Christ will return with resurrected Israel to judge the nations and then set up his kingdom on earth.
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
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And this has been debunked in these threads a hundred times. God knows who the Jews are. He doesn't need you all to try and find them. He hasn't lost them. He will keep the promises He made, Romans 11 says so. I'm saying this for the benefit of new people that come here, especially new Christians. Read Romans for yourself.
God is a Zionist, He gave the land, He made unconditional promises, He will keep them. Antisemitism is used when it's appropriate. If one sees it as a slur one should change their POV and their talking points instead of blaming others for calling them out.
What camp would you put me in then? I do believe that the Jews have a future national repentance ahead prior to the return of Christ Jesus. I believe that the unbelieving branches from Israel were broken off in the 1st century, those who rejected Christ, and that believing Jews remained in the tree, whereas believing gentiles were grafted into that tree. (One new man in Christ)
Where I would disagree with the full preterists and idealists is that they don't think the Jews have any guaranteed national renewal, and where I would disagree with the dispensationalists is the return to old covenant judaism during the kingdom period they believe is coming, and the blind support for the secular state of Israel.
Wrong again. Being wrong is typical for you in these important matters of prophecy as everyone can see.
Luk 13:35
Behold, your house (WHAT IS THIS HOUSE?) is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye (WHO IS YE?) shall not see me, until the time come when ye (WHO IS YE?) shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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Luke 13:35 (KJV)
“Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
Let’s walk through this carefully in context and prophecy.
1. Immediate Context: Who Is Jesus Addressing?
In Luke 13:31–34, Jesus is speaking about Jerusalem:
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets…”
So the primary audience is:
Jerusalem as representative of the nation
Specifically its leadership (Pharisees, rulers, those rejecting Him)
But corporately, the covenant nation
2. “Your House Is Left Unto You Desolate” — House of Whom?
The “house” most naturally refers to:
The TempleThe house of God (cf. Luke 19:46)
Compare Matthew 23:38, where Jesus says the same words
In that passage, the context is explicitly judgment on the Temple system
This aligns with:
Daniel 9:26 (destruction of city and sanctuary)
Fulfilled historically in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple by the Romans.
So:
“Your house” = the Temple, formerly God’s house
Now “left unto you” — no longer called “My house” but “your house.”
That shift is significant.
3. “Ye Shall Not See Me…” — Who Is “Ye”?
The “ye” (plural) refers to:
The covenant nation represented by Jerusalem
The generation rejecting Him
But prophetically extends beyond just that immediate generation
It cannot merely mean:
Individual Pharisees
Random individuals
Because the statement includes a future national recognition:
“Until the time come when ye shall say…”
That implies:
A future corporate confession.
4. “Blessed Is He That Cometh…” — Prophetic Citation
Jesus quotes Psalm 118:26, a Messianic Psalm:
“Blessed be he that cometh in the name of the LORD”
This Psalm was already used during His triumphal entry (Luke 19:38), but that reception was:
Partial
Not national
Not permanent
Here, Jesus speaks of a future time when the nation will say it in truth.
5. Prophetic Framework
This passage fits naturally within a prophetic arc:
A. Rejection → Desolation
Messiah rejected
Temple destroyed
National judgment
B. Long Interval
Israel does not “see” Him (no national recognition of Messiah)
Dispersion among the nations
C. Future National Recognition
This connects strongly with:
Zechariah 12:10 — “They shall look upon me whom they have pierced”
Zechariah 14 — LORD returns to Jerusalem
Romans 11:26 — “All Israel shall be saved”
In that framework:
“Ye shall not see me until…” implies
A future visible return Followed by national repentance6. Is This Israel the Nation — Sons of Jacob?
The most natural reading:
Yes — this concerns national Israel, the physical descendants of Jacob in covenant relationship.
Why?
The address is to Jerusalem
The Temple is central
The rejection is covenantal and national
The future confession is corporate
This does not exclude individual Jews in the Church age.
But the passage itself is national in scope.
7. Theological Interpretive Options
There are two major readings:
Futurist / National Restoration ViewDesolation fulfilled in 70 AD
Israel remains partially hardened
At the Second Coming, national repentance occurs
They will say Psalm 118:26 in genuine faith
8. Key Prophetic Logic
The structure is conditional:
You will not see Me
UNTIL
You say…
This implies:
The Second Coming is linked to Israel’s repentance
The Messiah’s visible return and Israel’s confession are connected
That parallels:
Hosea 5:15 — “I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence…”
Very similar pattern:
Withdrawal → National distress → Repentance → Return.
9. Summary
“House” = The Temple in Jerusalem
“Ye” = Jerusalem/national Israel in covenant identity
Desolation = Temple destruction and covenant judgment
“Until” = Future national turning
“Blessed is He…” = Messianic recognition at His return
Yes — the passage most naturally concerns Israel as a nation, the sons of Jacob in covenant history.
It describes:
Judicial abandonment
A long period of non-recognition
A future corporate repentance tied to Messiah’s visible return
God gave Israel the land to live in, not own. They were guests in the land with the owner, God, and were allowed to stay according to the covenant made in Moab (rental agreement). They broke the rental agreement and were evicted.
Zionists wrongly believe that God gave them a deed to the land
Zionists wrongly believe that God gave them a deed to the land
Oh the "shut down" is happening alright. But has nothing whatsoever to do with slander and slurs.
In fact it is YOU that proffers in these pejoratives, not me.
I truth the only thing "shutting down" is your ability to RESPOND to my posts with Biblically supported, comprehensive, fully featured and detailed counter arguments.
You have no answer.......
Ok, but Romans 11 says that those branches can and will be grafted in again. I posted that above.
I don't have blind support for Israel but I do believe they have a right to a homeland and to defend it and name their own capital. In fact according to Romans 11, most of the Jews are still lost. I believe there will be future repentance. Mainly I believe God isn't done with the Jews, that the Church doesn't replace the Jews. Perhaps later I will post some of Martin Luther's sermon on the Jews and see if you agree or disagree with his POV. I'm betting you'll disagree.
You have no answer to these passages or any of my other posts. Go ahead and flail around trying I would like to watch.
On the other hand, I understand PRECISELY how, why, when and who these passages pertain to, their fulfillment, their purpose.
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The promise God made was unconditional, some covenants were, some weren't. Abrahamic was unconditional.
If the very word of God cannot penetrate their soul and they cling to false doctrine and be deceived probably nothing we can say.
There are no ethnic distinctions in God' new covenant people and here we have people trying to put back the wall that Christ tore down. Truly anti-gospel.
Galatians 3:16
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Ephesians 2:11-18
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
What will happen next ban the Bible...because from what I am reading the light is breaking through for some at least.
Come on.....lets hear it. Don't be shy.....
Mat 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Luk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The covenant God made with Israel in Moab was conditional and stated that if Israel didn't obey the law they would be cursed and plucked off of the land.
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:26
And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deuteronomy 28:63
Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:26
And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it. Deuteronomy 28:63
OSINTdefender
@sentdefender
With the arrival of the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group and its carrier air wing in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, there are now more than 250 attack aircraft (A-10, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-35) in the Middle East with more than 100 additional attack aircraft spread out across Europe. This is in addition to more than 125 U.S. Air Force KC-135's and KC-46's spread across the region.
@sentdefender
With the arrival of the USS Gerald R. Ford carrier strike group and its carrier air wing in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, there are now more than 250 attack aircraft (A-10, F-15, F-16, F-18, F-35) in the Middle East with more than 100 additional attack aircraft spread out across Europe. This is in addition to more than 125 U.S. Air Force KC-135's and KC-46's spread across the region.
Good post.
How do you think this point fits ?
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Romans 9:6-8 KJV
What point is Paul making here ? Sort of where my point began in the thread .
“And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
Galatians 3:8-9, 14, 16, 26-29 KJV
My point is that doesn’t matter what our flesh and blood says we are a gentile ? An Israelite ? It’s irrelevant that’s not how God identifies Israel
“they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children…That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
Being born of isralite flesh doesn’t make a person any different from being born of gentile flesh . Gods people are those who accept Christ whether they were born of gentile of isralite flesh is irrelevant .
Right brother what happens to Jews who reject Jesus as Lord ? And refuse to convert to Christianity ? And what happens to a gentile who does the same ? And also what happens if either accepts the Gospel ?I see both things as being true.
One. Upon being born again one's old identity as Jew or Gentile no longer applies/exists. We are birthed as a new creation in Christ Jesus as you stated.
It was just yesterday that I was reading Paul's words pertaining to this topic.
One in Christ
"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
A Temple in the Lord
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." Eph. 2:11-22
Two. Scripture reveals God's plan for those whom He personally blinded are dealt with differently. Why? At this point, I truly have no idea. But one thing I do know. God knows exactly what He's doing.
are they going to gather in the land of ot israel promised to anrams descendants of flesh and blood who also inherited the law of that land ?
Or is the New Testament about a new inheritance ?
“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
Isaiah 65:17 KJV
Old gone new to come
“but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ( this earths purpose )
…But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. ( old is gone )
Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”( his promise is about the new heavens and new earth he promised to make )
2 Peter 3:7, 10, 13 KJV
“And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.”
Revelation 21:1 KJV
Old gone and new has come
“And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:5-8 KJV
I think your posts were both good just think we aren’t looking at the same points at the same time . Israel’s restoration will be when Jesus returns but it’s not according to the old covenant or this earth or the flesh and blood of Jacob ….. like the old was it’s rether according to each persons individual response to hearing the gospel belief or rejection
Zionistas (Jewish and Christian), Muslim haters, people who love war. Most Christians probably don't support it. Catholics are the largest US denomination and are not zionistas
Zionists call people "antisemitic" when they are anti- zionist.
They weaken the word because it is useful for their politics.
The result is that people become indifferent to being called by that name.
That is also a problem for Jews, because real antisemitism actually exists.
There are people who identify themselves as Nazis and call for the killing of Jews.
I have not met any of them on this forum.
Firing off those slurs again are we? A very bad habit. Sad.
Here is more food for thought:
Isa 14:1 - For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
Isa 14:2 - And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
Isa 14:3 - And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,