Loss of salvation???
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Just like you cannot unbirth yourself from your earthly parents, neither can you unbirth yourself from God.
Much love!
Who else said its difficult and why is it so difficult to understand? I don't believe it's hard to understand. I believe that it's hard for certain folks to accept. Particularly folks who promote works righteousness.
Straw man argument. I never said that.
Another straw man argument. I simply point out the distinction between the obedient act of choosing to believe in the Son unto salvation and multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing in the Son and having already obtained salvation.
Those who have not obeyed are those who have not believed.
That is obedience which "follows" salvation. (Ephesians 2:8-10) We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works.
The straw man arguments continue. I have no problem with the word works. I simply put works in their proper place. Subsequent to regeneration and salvation.
Amen! (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18; 6:40,47; 11:25,26 etc..).
Amen! Those who do not obey the Son by refusing to believe in the Son will see the wrath of God.
Believers have obeyed. Unbelievers have not obeyed.
Because they have not obeyed by choosing to believe. John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Yep.
That’s just what unregenerate human intellect thinks.
Walking in the Spirit is counterintuitive to human intellect, that thinks it must do, or not do something to help Jesus save them, and keep them saved.
True, Born Again Children of God, are convicted by the Holy Spirit when they sin.
If you are doing the things you listed, and feel no conviction about it, that is a VERY strong indication you aren’t saved.
This is what Paul states comes from this perverted logic >>>> "let us do evil that good may come."
He also states that those at the time who were making these slanderous comments against him, have a condemnation that is just because it comes from a heart of unbelief.
Read it all and see.
Romans 3: 5-8
5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,)
Let us do evil, that good may come?
...... whose condemnation is just.
A simple question based in context of the verses you reference that are tied back to at minimum Rom3 by the language of Rom4:1:
- What exactly does Paul mean by "works" and "work" here?
- Is Paul overriding what Jesus taught in John6 where Jesus commanded men to work for what He gives that remains into eternal life?
- Is Paul overriding that Jesus says believing in the one God sent is the work God requires of men?
- Do we explain these seeming contradictions away through some system of soteriology, or do we work to fully understand Paul's teachings?
- Is there anything here that specifically say God requires that men do nothing in coming to Christ? Or are we reading into what Paul is saying and making him conflict with Jesus Christ.
I understood your posts. Just sayin' . . .
Works don't contribute to our justification. What an insult to Jesus to think otherwise! As if some action we do adds to His death? Not a chance!
Works, obedience, the desire to be pleasing to God, the efforts to do His will, these show our salvation as you well know, but do not add to it.
It's like trying to "complete" a meal at Spago's by adding a mud pie. Even that is too gentle an analogy.
Much love!
Absolutely.
... and no Good News!
And if I don't feel conviced I am!!!
Just have to love how easy it is to be heaven bound.
Wonder why all of JESUS disciples were murdered???
When it's us who can do the murdering???
Well, that's a step forward from some of the traditional faith-alone soteriology. An ACT of obedience being required for salvation. Many would call that a 'work'. It'll be a pleasant surprise if the wrath of some "Christians" does not rain down on you for saying this.
The reason it's not a work is the Texts says it's not and most specifically, Jesus Christ says it's not.
Once it's established that belief and obedience are parallel and appositional to one another, it's not difficult to see how it's a continual requirement throughout the Christian life. Please not that I said "continual" vs. continuous.
LOL, asking someone if there are any conditions to being reborn and staying reborn.
Was told just "Believe using the faith HE has given us"
So that was my quesion to him.
LOL, it was a question, I was asking someone if there are any conditions to being reborn and staying reborn.
Was told just "Believe using the faith HE has given us"
So that was my quesion to him.
Actually it's back in John6:27-29 and everywhere else Jesus speaks of what unbelieving men must do.
Then comes the discussion about security.
But you said grace means we can just live in sin, but why would you want to? Who is it who is regenerated who rejoices in sin?
I hear this bandied about as an objection to grace through faith forever rebirth, that it means we can freely sin all we want. So I ask, how much do you want?
To me this is a groundless objection, because the one in whom is God's Spirit, that person isn't going to just say, So happy that now I can sin with impunity! Quite the opposite, that sin grieves us, and more so as we mature.
What is it exactly that is missing from Jesus Christ's death and resurrection that you feel you add by your works? And I ask this giving consideration to the fact that it's God's Spirit working in us that enables us to do our good works.
Do you truly believe Jesus' death was lacking in some way?
We are reconciled to God in Christ, not in ourselves.
Much love!
I see too many post which speak of obeying and believing as works which we must do to become and remain saved.
Get real, take a deep breath and ask yourself just where do these things come from? Does fallen man lift himself from the depth of depravity and turn to God in his own strength? I don't think so! Scripture speaks of man being incapable, depraved, and without hope.
But scripture also explains what must be done and how this takes place. When His disciples ask what must we do, He tells them:
Luke 18:27 - But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
Phil 2:13 - For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Obeying and believing spring forth from a renewed heart. Not works that overflow from the heart of a depraved man, but a gift of great value that is given to God's people.
There is no boasting in a gift received!
Get real, take a deep breath and ask yourself just where do these things come from? Does fallen man lift himself from the depth of depravity and turn to God in his own strength? I don't think so! Scripture speaks of man being incapable, depraved, and without hope.
But scripture also explains what must be done and how this takes place. When His disciples ask what must we do, He tells them:
Luke 18:27 - But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.”
Phil 2:13 - For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Obeying and believing spring forth from a renewed heart. Not works that overflow from the heart of a depraved man, but a gift of great value that is given to God's people.
There is no boasting in a gift received!
Its a PRIDE issue.
SELF promotion
SELF righteousness
SELF preservation
If only you knew how many fallacies are put forth here that actually weaken your argument...