The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[vassal]

I would answer that paragraph differently.

On the cross, He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30 in Gospel of John). What was finished? The sacrifice. The Lamb had been offered. Just as in the sanctuary, the victim was slain once. There is no repeated sacrifice. In that sense, the atoning offering was complete. But does Scripture show that everything in the plan of salvation was completed at that moment? YES.

Jesus also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). If the whole plan was finished for every person at the cross, why speak of enduring to the end?

He said, “The word that I spake, the same shall judge him in the last day” (John 12:48). That judgment was still future. Even after the cross, there is a last day.

Look at His prayer in John 17. Before the cross He said, “I glorified thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which thou hast given me to do” (John 17:4). Yet He had not even died yet. So “finished” does not mean every part of God’s plan through all time was fully carried out. It means the specific task at that moment was completed.

On the cross, the sacrifice was finished. The offering was complete. But salvation also includes resurrection, ascension, intercession, the preaching of the gospel to all nations, the judgment, and the final kingdom. Jesus spoke of sitting on His throne in glory and judging the nations (Matthew 25:31–32). That clearly was not finished at Calvary.

The sacrifice was finished. The Lamb was offered once for all. Nothing can be added to His blood.

But the application of that sacrifice to each person, the call to repent, to believe, to endure, the future judgment, and the bringing in of the kingdom were not finished at that moment.

The cross is the foundation. It is complete. But the full plan of salvation, as Jesus Himself described it, unfolds from the cross until the last day.

Sorry to burst your bubble

 

[JimiSurvivor]

You speak as if God failed the first time and had to correct Himself later. That is not what Jesus taught.

When Israel failed to enter the Land and possess their inheritance, was that God's failure? No, He desire was for them to in and take what was theirs. However, the scripture says: …18 And to whom did He swear that they would never enter His rest? Was it not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that it was because of their unbelief that they were unable to enter

Jesus said plainly, “Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished”

The moral commands do continue because those have always been God's will for humanity. In fact, such truths were already present in man and were intuitively understood from the day God first made us (Romans 2:14). Thus, even before anyone had actually been murdered, God was able to reason with Cain about it. That being said, many of the PRACTICES God gave to encourage Israel to approach and worship Him did not continue. For instance, the Laws concerning the design of the Temple and the priesthood, and the system by which the Jews approached and worshiped God had became a hollow charade because the people's heart was not in it (Isaiah 1:13-15) This is why, I believe, God eventually put an end to the Temple, the sacrifices and the priesthood

(Matthew 5:17–18 ASV). Heaven and earth are still here. So the Law is not destroyed.
Fulfill does not mean abolish. It means to bring to fullness, to complete its purpose. A seed fulfills its purpose when it grows into a tree, but the life inside it is the same. Jesus did not say the commandments were obsolete. He warned that whoever breaks the least commandment and teaches men so “shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:19).

God wants of us what He has always wanted - that we should be like Him (made in His image) and that, because of this, we might fellowship with Him. You make some good observations here such as when you say Fulfill does not mean abolish. It means to bring to fullness, to complete its purpose. This is why following the letter of the Law is inadequate and insufficient. Under the terms of the New Covenant, MESSIAH, who is the living image and exact representation of the Father, is the image, and the template He wants to shape us into.

You quote Hebrews. But even there, God says what the New Covenant is. It is not the removal of His law. It is this: “I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them” (Hebrews 8:10 ASV, quoting Jeremiah 31:33). The law is not erased. It is written deeper.

I agree with you on this. Under the New Covenant, the essence of the Law is meant to be inscribed on our inner being.
…3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man, as an offering for sin. He thus condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the righteous standard of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. (Romans 8:3-4)

The destruction of the Temple in AD 70 was judgment, just as Jesus foretold (Luke 19:43–44; 21:6). It proved His authority. But it did not mean God changed His moral standard.

I do not believe God gave up His moral standards. The New Covenant gave us a way to fulfill the moral commands through the indwelling Holy Spirit

Jesus said, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17). He did not say they would soon disappear. The priesthood changed because Messiah is our High Priest forever “after the order of Melchizedek” (Psalm 110:4). That was written long before the Temple fell. This was always God’s plan, not an emergency adjustment.

Hebrews 8:13 tells us: By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one OBSOLETE and what is obsolete and outdated will
SOON DISAPPEAR.
Our differences here are with the author of the Book of Hebrews who said making a NEW Covenant with us automatically makes the prior covenant OBSOLETE. This was not about God's moral imperatives but about how we can approach and relate to God. When he says the Old would "soon disappear" I think he was referring to a specific event which was the destruction of the Temple. With no Temple there would be no more sacrifices. Without that Mosaic Judaism ceased, being replaced by the counterfeit model of Rabbinic Judaeism

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Keeping the Sabbath is not what we do! We are no longer to keep it. The first day of the week (Sunday) is the Lord’s Day.

Historically, you are absolutely correct. Neither Jesus nor His apostles commanded New Covenant believers to keep Shabbat exactly as the Jews had. The Jewish Shabbat commemorated God's completion of the first creation and celebrated Israel's deliverance from slavery. However, since Christ rose from the dead on Sunday, which Christians did not call by the pagan name "Day of the Sun" but rather The Lord's Day in honor of Christ's resurrection and ascension to Heaven thereby making possible the RE-CREATION and RESTORATION of the cosmos.

Alluding to Christ after His resurrection and ascension, the word tells us that "whom heaven must receive UNTIL the period of restoration of all things, about which God spoke by the mouths of His holy prophets from ancient times"
(Acts 3:21)

 

[Inquisitor]

Jesus also said, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). If the whole plan was finished for every person at the cross, why speak of enduring to the end?

The atonement that Jesus performed is the sole reason for our salvation, and always will be.

Your perseverance is simply keeping that faith from the beginning (the alpha) to the end (the omega).

Through, thick and thin, we hold to that trust in Jesus.

It's not your effort plus Jesus equals salvation as that is heresy.

 

[vassal]

The atonement that Jesus performed is the sole reason for our salvation, and always will be.

Your perseverance is simply keeping that faith from the beginning (the alpha) to the end (the omega).

Through, thick and thin, we hold to that trust in Jesus.

It's not your effort plus Jesus equals salvation as that is heresy.

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is the only sacrifice for sin. Without His blood, no one can be saved. That is true. He said on the cross, “It is finished” (John 19:30). The offering was complete. The Lamb was slain once.

But the question is not whether His sacrifice is enough. The question is how a person remains in that salvation.

Jesus did not say, “Believe once and it is settled no matter what happens.” He said, “He that endureth to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Endure means remain, continue, stay faithful.

He also said, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31). Not start. Continue.

Again He said, “Abide in me… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch… and burned” (John 15:4–6). A branch must remain connected. The life comes from Him, yes. But the branch must stay in Him.

And He warned, “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away” (John 15:2). Fruit is not earning salvation. Fruit is the proof that you are alive in Him.

No one is saying “my effort plus Jesus.” That would be pride. But Jesus Himself says obedience matters. “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46). He compares the obedient man to one who builds on rock, and the disobedient to one who builds on sand (Luke 6:47–49).


Salvation begins with His finished sacrifice.
Salvation continues as we remain in Him.
Salvation is revealed at the end for those who endure.

His work on the cross is perfect.
But He never said perseverance is automatic.
He said endure.

 

[Inquisitor]

He said endure.

We endure in our faith in Jesus our savior.

Throw your crown at the feet of Jesus because the glory belong to Him alone.

Never boast in anything you have ever done.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

We endure in our faith in Jesus our savior.

Throw your crown at the feet of Jesus because the glory belong to Him alone.

Never boast in anything you have ever done.

How is enduring in Christ boasting??

Jesus is literally the one strengthening and holding up the believer who endures in Him.

It's not a position of pride like you say. It's humble and obedient to Jesus.


🕊

 

[TMS]

You claim there are two distinct "laws" but you haven't provided any evidence that Jesus distinguishes them. Actually, the whole record of His statements establishes that when He spoke of "the law" He included both the ten commandments and the other 600-odd ordinances.

In other words, your point is unsupported by Scripture.

The very next post, I give a biblical reason why there are 2 laws. With bible verses. Read it in post 4023.

 

[TMS]

I would answer that paragraph differently.

On the cross, He said, “It is finished” (John 19:30 in Gospel of John). What was finished? The sacrifice. The Lamb had been offered. Just as in the sanctuary, the victim was slain once. There is no repeated sacrifice. In that sense, the atoning offering was complete. But does Scripture show that everything in the plan of salvation was completed at that moment? YES.

The blood was shed..... type was the lamb in the outer court. That was done and finished..

But what about all the other aspects of the type.? ... the preast took the blood and sprinkled it in the sanctuary.
Then the day of atonement came and the sins needed to be cleansed from the sanctuary.

it is clear that Jesus is our high priest in heaven. Read Heb 9
The Judgement is still happening today.
The blood of Jesus is still being offered to make us clean.

How do you say the whole plan of salvation from sin was completed at the cross?

We have a priest in heaven attending to the work of mediation. Atonement is not complete until we are Judged as saved.

Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Make reconciliation..... as the high priest
Not as the lamb..

The blood of Christ is essential but that is not the end of His work of salvation

Heb 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Heb 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Intercession is part of our salvation.

 

[Dino246]

Paul clearly said
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

These laws were nailed to the cross and blotted out.
But Paul also clearly states....
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It is clearly 2 different laws

One is blotted out the other is established in our hearts.

No, it is not "clearly" two different laws. It is one law.

Paul's statement in Romans 3:31 does not say that the law continues to apply to Christians, despite what all the legalists claim. Instead, what he says is that believers are justified and made righteous by faith apart from law.

v. 21- But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.

Note that it does not say "to those who obey the law".

v. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law (that's where your entire position breaks down, by the way).

Finally, in v. 31 he says, "Do we, then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all. Rather, we uphold the law.

While I will admit it is complex language, it is not incomprehensible. Paul is saying that the Law is from God, and that it has a purpose. He is not, however, saying that we are justified or made righteous by obeying the law.

Similarly, in chapter 7, Paul is defending the law's purpose: to show what sin is and to condemn it.

There aren't two laws; there is one.