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TheGrungeDiva

Guest
Please don't put words in my mouth and jump to conclusions.

They had (and still do have) rules and regulations and consequences for breaking them. It doesn't matter what time period you live in, or what country you live in, you'll still be accountable to God for your sins, and you'll still need forgiveness from Jesus. Throughout the Old Testament, you see sin being punishable by death. Heck, you see this in the New Testament too in Romans 6:23. My point is, sins have consequences.
If you don't think children should be stoned to death for being rebellious (and I'm very glad to hear you don't!), then you need to respond to the previous posters original question: By what authority do you reject this particular Scripture?

This particular Scripture says that overly disobedient children should be stoned to death. Yes, I agree that sins have consequences, but that is not what this particular Scripture says. It says children should be stoned for disobedience. That the context of the verse indicates the disobedience must be "severe and repeated" does not change the fact that it says children should be stoned to death.

Clearly, we do not follow this particular Scripture literally any more. We re-interpret this particular verse, and with good reason.

The other poster is making a simple point -- as have good Christians for centuries: you have admitted to rejecting Scripture. Scripture says kill your son or daughter. You say, no, that is not what we are to do today. In that society that is the way it may have been done, but in today's society, we are to take a different tact. Sins are to be punished, but death to a child for rebellious behavior is clearly not right.

So, if you're allowed to reject this particular Scripture, in light of the Gospel, how can you turn around and tell someone else they're not allowed to reject another Scripture, in light of the Gospel? What makes your rejection "okay" and not theirs?
 
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megaman125

Guest
How is your re-interpretation valid? By what authority are you allowed to re-interpret? Isn't re-interpreting also a form of rejection?

You do make some other good points, and I'm not going to address those yet. I'm not trying to be evasive, but I need some time to ponder this. I'm not attempting to reject scripture though.
 
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Bubba30

Guest
If you don't think children should be stoned to death for being rebellious (and I'm very glad to hear you don't!), then you need to respond to the previous posters original question: By what authority do you reject this particular Scripture?

This particular Scripture says that overly disobedient children should be stoned to death. Yes, I agree that sins have consequences, but that is not what this particular Scripture says. It says children should be stoned for disobedience. That the context of the verse indicates the disobedience must be "severe and repeated" does not change the fact that it says children should be stoned to death.

Clearly, we do not follow this particular Scripture literally any more. We re-interpret this particular verse, and with good reason.

The other poster is making a simple point -- as have good Christians for centuries: you have admitted to rejecting Scripture. Scripture says kill your son or daughter. You say, no, that is not what we are to do today. In that society that is the way it may have been done, but in today's society, we are to take a different tact. Sins are to be punished, but death to a child for rebellious behavior is clearly not right.

So, if you're allowed to reject this particular Scripture, in light of the Gospel, how can you turn around and tell someone else they're not allowed to reject another Scripture, in light of the Gospel? What makes your rejection "okay" and not theirs?
Because those laws were given to the nation of Israel. I can't find anywhere in the New Testament where it says to stone a rebellious son (by the way the Hebrew suggest they were young men, not children) but I can find where the New Testament says that homosexuality is wrong.
 
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megaman125

Guest
Ok, I'm back. Thank you GrungeDiva for challenging me. Now to address the topic at hand. I stand by what I said earlier, but as you pointed out Diva, there are some areas where I need to expand/clarify upon what I said.

The Law of the Lord is perfect...
Psalm 19:7

I believe the whole Bible is true, and that would include Psalm 19:7. Of course, this would bring up the case of capital punishment. If you reject, reinterperet, or say that the capital punishment passages are not relevant, than what you're saying is that God's law is not perfect or that God has changed. In this case, the atheist/agnostic (HolyMoly, referring to you) is more intellectually honest.

There are 2 types of people, those with good seed/fruit, and those with bad seed/fruit. Those with good seed will seek knowledge of God and understanding of God's Word. Those with bad seed do not desire the Word of God, but rather comfort doctrine that suits their interests. This will only turn people away from believing.

preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound doctrine, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Timothy 4:2-3

With that in mind, let's revisit the question of "should we stone our children?"

If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey the voice of his father or the voice of his mother, and though they discipline him, will not listen to them, then his father and his mother shall take hold of him and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gate of the place where he lives, and they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This our son is stubborn and rebellious; he will not obey our voice;he is a glutton and a drunkard.' Then all the men of the city shall stone him to death with stones. So you shall purge the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

As I said earlier, this is talking about severe and repeated disobedience, and also the despising of God's Word.

I bolded it last time, but I missed perhaps the most important part. The parents are the ones initiating this process, but they're not the ones doing the stoning. The parents bring them to the elders of the city, who were in charge of the court system. Currently, there is no country in the world that's applying the court system of the Biblical doctrine. Let's look at some qualities/characteristics of this court system.

You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment.
Deuteronomy 16:18

Emphasis on the righteous part. That means not killing innocent people, or implementing capital punishment when it shouldn't be. Capital punishment was rare to be executed, and any judge in this system implementing more than 2 stonings within 7 years was considered to be bloodthirsty, and would thereby not be judging with righteous judgment like Deuteronomy 16:18 says.

And I charged your judges at that time, 'Hear the cases between your brothers, and judge righteously between a man and his brother or the alien who is with him. You shall not be partial in judgment. You shall hear the small and the great alike. You shall not be intimidated by anyone, for the judgment is God's. And the case that is too hard for you, you shall bring to me, and I will hear it.'
Deuteronomy 1:16-17

Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.
Exodus 23:7

Clearly the Bible and God does not support capital punishment on someone who is innocent, or for offenses that are not worthy of capital punishment (like my example of someone who comes home 5 minutes late of their curfew). There was an extensive investigation, with all parties being given a fair evaluation.

then you shall inquire and make search and ask diligently. And behold, if it be true and certain that such an abomination has been done among you,...
Deuteronomy 13:14

You also need more than just one witness for this case.

A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.
Deuteronomy 19:15

And I hope I don't have quote where the Bible opposes false witnesses. So to answer the question at hand, no, I would not stone my children, for several reasons, none of which involve "picking and choosing" what parts of the Bible to accept/reject. First, it's not even the parents that do the stoning, it has to go through the elders and the court system first. Me practicing the capital punishment laws in Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (and other places in the Bible) would actually be breaking the Biblical laws. These laws were given for the Biblical court and the elders, just like there are laws for men, laws for women, and laws for children. And in this regard, the question of "do you stone your children" is invalidated since this isn't a law for the parents to execute, but for the elders and the courts.
 
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oopsies

Guest
Participles are one example of a substantive that can carry voice, certainly. But I'm talking about something more primitive than that. If I read the word "man+car" are necessarily going to hell, I'd understand that meant someone who actually drove, rather than someone who was somehow inclined to. If I meant to imply somebody who wanted to, I have other, standard vocabulary for that.
Thanks for the clarification. I cannot think of an example off the top of my head at the moment but I will keep an eye out in my readings.

I'd suggest that there is at least one more. All thought about adultery, proclivity towards adultery, etc. is not equivalent to adultery. Lust is not mere attraction. If someone sits down and thinks through an entire sexual escapade, then there's a problem. But there are much more subtle manifestations of the same thing that a person may not so responsible for.

As an example, a lot of attraction happens on a subconscious level - it can be shown that men and women react to even subtle stimuli before they've had a chance to form thoughts about it. Some men's eyes begin to dilate then moment they see a hint of something attractive, which could, in fact, turn out to be a scandalous fruit. If we roll all manifestations of homosexuality into one, put a stamp on it, call it all a sin, we have far fewer means by which to help people who, in my view, genuinely aren't sinning but are nevertheless dealing with the possibility of sin.

I believe the temptation, inclination, and even mindless ideation aren't in themselves sinful, but people are being made to feel they are a sin and therefore are less likely to seek help. The boy who's been told his "interesting" dream is sinful, even though he apparently exercised no will in bringing it about, may have just been cut off from confession of the things he actually does will.

I'm not, by the way, trying to fit this into any worldview - I simply disagree. Guessing at each other's hidden goals (hidden perhaps even to themselves) won't help.

If the word had larger attestation in Greek literature, we wouldn't need to read into it. I don't think looking into its etymology is an any sense looking too much into the word, especially given its lack of historical context.

In fact, I think implying the word has a clear meaning is a worse mistake. There is no surface reading for a word that, if it existed before Paul used it, wasn't used enough for other examples to have survived.
As an example of how rarely this word was used and why it's therefore necessary to read it carefully, here's a frequency search from Perseus, my favorite during my college years:

Word Frequency Information

It's worth keeping in mind that subsequent translators had as much available to them as we do; i.e. very little more than the etymology.
This reminds me of the debates around Acts 13:48. I know we will not be agreeing on the translation and the meaning of 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 any time soon. But, I think between the two of us (and added with the replies from others), there exists a well-rounded view of the entire issue. You've been a challenging debater on this. You may not know it but if left to my own devices, I would have naturally wanted to plow through every response with a bulldozer and wrecking ball. ;) So I thank you for providing me the learning opportunity to refine my responses in a way pleasing to the Lord. As I feel that we've pretty much reached the end of the road, I will provide my final thoughts on the matter and I look forward to reading the same from you.

Regarding the view that temptation, inclination, and even mindless ideation aren't sinful in themselves, I would have to disagree on that. I would agree that those are not active sinful actions in of themselves (for example, wet dreams) but because of original sin, even wet dreams are "sinful." The theology I hold to, as you can probably surmise by now, would say that to help someone struggling with such "dreams" or "thoughts", the best way is to say it as it is - it is sin and it is sin that cannot be controlled. We are so sinful that even our dreams, our thoughts, and our natural tendencies will always gravitate toward sin-nature. It's the same reason why children can be cruel to each other even though they may not realize they are sinning. I'm sure children are capable of committing murder if parents and society weren't around to keep them in check. That is why even if we can carry out all the laws of God perfectly, we are still so far from him because of original sin. We are so depraved, worth so little that even the dirt we stand upon could be worth more than us. But for some unfathomable reason, God, in his holiness and love, wants to give us a way out - all the more reason we need Christ's saving grace and how blessed it is that wretches like us would be given such an undeserved gift!

Nevertheless, I do not believe that point is relevant to the verse we are looking at. In its context, the verse refers to those who are unrighteous. Strong defines it as "one who breaks God's laws," Kittel defines it as "servants of iniquity or ungodly," and Grosvenor defines it as "wrongdoers." This verse isn't about unknowingingly commiting sin or uncontrollable thoughts - this is about people who made the choice to violate God's laws.

In any case, you make an emphasis on the point of the rarity of arsenokoites. Your premise is that due to the rare use of the word (at least from the records we've found), we cannot assume that the word means specifically "homosexuals". It's no secret that I disagree with that assessment. ;) But suppose I am wrong (I am human, after all) and we cannot say that the word means "homosexuals".

To begin, for simplicity's sake, let's just stick with the masculine male gender. If we do not know the meaning of the word other than "men + bed" then we have the following possibilities:

1. Two men lying side by side in bed without sex
a) e.g. brothers in a family or friends on a camping trip in a small, single tent - no sex, no sexual relationship implied)
b) e.g. partners but not having sex, romance
c) e.g. consensual & non-consensual (straight men experimenting, rapist & victim, etc.)

2. Two men lying side by side in bed but in the context of sexual activity
a) consensual (e.g. homosexual lovers or perhaps even more perverse sins such as homosexual incest)
b) consensual prostitution (e.g. monetary, not necessarily with romantic interest, sexual experimentation)
c) rape (e.g. not including victim - that is, rapist, non-consensual prostitution - that is, slavery/forced prostitution)

Since we do not know what the word means, it can be any one of the above. But to narrow down the choices, we can look elsewhere. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 contains a laundry list of sins. The first part is about sexual sins and right after arsenokoitai, a complete switch from sexual sins to pretty much everything else starting with "thieves". (For idolatry, ref. Romans 1:18-32, ref. ISBE print 'idolatry') It is reasonable to assume that "men + bed" falls under the first category. 1.a can be eliminated from being a possibility.

But we still do not know what the word means. It can still be one of several other possibilities. Furthermore, is there a possibility that Paul refers only to the actual act rather than the fantasy/thought? Hence, we now look to the section of sexual sins for some commonality or insight. The most defined and well-documented sin in that list is "adultery". In Matthew 5:27-28, Jesus makes a clear-cut distinction between act and thought. A married man who looks at another woman with lust would have commited adultery in his heart even thought he may not have physically committed adultery. This isn't even at the stage of fantasy and it's already sinful. Yet, Paul makes no distinction between thought and act for "adultery" in verse 9 even though it is so well-defined and by Jesus himself, no less. From this parallel, we can conclude that the stylistics does not allow us to suggest that arsenokoitai makes a distinction between thought and act. Can, say, two men (lovers) simply sleep together but with no sex? In other words, celibate gays? No, because of the parallel with adultery. To identify oneself as a "celibate gay" requires a consensual relationship - lust cannot be avoided. Whatever arsenokoitai means, it is inclusive of 1.b and 1.c.

This leaves us with 2.a, b, and c to contend with. Is there a possibility that the word can be about just prostitutes or just rapists and have nothing to do with homosexuals? We know this is about sexual sins but can one or more be eliminated from list #2? Maybe we can do something with "consensual" and "non-consensual". Well, the verse is about sinning on purpose (see above, ref. unrighteous). So, non-consensual doesn't work. We can eliminate 2.c. This leaves us with 2.a and b.

At this point, we still don't know what the definition means. Personally, I would narrow it further and eliminate 2.b since prostitution is rarely consensual in Paul's time (and even today as well). But there people who enter prostitution because they want to so let's not eliminate 2.b. This leaves us with a definition that includes homosexuals and prostitutes neither of which can yet be eliminated from the definition. This suits me just fine if one wants to have a catch-all definition that includes both homosexuals and prostitutes under the list of sexual sins. So instead of one group (just homosexuals), the definition has been expanded to include two groups (homosexuals and prostitutes).

That's my concluding summary of the stance that says arsenokoitai in 1 Corinthians 6:9 refers to homosexuals.
 
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oopsies

Guest
See, the reasoning don't trust What you said before to be true(about the translations) is because there is a little known fact about the Internet...not everything on it it true.
I thank you for the compliment but to be honest, I would not want you to trust me even though I got it from my own readings. It is for the same reason that we should not always trust what our pastors tell us. But as Paul teaches the church in Ephesus (1 Timothy), test everything with Scripture. Just be careful not to take things too far (Revelation 2:1-7). May God reveal more of his Word to you every day.
 

ForthAngel

Senior Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,171
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i haven't read the comments, i just wanted to share my opinion. i have not personally looked this up scripturally, so this is coming all from me. i have had several gay friends, one of them a really good friend i met in a crisis treatment center. i don't condemn them or belittle them for their choice, but i make it known that i don't agree with it. i tend to disagree with the point people try to make and say they are born with it. i haven't studied biology or scripture enough to prove or disprove my belief, but the first thought that comes to mind is unnatural. we advance ourselves through procreation, which is a divine gift. i think misusing this gift, which we are commanded not to do, and abusing it for personal lust is in fact a sin. that would include homosexuality because God gave this gift for husband and wife, not husband and husband, or boyfriend and boyfriend, or even boyfriend and girlfriend for that matter. the act of sexual intercourse isn't sanctified outside of marriage.

this guy i mentioned, well, he had this for me. animals, like dogs, have homosexual intercourse. which is true. i have seen a guy dog hump another guy dog before. yeah well, i'm not an animal so.. lol. i dunno. that is my opinion.
 
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quakerzen

Guest
Upfront (not that it matters), I am not gay.

That being said, I don't know how I feel about whether or not being gay and acting on it is a sin or not...but right now, I'm thinking that it's not. Again: I DON'T KNOW ECACTLY HOW I FEEL.

I know all of the verses that people use to point out that it is wrong and not how God created it.

BUT, I've also heard views on the other side of it. I also study a bit of ancient history in school and know that man-on-man action in the Bible wasn't what it is today. Then, it was talking about rape and that has never been ok. (I also don't have all the facts on this.)

I know Christians who are gay and are ok with God. They feel that it is not a sin (and I know they aren't justifying their sin by saying this--they've actually experienced God's comfort in who they are with this...meaning that they are gay).

So, I was wondering if anyone on here is gay and would like to share how they feel in their relationship with God on this.

Comments from straight people are welcome, too, of course.

I've just been incredibly curious and confused about this for a while.
I sin, probably every day. So do you, so does every preacher, and every self righteous person in this room saying that gays can't be Christians, but liars, adulterers, murderers and robbers (ya know, the acts that God thought were so bad, He made them part of 10 big laws you have to follow) can be... Saying someone "isn't a real Christian" is like saying you know how this person feels and saying that you know what's in someone's heart. Which, of course, is impossible, unless you're a psychic, which I'm pretty sure none of these people on this thread are...
 

chip

Banned
Aug 29, 2012
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Sexual sin, is sexual sin, whether it is homosexual in nature or adultery, and God disapproves. While I was in college, I had a number of homosexual friends, of all persuasion. Sadly, a number of them died due to complications for their activities. Two, I was able to reach for Jesus and one remains alive and a friend in spite of knowing where I stand on the issue of all sexual sin.

Personally, I find it fascinating that the church takes a strong stand against a single form of sexual sin and a blind eye to others. Makes on wonder at whom is driving debate - God or Satan. (psst: God would go after all sin, only Satan needs to invalidate the Christian witness through single sided, single issue causes.)
 
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Chinekwu

Guest
I believe SIN IS still SIN......There is nowhere in the Bible that expresses that homosexuality is ok..
if it was ok,then why the feelings of guilt which people seem to have??? why the complications? why the debates?
Don''t you think God would've made it clear in His Word that it was ok just like He made it clear in about how a MAN would leave his parents and cleave to his WIFE?? Just like He made Adam's help mate to be a female?? Dont you think an all-knowing God would've made it clear to His creation which isnt perfect or all-knowing? God is not an author of confusion...but of peace!
 
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quakerzen

Guest
I believe SIN IS still SIN......There is nowhere in the Bible that expresses that homosexuality is ok..
if it was ok,then why the feelings of guilt which people seem to have??? why the complications? why the debates?
Don''t you think God would've made it clear in His Word that it was ok just like He made it clear in about how a MAN would leave his parents and cleave to his WIFE?? Just like He made Adam's help mate to be a female?? Dont you think an all-knowing God would've made it clear to His creation which isnt perfect or all-knowing? God is not an author of confusion...but of peace!
People that are gay have guilt and complications because, in most cases, their families beat it (sometimes physically) into them that what they are is wrong and disgusting. If you were attacked from a young age and told that what you are is wrong, wouldn't you have guilt too?
 
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Angelus1

Guest
Leviticus 18:22 'heresy called a man sleeps with another man. Heresy at that time not a sin, impurity meant. According to the Levites were eating shellfish heresy. Leviticus 20:13 A man sleeps with another man should be punished with death is called. Those who commit adultery or who do not obey their parents say the same thing in children. Need to better understand the Bible .. The Old Testament "is not a virgin on the wedding night a girl is sent to her father's house and stoned to death by the people killed in the Bible is called .. Written and interpreted. Interpreting the influence of the period thick. Homosexuality is not a sin. Confess that greed, adultery etc.. ( My English is not very good. Therefore, I'm sorry )
 
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heirofChrist

Guest
well we got to go purely off of the Word of God, and homosexuality is a sin.
 
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episkopos

Guest
1 Timothy 6:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
The reason why a thing of the sort would be justified by anyone is because the devil is a deceiver, he's not always going to come up front and play obvious. Unfortunately this deceit spreads like a cancer corrupting the minds and hearts of many. In the wilderness Satan attempted using scripture to tempt Jesus so it's not surprising he'd twist scripture or related means to make homosexuals feel "comforted" . Making excuses even justifying our sin and blaming our nature , instead of looking unto Jesus as said in Heb 12:1 is definitely not true repentance ; which is what will actually get you saved not vague claims. Accepting we NEED redemption is rather crucial to our salvation. Homosexuals should not be condemned because that is not the love of God; their actions like any other sin however shouldn't be taken lightly. Jesus came to release us from any bondage so by God's grace we should provide the best working conditions for God to allow the manifestation of this. Homosexuality is a bondage[very much interchangeable with demonic activity]
Homosexuality is an unnatural act and one of the unfortunate outcomes of demonic activity. Of course, we do not condemn homosexuals. They are human beings created by God, and Christ died for all of us. Those of us who are not homosexuals may have even worse perversions in our lives for which we need the grace of God.

Today, there are websites for people who would like to have sex with animals like dogs, snakes, horses, etc. There are women who have specially trained dogs they have sex with. These are all unfortunate and unnatural perversions. The origins of this dehumanizing behaviour are demonic. Is there anything unnatural in your life? Perhaps demons are giving you these unnatural tendencies.
Excerpt From: Dag Heward-Mills. “How to Recognise Demons at Work.” Dag Heward-Mills, 2012-07-28T15:52:34+00:00. iBooks.
This material may be protected by copyright.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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I felt i was gay for a while because of society boxing me into a label because of my kind personality and me not feeling like i wanted a girlfriend or boyfriend. But then i fleed from the lies that Satan dragged me through society. I'm asexua. I am like God. I Don't like woman or men sexualy.. i am not married and don't plan to be. God gave me the gift of celebacy which he talks about in Corrinthians under marriege. Not many people like me in the world. I feel left out when im not physically attracted to anyone.. or dont even feel romantic love.
 
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Rask

Guest
A lot of Christians assume that it's a lifestyle choice, but that's not what I hear from people who are gay.
Lets go to the other side of this statement and for arguments sake, let's say that indeed, like other people who are born with ailments and or afflictions, gayness might be one of those. Meaning, that this may be a reason you're not hearing that it's a choice from the homosexual person.

As pointed out by others, being a homosexual is frowned upon in Christianity and by God.

A person born with an affliction such as a missing arm or leg or toe etc. Or a person born afflicted with a disease will often make a choice to help them self by using whatever means medicine might can help with. I:E a person missing a limb would try to be fitted with a prosthesis. A person with a disease, might be put on medication their whole life to deal with it. So, if indeed Homosexuality is not a choice, but truly is another form of affliction, then there is medical treatment for that as well.

One might argue, that since homosexuality is something very much frowned upon and even considered a sin by biblical notations and something that would keep a person's soul from entering the Kingdom of Heaven, then they certainly (if wanted to be washed of this terrible affliction) would indeed seek medical attention. Meaning if had to be, a complete physical gender change. In this, they would have a physical body to match what was in their heart and soul.

Doing nothing though is a choice as much as doing something is. SoiIf the homosexual does nothing, then they accept what they do and are and are living of the flesh instead of trying to live by and in the the word of God.

My dilemma in this comes from the new testament when Jesus speaks on the mound about being saved by water and the acceptance of him as the savior of man. Do this and you will enter the kingdom of heaven. And of course part of being saved is: "Go and sin no more" for you have been at that point forgiven of all your sins once saved, but being saved doesn't mean you get to go out and do all the same ole sinful things again just because you were forgiven. So can a homosexual be saved! Yes I believe so! but they have to make the choice to fix the affliction, and go and sin no more I would think.

Many Christens might think that it must be a choice to be homosexual, because it doesn't seem reasonable that God would allow such a sinful affliction to ever be put upon any of his children at birth.
 
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Rask

Guest
An added note to my original post is:

I've read nowhere in any version of the bible where being afflicted with no limbs ,no hearing, no sight, no touch, taste or feel or disease is anything sinful. But there are plenty of passages in the bible which speak of the sinfulness of homosexuality and the deceptiveness and lies that the satin will try to do. In the end it comes down to the choice each person makes and wants to follow. Follow the right way and eternal life eventually will be bestowed to you. Follow the wrong way and you are dead forever.
 
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Bmp

Guest
The bottom line is that it is not a true Christians job to judge. I don't believe that being gay is a sin but those Christians who do believe it should think before you speak. Anyone who would abuse or harm another human being is not living true Christian values. God is love, acting out of hate is not what he wants for us.
 
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BarlyGurl

Guest
The bottom line is that it is not a true Christians job to judge. I don't believe that being gay is a sin but those Christians who do believe it should think before you speak. Anyone who would abuse or harm another human being is not living true Christian values. God is love, acting out of hate is not what he wants for us.

Yet another who either does NOT read the bible, has a reading defficiency, or simply REFUSES to accept what the bible says... :rolleyes:. The mantra is as false as it is OLD.