Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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Gpianolf said:
Usually, this debate arises when people compare Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology. I find I can't subscribe to either one fully. There's a healthy middle ground and, if I remember correctly, it's called Progressive Covenantalism. We, as Gentiles, do not replace Israel, but not all Jews are going to heaven either. Belief in Christ is the only prerequisite to entering Heaven, no questions asked. But there aren't two peoples. Since we are grafted in, we are all one branch. So in the end, there are only parts of those two branches of theology that get it right, in my opinion.
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My argument with replacement theology is that is ignores much prophecy and also ignores reality. Israel exists. For some, that is hard to accept. For me, I look on Google Earth and it's there.

It is clear to me that God's plans include literal Israel. Those who argue have to relegate everything to the realm of symbolism. For example, during the great tribulation, 12,000 young men from 12 tribes will preach the gospel to the world. I don't accept that as symbolism.

It is also clear that there is no separate salvation for Jews. That heresy is promoted by John Hagee and some others. I don't know how they get that idea any more than I can understand the replacement people. Sure, when Israel was not a nation, it was understandable. Even then some believers saw it coming, as far back as the 17th century.
 
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cv5 said:
Let me help you : see Ezekiel 40-48.
The chapters that the replacement theologians love to hate....:sneaky:
They have no answer.
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Way too easy.
Those chapters are so clearly and obviously about the second temple restoration that there is nothing left to debate.
God delights in the second temple and gives exact instructions and measurements.
Not the temple of the AC.
Temples are for sacrifice, and Jesus is the final sacrifice.
God does not delight in a third temple made with hands,
because Jesus IS the third temple.
 
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Dispys don't have spiritual understanding to realize that the Israel of God, ie, spiritual Israel, ie, Israel ruled by God, never stopped existing and will never cease to exist. Thus the fulfillment of prophecy
 
The bible nowhere literally says that 12,000 young men from 12 tribes will preach the gospel to the world. Yet dispys claim that is literal. Basically dispy sensationalism is just making up stuff and calling it literal.
 
cv5 said:
There was never a gentile who became an Israelite, that much is true.
And not once, ever, is a gentile defined as an Israelite in Scripture.
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There are two different answers to that.
One is physical and the other is spiritual.
The spiritual answer carries more weight, because physical relation to Jacob was not enough in itself to make a person an heir to the promises of Abraham.

There were conditions attached, like circumcision for males (Genesis 17:10-14).
Notice that in v. 14 that the uncircumcised male has broken God's covenant and "shall be cut off from his people".
It is not possible for an Israelite to be cut off from his people and still have a land inheritance in the promised land.
He may technically be a physical descendant of Jacob while living among the Gentiles, but due to his disobedience and unbelief the claim is of little consequence.

There are of course more conditions than that regarding the promise.
Moses added many more terms and conditions, some of which required a temple to obey.

Then there are the blessings and curses of Deuteronomy.
Fail there and the consequences are every bit as bad as refusing to be circumcised.

So who is there that is still faithful in all these things?
I am sure that you know that there has only been one man in the entire history, and He is the one who pays the transgressions of those to whom He extends His mercy.

On these grounds fair to say that the seed of Abraham and the inheritor of all the promises, including the everlasting land promise, is Jesus.
The New Testament supports this view

Consider Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Also
Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
I asked a question first. You make my point when you're unable to answer it.
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I do not know which book you have consulted to get your litmus test for racism, but if you can answer my question you will already have the answer to yours without me having to say anything.
My work is done here.
Mathew 7:3
 
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Beekeeper said:
I do not know which book you have consulted to get your litmus test for racism, but if you can answer my question you will already have the answer to yours without me having to say anything.
My work is done here.
Mathew 7:3
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You do know the Book I have consulted. You won't answer, fine, making my point for me.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
No. It isn't. This is about prophesy and the end times. You didn't start the thread.
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Here's the thread for the war

Gideon300

Thread 'Revolution in Iran'

47 years ago, with the complicity of America and the UK, Iran underwent a revolution. The end result was a brutal and murderous Muslim regime. The regime stared down America, who allowed their embassy to be occupied for over a year.

Iranians are not a backwards people. They are not ethnically Muslims. Over the years, they have taken to the streets to try and get at least some relief from the regime's brutality. So far, it has not worked. Iranians are desperate. The regime's policies direct vast resources into the military with the intent of destroying Israel. People are hungry, water is...
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~~ Blessed Sabbath Folks ~~

The Lord has impressed upon me that modern "Christianity" is very much simpler than I first thought, almost a year ago, when I first started posting here in these forums.

There are just TWO religious systems in the world TODAY, all the way back to Eden. One the Spirit of Able, the other the spirit of Cain. One of obedience, the other of disobedience.

Satan has been very proficient at deceiving most folks all through history, into believing his Doctrines of Disobedience. So TODAY, most all men are following after and believing Satan, rather than Jesus.

As in the days of Noah. Matthew 24:37-39 , Luke 17:26-27 Most men preferred to believe Satan and continue in their lusts for the world, rather than believing (Noah) Jesus, the Word.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++​
 
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Here's the thread for the war

Gideon300

Thread 'Revolution in Iran'

47 years ago, with the complicity of America and the UK, Iran underwent a revolution. The end result was a brutal and murderous Muslim regime. The regime stared down America, who allowed their embassy to be occupied for over a year.

Iranians are not a backwards people. They are not ethnically Muslims. Over the years, they have taken to the streets to try and get at least some relief from the regime's brutality. So far, it has not worked. Iranians are desperate. The regime's policies direct vast resources into the military with the intent of destroying Israel. People are hungry, water is...
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Topics overlap.
 
Slimsumo said:
What camp would you put me in then? I do believe that the Jews have a future national repentance ahead prior to the return of Christ Jesus. I believe that the unbelieving branches from Israel were broken off in the 1st century, those who rejected Christ, and that believing Jews remained in the tree, whereas believing gentiles were grafted into that tree. (One new man in Christ)

Where I would disagree with the full preterists and idealists is that they don't think the Jews have any guaranteed national renewal, and where I would disagree with the dispensationalists is the return to old covenant judaism during the kingdom period they believe is coming, and the blind support for the secular state of Israel.
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Martin Luther
  • "On the Jews and Their Lies" (1543): In this treatise, he called for:
  • to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them
  • to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians
  • to take away Jewish religious writings
  • to forbid rabbis from preaching
  • to offer no protection to Jews on highways
  • for usury to be prohibited and for all Jews' silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert
  • to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow Luther's later writings were heavily used by the Nazi party to justify their antisemitic policies and actions during the Holocaust. AI Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth"
  • John Chrysostom (c. 347–407): Known for his Homilies Against the Jews, he described synagogues as "places of shame" "dens of demons" and labeled Jews as "inveterate murderers" "destroyers" and "beasts".
  • Augustine of Hippo (354–430): While rejecting physical violence, he argued that Jews were destined to suffer, branding them a "disgraced people" who should exist only to bear witness to the truth of Christianity, a doctrine sometimes called the "theology of the witness".
  • Jerome (c. 347–420): Described the synagogue as a "brothel" and used deeply hostile language to characterize Jewish worship.
  • Theological Themes: Early leaders frequently employed the "deicide" charge (collective responsibility for killing Jesus) and accused Jews of misinterpreting the scriptures, labeling them carnal and legally blind. These ideals of Replacement Theology didn't come out of nowhere. This is where Antisemitism grew greatly and we, unfortunately, have people that still believe the Jews are no longer precious to God. That God is done with them. Yet here they are working along with Trump coming against Iran and making history.
 
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Martin Luther
  • "On the Jews and Their Lies" (1543): In this treatise, he called for:
  • to burn down Jewish synagogues and schools and warn people against them
  • to refuse to let Jews own houses among Christians
  • to take away Jewish religious writings
  • to forbid rabbis from preaching
  • to offer no protection to Jews on highways
  • for usury to be prohibited and for all Jews' silver and gold to be removed, put aside for safekeeping, and given back to Jews who truly convert
  • to give young, strong Jews flail, axe, spade, and spindle, and let them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow Luther's later writings were heavily used by the Nazi party to justify their antisemitic policies and actions during the Holocaust. AI Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth"
  • John Chrysostom (c. 347–407): Known for his Homilies Against the Jews, he described synagogues as "places of shame" "dens of demons" and labeled Jews as "inveterate murderers" "destroyers" and "beasts".
  • Augustine of Hippo (354–430): While rejecting physical violence, he argued that Jews were destined to suffer, branding them a "disgraced people" who should exist only to bear witness to the truth of Christianity, a doctrine sometimes called the "theology of the witness".
  • Jerome (c. 347–420): Described the synagogue as a "brothel" and used deeply hostile language to characterize Jewish worship.
  • Theological Themes: Early leaders frequently employed the "deicide" charge (collective responsibility for killing Jesus) and accused Jews of misinterpreting the scriptures, labeling them carnal and legally blind. These ideals of Replacement Theology didn't come out of nowhere. This is where Antisemitism grew greatly and we, unfortunately, have people that still believe the Jews are no longer precious to God. That God is done with them. Yet here they are working along with Trump coming against Iran and making history.
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All of that hate mongering must stop once and for all. And it will inevitably.
Tragically, it will reach its crescendo at the time of Jacobs trouble.
 
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cv5 said:
All of that hate mongering must stop once and for all. And it will inevitably.
Tragically, it will reach its crescendo at the time of Jacobs trouble.
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Right. That's why it's been said that Replacement Theology led straight to the Holocaust. Six million Jews lost their lives because of that POV. That is why I argue so strongly against it.
 
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