If I ask you a question...
I would really like to know the answer.
I did give you some follow up questions.
Later.
Faith or Law?
- Thread starter Gideon300
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I would really like to know the answer.
I did give you some follow up questions.
Later.
I was actually interested in what @Dino246 had to say, I actually do learn from his posts, I have no interest at all in following you around believe me.
And why do you learn from HIS posts but not from mine?
I'M SO JEALOUS.
Perhaps it's because he agrees with your incorrect theology that might be sending some to the hot place?
Matthew 5:19-20
19“Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Are you cute at least?
Actually, what you said, “We faithe into Him,” is not good English. What are you trying to say? It really doesn’t make any sense. (?)
Also, “faithing” is not a word.
Blessings!
The more our faith is being perfected, which means the daily offering of of our lives to Him should be getting better and better, the more we will make choices that can be seen by us and others as being obedient. But it's not by trying to be obedient, it's by our faith being perfected, our surrendered life being perfected by Him.
In rom. 7:14 -21, probably the most avoided scripture in Gods word. Paul is telling us precisely what sanctification is like in Christ. He says that it's not Him doing the sinning, it's sin dwelling in him doing it. He's describing sanctification, the separation from our sinful nature's. It's the opposite with justification, it's not us being obedient, it's the Spirit of Christ in us doing it.
Why this is so hard to understand is this is getting into the deeper paradoxical truths of God and His word. Two things completely opposite, happening simultaneously. If we don't have the spirit of Christ inside us, and the mind of Christ to discern, we are in danger of getting into arguments with one side of the paradox throwing darts at the other side of the paradox.
Faithe, faithing, and faither are the words the English language should have had for the translators to translate pisteuo into the English.
Because the English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to our noun Faith like the Greek does to pistis, they chose the words believe, believer, and believing, which are mistranslations of the Greek word pisteuo.
Because of this mistranslation, everything we look up in regards to pisteuo in English will be stamped back out onto the Greek. The words believe, believer, and believing are not words in the Greek language. But if i look up what the Greek word for believe is in the Greek, it will come back pisteuo. Mistranslated in, Mistranslated back out and stamped onto the Greek.
I explain this in depth in the rediscovering pisteuo OP 4 or 5 pages back.
So trying to give you the best answer possible I submit this.
Faith actually has three parts.
1) an act, a personal surrender to Him
2) based upon a belief, that He will accept the surrendered life.
3) sustained by confidence, that all the 100s of daily decisions we make will prove to God in a way we really do consider our lives to be His now.
In that third part of faith, the decisions we are making to support the surrendered life, could be seen as acts of obedience. But as I hopefully pointed out, there is a difference between fulfilling His commandments, and fulfilling the requirements of faith and faithing.
But our works are not as filthy rags.
Our works are not as filthy rags because Jesus commands us to obey HIm and what He taught...
so how could works not be pleasing to God? Jesus said that those who do the will of the Father will see heaven.
Sinning is not doing the will of the Father.
Doing good deeds is doing the will of the Father.
Matthew 7:21
21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
Hebrews 10:24
24And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
Isaiah 64 is addressing people that DO NOT BELIEVE in God.
The same Isaiah 64 states that God likes our good deeds of righteousness:
Isaiah 64
1Oh, that You would rend the heavens and come down,
That the mountains might quake at Your presence—
2As fire kindles the brushwood, as fire causes water to boil—
To make Your name known to Your adversaries,
That the nations may tremble at Your presence!
3When You did awesome things which we did not expect,
You came down, the mountains quaked at Your presence.
4For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of the one who waits for Him.
5You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
We continued in them a long time;
And shall we be saved?
6For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
Verse 4 is speaking about unbelievers.
Verse 5 is speaking of those that believe God and are doing righteousness.
Don't let anyone tell you that God does not love our good works.
HE planned for them:
Ephesians 2:10
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
The Pharisee in your example is doing what he does to impress other men.
When you help someone, do you do it to get credit for yourself,
or to help the other person?
It's not because your motive was wrong...
it's because TV evangelists need a lot of money for their ministry and they LIE to you.
God is not Santa Clause.
Send your money to the poor,
not to rich TV evangelists.
I hope you're not going to a Word of Faith church.
Right.
Amen to that.
Sounds good to me.
Just keep walking toward God and not toward the liar, satan.
If you are fulfilling Jesus' commandments....
LOVE GOD
LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF...
you are fulfilling the requirements of your faith.
You are BELIEVING IN jesus.
What @Watchman22 is saying is that the word eise in Greek means INTO at times.
Frankly, I don't understand the difference between IN JESUS and INTO JESUS...but there might be a nuance there that is not understood.
Foreign languages cannot be fully translated.
Nope thats not true NT faith and faithing.
Thats the faith built upon the back of the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing.
The opposite of literal is metaphorical/figurative; the opposite of spiritual is physical,
and all of these may express either truth or falsehood.
Yes, we should NEVER use never.
I agree that "water" was a metaphor for ultimate truth and "love" signified reflecting fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Those words are not “mistranslated”. They are translated into the only available English words.
The fact that the English words have senses of meaning that don’t align with the Greek “pisteuo” is not anyone’s fault.
Deal with it.
I agree.The opposite of literal is metaphorical/figurative; the opposite of spiritual is physical,
and all of these may express either truth or falsehood.
Yes, we should NEVER use never.
I agree that "water" was a metaphor for ultimate truth and "love" signified reflecting fruit of the Holy Spirit.
The other member stated that everything in the NT is spiritual.
Water was a metaphor (wonder what I said?) for never going thirsty if we believe in Jesus.
Thirsty...spiritual thirst. I believe I mentioned the woman at the well.
Can't remember about love,,,but of course you're right.
Love is a fruit of having the Holy Spirit dwell in us...
along with other fruit...Galatians.
Look at your reaction to the proclamation of the gospel.
The N.T tells us 500 times that faith in Jesus means salvation, reconciliation, perfection.
This bends you over backwards for some reason?
That proclamation of the death and resurrection of Jesus is the gospel.
Only through Jesus are we saved, reconciled, at peace with God, justified, sanctified, etc.
Now read this paragraph in Colossians carefully.
Colossians 1:21-23
And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has
now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy
and blameless and beyond reproach, if indeed you continue in the faith firmly
established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard,
which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven.
I can be baptized in water or in the Holy Spirit but that is not the reason that I am saved.
He has now reconciled you
You cannot reconcile yourself.
The reason that you cannot accept that salvation is a free gift given to those that believe.
Is because you have been taught a primary doctrine of legal obedience.
So your gospel transforms into Jesus plus the law = salvation.
That's why your twisting and squirming.
Here is what you have been taught.
This is what you believe; Jesus and my works grants salvation.
If you BELIEVE in Jesus you will DO what He taught.
What you stated is clearly heresy.
The only cause of anyone's salvation was that perfect sacrifice that Jesus performed for us.
That is the four line gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
Your imperfect and often sinful Christian life has nothing to do with that gift of salvation.
The real question for any Christian is how far from a perfect Christian lifestyle, that they live
every day. How far? A country mile or a greater difference?
We are saved by grace first and foremost and only through that faith.
That's the end of this matter; you were told 500 times.