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J
You have guilt, because the law is written upon our hearts.
Romans 2:14-16
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
The law is written upon your heart, and testifies against you. You know this is true, but don't want it to be.
Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
1 Timothy 1
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound[c] doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"
Repent and believe.
Praying the Sinner's Prayer won't save you from your sin.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo9uN76LoL0[/video]
Romans 2:14-16
14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.
The law is written upon your heart, and testifies against you. You know this is true, but don't want it to be.
Romans 1
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
1 Timothy 1
8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9 understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound[c] doctrine, 11 in accordance with the gospel of the glory of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.
Mark 1:15
"The time has come," he said. "The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!"
Repent and believe.
Praying the Sinner's Prayer won't save you from your sin.
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oo9uN76LoL0[/video]
S
Hi, new to this web sight, this topic caught my eye. My daughter told me in 2005 that she was gay, I was in shock and was trying to think fast for the right words. I love my child and will not turn my back on her. So I talk with her about everything, and I am honest with her about how I feel. I do not understand it, and do think it is a sin, but it is her sin not mine to answer for. I blamed myself , and tried to figure out how I raised a gay daughter. I am not gay, her father is not, and I do not know of any family member that is. What I do know is that she spent 10 years in the US Army, the last 5 were spent overseas in a combat zone. She has shown more courage and bravery that a lot of men or women would. She is my child and I love her for who she is not what she is to anyone else. She is a good person and God watched over her and kept her safe, he answered my prayers! Get What I Am Saying?? I sure hope so!!
God can speak to the heart of anyone; I mean, "even the waves obey Him" (Matthew 8:27, Luke 8:25). Still, we see that Jesus' closest disciples (after years of being together) turned their backs on him. I share this to highlight that humanity is different than the rest of Creation in this way: we often mess up. God knows this, so God offers help. Sadly, however, people of all thought patterns have the abilty to reject God's help in this world. "I got it," we say so frequently. Moses' "I can't" was just as self-absorbed. Remembering this, we need to be careful of STRAIGHT PRIDE-- and that of GAY. We are all human (whatever that means).
(pauses, adds more random comments)
Science has proven that babies can be born through egg and sperm donation. Well, from what I can tell, the Bible does not speak to this. Therefore, the reproduction argument is nullified. It becomes a matter of situational ethics, not capability. (I have not heavily weighed this subject, but I have no need as a single male in a world of countless orphans.)
The "not Adam and Steve" argument often shows that God intended for man to leave family and cleave to a woman (the so-called marriage right). This argument forgets another kind of person, however; the single with a straight orientation who remains celebate. Think about it: Church tradition trumpets Jesus as being celebate and never married. Also the Bible never speaks directly to Jesus' orientation (I think it was God), yet it says in Hebrews that he was tempted in EVERY way (4:15). [NOTE: This does not mean that following a temptation is good; quite the contrary (See Jesus).]
If orientation is viewed as a person's decision, then people can change. The problem is that a "God made me this way" cloud gets in the way. According to Jesus in John 9:3, however, God allowed a man's blindness; according to the text, that same God healed him. Therefore, just because one feels one is made a certain way does NOT mean that one is to remain that way.
Finally...
For whatever Reason(s), God has allowed pleasures and pains in this world, even in the hearts of individuals. Obviously, not every pain is necessary (cutting, for instance); but neither is every pleasure (fill in the blank). Therefore, I conclude this response by quoting out of context the Apostle Paul: Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial (1 Corinthians 10:23).
May each of us keep seeking and accepting God's grace and Guidance--with humility. God knows best.
(pauses, adds more random comments)
Science has proven that babies can be born through egg and sperm donation. Well, from what I can tell, the Bible does not speak to this. Therefore, the reproduction argument is nullified. It becomes a matter of situational ethics, not capability. (I have not heavily weighed this subject, but I have no need as a single male in a world of countless orphans.)
The "not Adam and Steve" argument often shows that God intended for man to leave family and cleave to a woman (the so-called marriage right). This argument forgets another kind of person, however; the single with a straight orientation who remains celebate. Think about it: Church tradition trumpets Jesus as being celebate and never married. Also the Bible never speaks directly to Jesus' orientation (I think it was God), yet it says in Hebrews that he was tempted in EVERY way (4:15). [NOTE: This does not mean that following a temptation is good; quite the contrary (See Jesus).]
If orientation is viewed as a person's decision, then people can change. The problem is that a "God made me this way" cloud gets in the way. According to Jesus in John 9:3, however, God allowed a man's blindness; according to the text, that same God healed him. Therefore, just because one feels one is made a certain way does NOT mean that one is to remain that way.
Finally...
For whatever Reason(s), God has allowed pleasures and pains in this world, even in the hearts of individuals. Obviously, not every pain is necessary (cutting, for instance); but neither is every pleasure (fill in the blank). Therefore, I conclude this response by quoting out of context the Apostle Paul: Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial (1 Corinthians 10:23).
May each of us keep seeking and accepting God's grace and Guidance--with humility. God knows best.
O
I'm sorry, I do not wish to argue with you nor do I delight in proving you wrong, but you have been greatly misinformed. Here's my proof and I urge you to look into the topic with greater depth.
KJV (Cambridge Ed.): nor abusers of themselves with mankind
Young's Literal: nor sodomites
New World (Jehovah's Witness' "Bible"): nor men who lie with men
ASV: nor abusers of themselves with men
None of the above uses "homosexual offenders" nor do they interpret as such.
I pray that you will turn from sin and towards the righteous and holiness of the Lord and to encourage others to do the same.
KJV (Cambridge Ed.): nor abusers of themselves with mankind
Young's Literal: nor sodomites
New World (Jehovah's Witness' "Bible"): nor men who lie with men
ASV: nor abusers of themselves with men
None of the above uses "homosexual offenders" nor do they interpret as such.
I pray that you will turn from sin and towards the righteous and holiness of the Lord and to encourage others to do the same.
C
By that logic, the KJv is terrible because none of the other translations use a users of themselves with mankind. Anyway back to the subject at hand, in all of the translations,it doesn't say simply being gay is a sin men who sleep with men, abuses of themselves with men,(I don't know what sodomite means). None of those(besides possibly sodomite,mi don't know what that means) saynsimply being gay is a sin, it's always some way of acting on it that is a sin.
O
I'm not sure I understand the first statement.
As for whether the KJV is a bad translation or not, I have my reservations as it is translated from Latin, and the Latin Bible was translated from Greek (the Septuagint). The Septuagint is translated from Hebrew. In other words, the KJV has gone through at least two and half translations and this not counting the dispute as to whether the New Testament was written originally in Aramaic as opposed to Greek. There are many errors in the original authorized version of the KJV (such as 'unicorn' in Deuteronomy 33:17 when 'bicorni' should have been used). If memory serves me well, the goal of the translation team for the NKJV wasn't to correct these errors. Rather, they sought to update the words so that modern readers could understand the language. They wanted to preserve the original text even with all the translational errors.
As for the issue of acting upon or not acting upon, I'm sorry but you are still in error. The word "homosexuals" used in that verse in Greek is a plural noun. Because it's a noun, it also does not have voice. Furthermore, the entire verse has no verb associated with the nominative. That portion of the verse is in fact a fragment as it forms part of a list of sins. If my grammar is correct, the definite article is at the beginning of the list which indicates the entire list is the nominative. In other words, there is no bearing as to whether you need to act or not to act in order to be sinful. That issue is irrelevant but by translating to "homosexual offenders," the NIV gives the impression that one needs to act upon it in order to be in sin (that is, the false impression given is that one can be homosexual as long as one doesn't engage in homosexual activities). The Greek makes no such indication.
As I said earlier, this is something I encourage you to pray and reflect upon deeply. There is a great deal of research and learning you will need to do. There's just too much info to present in an informal, online bulletin board. Theologians write hundred-pages papers over these topics! To begin, you may want to look up the word "sodomite." Best wishes to you.
As for whether the KJV is a bad translation or not, I have my reservations as it is translated from Latin, and the Latin Bible was translated from Greek (the Septuagint). The Septuagint is translated from Hebrew. In other words, the KJV has gone through at least two and half translations and this not counting the dispute as to whether the New Testament was written originally in Aramaic as opposed to Greek. There are many errors in the original authorized version of the KJV (such as 'unicorn' in Deuteronomy 33:17 when 'bicorni' should have been used). If memory serves me well, the goal of the translation team for the NKJV wasn't to correct these errors. Rather, they sought to update the words so that modern readers could understand the language. They wanted to preserve the original text even with all the translational errors.
As for the issue of acting upon or not acting upon, I'm sorry but you are still in error. The word "homosexuals" used in that verse in Greek is a plural noun. Because it's a noun, it also does not have voice. Furthermore, the entire verse has no verb associated with the nominative. That portion of the verse is in fact a fragment as it forms part of a list of sins. If my grammar is correct, the definite article is at the beginning of the list which indicates the entire list is the nominative. In other words, there is no bearing as to whether you need to act or not to act in order to be sinful. That issue is irrelevant but by translating to "homosexual offenders," the NIV gives the impression that one needs to act upon it in order to be in sin (that is, the false impression given is that one can be homosexual as long as one doesn't engage in homosexual activities). The Greek makes no such indication.
As I said earlier, this is something I encourage you to pray and reflect upon deeply. There is a great deal of research and learning you will need to do. There's just too much info to present in an informal, online bulletin board. Theologians write hundred-pages papers over these topics! To begin, you may want to look up the word "sodomite." Best wishes to you.
E
While you're probably correct in this case, this is not a general rule. Substantives can imply activity or passivity.
The word, unfortunately, doesn't have a wide usage before Paul's use. However, the word is made up of "men + bed." Not "men + lust" or "men + would really like to sleep with each other."
At face value, it does not apply to a celibate, who has never bedded anybody else, much less a man. Is this the way Paul meant it? If not, he should have used a more common word that indicated an inclination, not the place where the sin usually occurs.
The word, unfortunately, doesn't have a wide usage before Paul's use. However, the word is made up of "men + bed." Not "men + lust" or "men + would really like to sleep with each other."
At face value, it does not apply to a celibate, who has never bedded anybody else, much less a man. Is this the way Paul meant it? If not, he should have used a more common word that indicated an inclination, not the place where the sin usually occurs.
T
I think you missed what the original poster was asking. Perhaps you did not read her post thoroughly
She said she did know all the verses in the Bible that speak against homosexuality. Clearly, this would be one of them.
She also said that she knows a lot of gay people today who feel that, although they are gay, they are not "homosexual offenders." They feel that they have found a balance in their lives, whereby they are not practicing something that is immoral in God's eyes. Are there homosexual acts that are immoral? Yes, of course, just as there are heterosexual acts that are immoral.
And I think we all agree that if a homosexual person remains celibate, there is no sin in that.
The question she is raising is in where we draw the line, and why. Quoting Scripture at her, without adding something new, is not really going to answer her question.
She said she did know all the verses in the Bible that speak against homosexuality. Clearly, this would be one of them.
She also said that she knows a lot of gay people today who feel that, although they are gay, they are not "homosexual offenders." They feel that they have found a balance in their lives, whereby they are not practicing something that is immoral in God's eyes. Are there homosexual acts that are immoral? Yes, of course, just as there are heterosexual acts that are immoral.
And I think we all agree that if a homosexual person remains celibate, there is no sin in that.
The question she is raising is in where we draw the line, and why. Quoting Scripture at her, without adding something new, is not really going to answer her question.