is the same way,God is not seperate if he was seperate then we wouldn't have our souls inside of us, we would have our souls walking along side us if God was seperate because we r made in his image. I hope u see my point and realize im not purposely misunderstanding u or tryna fight with u,im being very truthful in the heart about this and humble. God bless.
 
NWL said:
Hey everyone, In my question here I'm not trying to attack or trying to 'prove' the Trinity wrong here (as some my conclude), I'm just interested in a Trinitarian "explanation" to the my question/scripture in question.

Here it is; (Acts 7:55, 56) “...Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at God’s right hand. ‘Look! I can see heaven thrown open,’ he said, ‘and the Son of man "standing" at the right hand of God..."​— The New Jerusalem Bible

Filled with God’s active force, Stephen saw Jesus “standing at God’s right hand.” From a certain point of view one might not think that Jesus became God after his resurrection to heaven but, rather, a distinct spiritual being.

So my question is, How can Jesus stand at the "right" hand of God if he "himself" is God? (The way I picture it is if 'God = Father/Son/Spirit' then how can the "Son" be seen "standing" at the "right hand" of the 'Son/Father/Spirit'.)

Thanks to those who read and answer, if possible please provide scripture along with your answer.
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Everyone else has provided excellent examples and explanations so I'm not going to add mine in that respect. But perhaps this may help you understand (or confuse you more) the Godhead. The concept of what God is like (as a being) came out of seemingly irreconcilable verses. Many groups have created concepts to reconcile these verses. For example, if you hold to the Godhead as three distinct persons, then you get Mormonism. If you hold to the Godhead as one but represented by three, then you get the Trinity. In truth, none of the explanations of the Godhead are very good . It's just that the concept of the Trinity is the best we've got so far. Even so, the concept of the Trinity hardly helps us to truly fathom God. However, it is the best out of all the other alternatives because it does successfully reconcile all the verses.
 
oopsies said:
Everyone else has provided excellent examples and explanations so I'm not going to add mine in that respect. But perhaps this may help you understand (or confuse you more) the Godhead. The concept of what God is like (as a being) came out of seemingly irreconcilable verses. Many groups have created concepts to reconcile these verses. For example, if you hold to the Godhead as three distinct persons, then you get Mormonism. If you hold to the Godhead as one but represented by three, then you get the Trinity. In truth, none of the explanations of the Godhead are very good . It's just that the concept of the Trinity is the best we've got so far. Even so, the concept of the Trinity hardly helps us to truly fathom God. However, it is the best out of all the other alternatives because it does successfully reconcile all the verses.
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Hey oopsies, sorry to be particular but the Trinity doctrine believes God is three distinct separate persons, like said definition of Mormonism ^.

The other view is that the same God is manifested in three forms. Seems like the difference is a razors edge and yet it's a big difference :)
 
jimmydiggs said:
There is only one being, and that being is God.
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The Godhead is singular and is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The Father is in the Son, the Son is in the Father and the Spirit is both in the Father and in the Son. That is the Godhead and each have their function representing and revealing one God, one Lord, one Spirit, one faith and one eternal life for the believer. The Godhead can not be separated or destroyed or made to be something less than what it is through human understanding. The Godhead is immutable and is eternal with no beginning and no ending because it was uncreated and represents uncreated life.

The Father sent the Son, the Son revealed the Father and the Spirit reveals both the Father and the Son in the heart of the believer, in whom we have our fellowship. The Spirit can not give any separate revelation of the Godhead outside the Father and the Son and those who have been begotten of God through the Spirit and the incorruptible seed of the Word can have no other understanding being indwelt by the Spirit who reveals it.

When Jesus answered His disciples when asked to show them the Father, His response was, 'Have I been so long with you and you have not known ME, if you have seen me you have seen the Father'.

That throws such a monkey wrench into the understanding of those that have a problem with the Father and the Son being equal with absolutely no difference whatsoever between them. And those who have been born of the Spirit understand that, because the Spirit reveals it to them.
 
There is revelation in the Word of God of the Trinity, No one arrive at the truth of the Trinity by mere logic and reasoning, it is revealed just as the Gospel of our Jesus Christ is revealed by faith. Despite the fact that there are countless debates on the Trinity Vs. Oneness the truth of the matter is that one doctrine is of God and the other is heresy. I believe with all my heart that God is Triune and that He has revealed and confirmed that to me by faith in His Word. The deep things of God are revealed by the Spirit of God and are not spelled out in the surface of the Word. Oneness is heresy as it derives from logic and reasoning which is tainted by sin (Adamic Reasoning) and if one carefully examines Galatians 5:20 KJV you will read that those who practice heresy will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

This is actually a very serious topic because although some people embrace the Trinity at conversion many arrive later down the road but nonetheless they accept it and rightly so since they are verifying that God is indeed truthful. As much as people say it doesn't matter whether you believe in Trinity or not because it doesn't affect your salvation, this is a straight lie. Heresy is heresy and granted we have various perspectives and interpretations of the Word, but God knows those who are ignorant obscuring or ignoring certain passages in the Word that rattles their faulty foundation of theology. They choose not to accept correction that they may promote or exalt a lie over the truth found in God's Word. God will not be mocked if anyone does not believe or accept it because they cannot understand it they should cry out for understanding (Proverbs 2) God's way are higher than our ways and His thoughts higher than our thoughts. The oneness doctrine has various loopholes because it's rooted in logic which is fallible the Trinity is Biblical although you will not find the word Trinity you will receive the revelation if you seek for it by faith. The concept and truth is in the Word of God you need to dig because again the deep things of God are not on the surface.

Here's one of the many problems for those who hold onto the oneness doctrine and this is a huge a hole to their theology.

The Word of God, Jesus Christ, proceeds from the Father accomplishing His will and purposes never returning back void, that God may be all in all. The Son after triumphing over the last enemy will then be subject back to the Father or in other words the Word be subject to whom utter it.
(Cf. Isaiah 55 & the Scripture below)

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1 Corinthians 15:22-28

Oneness theology does not hold up because how can God be subject to God that God may be all in all? HERESY is the answer! The Son after conquering death is subject back to the Father because the Son is the Word of God and thus the Word submits to Him (the Father) who spoke it. hence why the Word says that Jesus proceedeth from the Father.

Blessings,
 
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I still don't understand why I was accused of heresy , can someone please tell me?

Why is it a problem that I claim all three are God and that God can show himself in different shapes?
 
Mediate said:
To be honest, it doesn't really matter.

Jesus is God's Son.

God is the Father.

The Holy Spirit, to me, is simply love. It's the will of God. It is God.

The important part isn't what denomination you are, it's 'Do I have a giving, loving heart? Are my actions honouring Jesus' life and God's commands?' not 'Oh my, I have denied the Trinity, I must be burned'.

:)
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I believe it matters greatly! If, like the OP, you believe Jesus is not God, it matters to your eternal life! The understanding of the trinity is the understanding of God Himself!
While some Christian denominations may have differences which do not matter unto salvation, like which day to worship (IMO), some have differences that have huge consequences, such as those who claim oneness, or other such heresies. It then matters to their eternal lives.
The Word will tell us all we need to know to live Godly lives; lives that please Him, but it takes much more than preaching love, because God commands more than love for one another...He commands love for Himself!. (not to vilify you, beloved, or to say that love for our fellow men is not also greatly important!) But just to say we must delve into that Word ourselves, and be taught the Word of truth by someone with the gift for it (Rom 12:6-8; 1 Cor. 1:28) who can rightly divide it.
Of course all in Christ have the Holy Spirit, but we can see that the Lord would not gift some with the ability to teach if the Body did not need it. :)
Respectfully,
~ellie
 
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