The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

[GWH]

The bottom-line regarding salvation, is that Christ Himself (not us), achieved everything needed to save those whom He had chosen to salvation, with nothing remaining for those to be saved to do to become saved - salvation is given as a completely free gift by God through Jesus Christ the Savior, and that is why He has the title of Savior, period. Not to be rude, but it appears you either don't understand or believe in the doctrine of salvation by God's grace, but only by man's works. We understand the basis of salvation completely differently, so I don't see any value in continuing further at this point. I would just end by suggesting that you ponder deeply in relation to salvation what the title and role of Savior actually means.

[Tit 3:4-6 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Nothing to do except accept.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The bottom-line regarding salvation, is that Christ Himself (not us), achieved everything needed to save those whom He had chosen to salvation, with nothing remaining for those to be saved to do to become saved - salvation is given as a completely free gift by God through Jesus Christ the Savior, and that is why He has the title of Savior, period. Not to be rude, but it appears you either don't understand or believe in the doctrine of salvation by God's grace, but only by man's works. We understand the basis of salvation completely differently, so I don't see any value in continuing further at this point. I would just end by suggesting that you ponder deeply in relation to salvation what the title and role of Savior actually means.

[Tit 3:4-6 KJV]
4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

Your response has nothing to do with what we were speaking of, that the ordinances are different than the commandments.

I am not speaking about how one is saved, but no one is saved in their sins Heb10:26-30, sin is breaking the law of God 1John3:4, His version James 2:11. If we are truly in Christ He is going to transform us from the inside out, but if we do not allow the God of the Bible to define what sin is and what are His commandments, it doesn’t remove God’s laws, it just covers our sins Pro28:13 and not a good spot to be in come judgement day Mat5:19-30 Rev11:18-19 James 2:11-12

We are probably too far apart to reason, but I wish you well.

 

[TMS]

The bottom-line regarding salvation, is that Christ Himself (not us), achieved everything needed to save those whom He had chosen to salvation, with nothing remaining for those to be saved to do to become saved - salvation is given as a completely free gift by God through Jesus Christ the Savior, and that is why He has the title of Savior, period.

Yes Jesus did achieve everything.
Jesus is our saviour.

But your concept of salvation is different.
Does God give us freedom to choose?

Do we choose to accept salvation or are we forced to be saved?
Do we choose to be saved from sin. Or are we forced to overcome sin. Are we force to be free from sin?

Sin is a choice, and we need salvation from sin but the choice is for us to make.

Will God allow sin to dwell in heaven

Will God let sin continue in the hearts of sinful mankind?

No ... there is a point when sin will be no more. Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We have a different view of salvation...
We both believe that Christ is the means of our salvation and it is a free gift.

but i do not believe that sin is forced out of us... we need to allow the holy Spirit to renew a new heart in us and transform us into his image. Daily choosing to allow God to work in us we can be saved from sin.

if being saved from sin is just a legal declaration of imputed righteousness then what is stopping us from sinning tomorrow?
Are we really saved from sin if our hearts are still sinful.
i believe being saved from sin is both imputed righteousness and imparted righteousness. Imparted righteousness is the righteous lifestyle and actions that Jesus lived imparted. It id the Holy Spirit enabling us to live a holy life and do good works. It is an inward, and progressive change of character, often described as partaking in the divine nature.

Both are by Faith and all glory goes to God.

Rom 6:12-13
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

 

[rogerg]

Yes Jesus did achieve everything.
Jesus is our saviour.

Yes. And that should answer the remainder of your post for you.

 

[vassal]

Wrong! Should anyone trust that in the keeping of law they can either establish or increase(their) righteousness, then they remain under law and under God's wrath. God freely and solely imputes the righteousness of Christ - the only true righteousness - as a gift to those whom He places in Christ, with that being the ONLY way for righteousness to be obtained.

[Rom 10:4 KJV] 4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

[1Co 1:30 KJV] 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

[Gal 2:21 KJV] 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

[Rom 3:19-20 KJV]
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

you just don't understand what Paul says and twist his meanings totally, please do not ask me to explain Paul to you. All you have to do is reconcile Paul's writings with what Christ said and did, if Paul's words seem to say something else its because you do not understand their meaning. Most of the time Paul speaks of the Law of Moses that cannot be followed anymore and not the commandments. remember 2 Peter 3, Peter said clearly Paul is difficult to understand, please believe this and revise your position until you understand that Paul's gospel does matched Christs. there cannot be 2 gospels but only one, One gospel, one truth.

All i can say to you is this, going against God and Jesus that say clearly to keep the commandments is disobedience, also called lawlessness. It is a choice that God gives everyone, He will force No one. He lets us choose our own path. Please make the right choice.

remember this as it will never change:

Ten Commandments = the covenant

Old covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on 2 tables of stone) {No Holy spirit available to help}
New Covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts and minds) {The Holy Spirit is now available}

God/Jesus sending us His Holy Spirit, makes all things possible just listen to Him. Ask God for guidance and He will answer.

 

[vassal]

The Jewish people under the Old Covenant certainly were obliged to keep the to keep Shabbat as well as all the other laws. It is interesting, though, that while the Apostles who were given the responsibility of teaching their disciples gave them many moral injunctions as well as passing on to them the teachings of Jesus Himself, never urged them to keep Shabbat.

In fact, in Colossians 2:16-17, the Apostle Paul wrote: “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH DAY. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.”
Romans 14:5 adds this:
“One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.”
These Scriptures make it clear that, for the Christian, Sabbath-keeping is no longer a command from God. Rather, it is a a spiritual freedom left up to the conscience of the individual. Moreover, Sabbath-keeping is an issue on which God’s Word instructs us not to judge each other yet those who still keep Shabbat seem to be conviced every single member of the Body MUST be persuaded to do the same thing.

If keeping Shabbat were on par with every MORAL LAW then NOT KEEPING IT could very well cause us to lose our eternal inheritance in the coming Kingdom of God:
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
(1 Corinthians 6:9-11)
Notice that not keeping Shabbat is not on this list.

i give you the same answer that I gave Rogerg;

you just don't understand what Paul says and twist his meanings totally, please do not ask me to explain Paul to you. All you have to do is reconcile Paul's writings with what Christ said and did, if Paul's words seem to say something else its because you do not understand their meaning. Most of the time Paul speaks of the Law of Moses that cannot be followed anymore and not the commandments. remember 2 Peter 3, Peter said clearly Paul is difficult to understand, please believe this and revise your position until you understand that Paul's gospel does matched Christs. there cannot be 2 gospels but only one, One gospel, one truth.

All i can say to you is this, going against God and Jesus that say clearly to keep the commandments is disobedience, also called lawlessness. It is a choice that God gives everyone, He will force No one. He lets us choose our own path. Please make the right choice.

remember this as it will never change:

Ten Commandments = the covenant

Old covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on 2 tables of stone) {No Holy spirit available to help}
New Covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts and minds) {The Holy Spirit is now available}

God/Jesus sending us His Holy Spirit, makes all things possible just listen to Him. Ask God for guidance and He will answer.

 

[rogerg]

you just don't understand what Paul says and twist his meanings totally, please do not ask me to explain Paul to you. All you have to do is reconcile Paul's writings with what Christ said and did, if Paul's words seem to say something else its because you do not understand their meaning. Most of the time Paul speaks of the Law of Moses that cannot be followed anymore and not the commandments. remember 2 Peter 3, Peter said clearly Paul is difficult to understand, please believe this and revise your position until you understand that Paul's gospel does matched Christs. there cannot be 2 gospels but only one, One gospel, one truth.

All i can say to you is this, going against God and Jesus that say clearly to keep the commandments is disobedience, also called lawlessness. It is a choice that God gives everyone, He will force No one. He lets us choose our own path. Please make the right choice.

remember this as it will never change:

Ten Commandments = the covenant

Old covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on 2 tables of stone) {No Holy spirit available to help}
New Covenant (the letters of the Ten Commandments are written on our hearts and minds) {The Holy Spirit is now available}

God/Jesus sending us His Holy Spirit, makes all things possible just listen to Him. Ask God for guidance and He will answer.

You're the one who needs to read it because you do not understand that those saved have been justified completely by Christ
not by the works of law. You would place people back under the works of law, not God's grace through Christ.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

You're the one who needs to read it because you do not understand that those saved have been justified completely by Christ
not by the works of law. You would place people back under the works of law, not God's grace through Christ.

So in your view, is the works of the Holy Spirit not leading us to holiness and righteousness or is it leading one to be sinners and in rebellion to the very laws He wrote in our minds , to know and do them and in our hearts motivated by love.

 

[rogerg]

So in your view, is the works of the Holy Spirit not leading us to holiness and righteousness or is it leading one to be sinners and in rebellion to the very laws He wrote in our minds , to know and do them and in our hearts motivated by love.

The works of the Holy Spirit do lead to holiness and righteousness, but not through the following of, or an attempt to, satisfy law or commandments. To attempt to justify oneself by that, means those who do so are under law and thereby under God's wrath not under His grace. In God's eyes, rebellion isn't rebellion to the law but to His anointed, Jesus Christ whom He sent as the Savior.
The law written into the mind of unsaved man is the law of sin and death; the law written into the mind of saved man is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which is liberty from law.

 

[adamjordan53]

Yes Jesus did achieve everything.
Jesus is our saviour.

But your concept of salvation is different.
Does God give us freedom to choose?

Do we choose to accept salvation or are we forced to be saved?
Do we choose to be saved from sin. Or are we forced to overcome sin. Are we force to be free from sin?

Sin is a choice, and we need salvation from sin but the choice is for us to make.

Will God allow sin to dwell in heaven

Will God let sin continue in the hearts of sinful mankind?

No ... there is a point when sin will be no more. Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

We have a different view of salvation...
We both believe that Christ is the means of our salvation and it is a free gift.

but i do not believe that sin is forced out of us... we need to allow the holy Spirit to renew a new heart in us and transform us into his image. Daily choosing to allow God to work in us we can be saved from sin.

if being saved from sin is just a legal declaration of imputed righteousness then what is stopping us from sinning tomorrow?
Are we really saved from sin if our hearts are still sinful.
i believe being saved from sin is both imputed righteousness and imparted righteousness. Imparted righteousness is the righteous lifestyle and actions that Jesus lived imparted configuración del micrófono en Mac OS X. It id the Holy Spirit enabling us to live a holy life and do good works. It is an inward, and progressive change of character, often described as partaking in the divine nature.

Both are by Faith and all glory goes to God.

Rom 6:12-13
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Yes, that pretty much wraps up the rest of your post for you

 

[JimiSurvivor]

While Paul is Scripture, we are told he is misunderstood that can sadly lead one to the wrong path.

The statement that "we are told that Paul is misunderstood" came from the Apostle Peter who obviously did not understand some of Paul's teachings. From this you have decided that no one, except, perhaps for whatever sect you belongs to understands Paul either. Peter said he thought Paul was hard to understand not that he was IMPOSSIBLE for ANYONE to understand.

…15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. SOME PARTS of his letters are ARE HARD TO UNDERSTAND, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard so that you will not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…(2 Peter 3:15-17)

Apparently, you think merely citing a text and and then CLAIMING it applies to someone is sufficient to PROVE it. This is not the way it is done. There are numerous scriptures that focus on a many areas. Our responsibility as diligent students of the word is to use the historical-grammatical method to "rightly divide the word of truth" Our job is to find out what the scripture is saying not to import the presuppositions of our particular denomination or sect and call anyone who disagrees with it as LAWLESS and "headed towards destruction".
In this post, you use Peter's statement that SOME of Paul's writings were "hard to understand" to accuse EVERYONE who does not practice the Mosaic Sabbath is LAWLESS and WICKED. Well, since the wicked and lawless cannot enter the Kingdom of God this would make Sabbath keeping a requirement for entering into the Kingdom. Is this REALLY the way we enter the Kingdom - by performing works the Law? This conclusion, made on the basis of a system of assumptions and inferences contradicts the plain teachings of Paul such as:

…15We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile “sinners” 16 know that a man is not justified [declared to be righteous and acceptable to God] by works of the law [such as Sabbath-keeping], but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
(Galatians 2:16)

Obviously you think Sabbath-keeping has meritorious value and, that by practicing it, we can obtain favor and right-standing with God. However, this was the doctrine of the Judaizers which the Apostle Paul opposed and condemned. They taught that IN ADDITION to obeying the Messianic call to repentance and faith in Jesus, believers must ALSO adopt all the other practices of the Mosaic Law which included circumcision, keeping the festivals and eating kosher. Are you saying that ALL BELIEVERS in Jesus have been commanded to follow those practices also? To be consistent with your thesis you have have to say so.

 

[vassal]

You're the one who needs to read it because you do not understand that those saved have been justified completely by Christ
not by the works of law. You would place people back under the works of law, not God's grace through Christ.

the saved peoples are the ones who do God's will

 

[vassal]

You're the one who needs to read it because you do not understand that those saved have been justified completely by Christ
not by the works of law. You would place people back under the works of law, not God's grace through Christ.

No, you are twisting it. Jesus never said we are saved by law-keeping alone, but He did say, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and “He that believeth and obeyeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36).

Grace does not cancel obedience; it forgives and changes the heart so we actually follow Him.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The works of the Holy Spirit do lead to holiness and righteousness, but not through the following of, or an attempt to, satisfy law or commandments. To attempt to justify oneself by that, means those who do so are under law and thereby under God's wrath not under His grace. In God's eyes, rebellion isn't rebellion to the law but to His anointed, Jesus Christ whom He sent as the Savior.
The law written into the mind of unsaved man is the law of sin and death; the law written into the mind of saved man is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus which is liberty from law.

So the Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to only worship our Creator or not have thoughts of anger that lead up to committing thou shalt not murder? Are you sure we are reading the same book? The Holy Scriptures. The Word of God. Where faith comes from hearing the Word of God and we are called to be doers of the Word of God, not hearers.

 

[rogerg]

So the Holy Spirit doesn't lead us to only worship our Creator or not have thoughts of anger that lead up to committing thou shalt not murder? Are you sure we are reading the same book? The Holy Scriptures. The Word of God. Where faith comes from hearing the Word of God and we are called to be doers of the Word of God, not hearers.

Yikes! Did you actually read what I wrote? I said nothing even close to that. I said He doesn't do that by the law.
Okay, since you're misrepresenting what I'm posting, I'm not going to continue dialoguing with you further

 

[rogerg]

No, you are twisting it. Jesus never said we are saved by law-keeping alone, but He did say, “If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, ASV) and “He that believeth and obeyeth not the Son shall not see life” (John 3:36).

Grace does not cancel obedience; it forgives and changes the heart so we actually follow Him.

Grace brings obedience but obedience to Christ as THE Savior, not obedience to law for the justification of oneself.
Jesus's answer to the question which He was asked was based upon "what good thing shall I DO that I may enter eternal life". Jesus answered, replying to the "what must I do" part - that if someone wants to enter eternal life based upon what THEY DO, then, yes, they must keep the law and commandments perfectly, but no one will be saved based upon that because it's impossible for man to do so and a little doesn't count; they can only become saved based upon what Jesus did and which becomes imputed freely to them. There is no "law keeping alone" or even a little bit, in salvation; the only "alone" is through Christ alone.

[Jhn 3:36 KJV] 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Yikes! Did you actually read what I wrote? I said nothing even close to that. I said He doesn't do that by the law.
Okay, since you're misrepresenting what I'm posting, I'm not going to continue dialoguing with you further

But the law is what shows us our sins - Paul even said without the law, he would not know not coveting is wrong. Rom7:7 So the role of the law is to show us our sins so we know what God's standard of right and wrong doing are so we are not depending on what we feel is right or wrong. The Holy Spirit very much convicts us of sin which is breaking the law of God so we can't remove the role of the law and think we are inline with the will of God. It is not God's will that we sin and break His law why He personally wrote it out on stone for its eternal nature and than placed it in our minds so we know to do them and in our hearts because we delight in the law of the Lord. Psa 1:2 and want to do His fill Psa 40:8 because we love Him John14:15 Exo20:6

 

[rogerg]

the saved peoples are the ones who do God's will

The ones who do His will do it because they were saved, they don't it to become saved.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The ones who do His will do it because they were saved, they don't it to become saved.

Didn't he just say that?


🕊

 

[rogerg]

But the law is what shows us our sins - Paul even said without the law, he would not know not coveting is wrong. Rom7:7 So the role of the law is to show us our sins so we know what God's standard of right and wrong doing are so we are not depending on what we feel is right or wrong. The Holy Spirit very much convicts us of sin which is breaking the law of God so we can't remove the role of the law and think we are inline with the will of God. It is not God's will that we sin and break His law why He personally wrote it out on stone for its eternal nature and than placed it in our minds so we know to do them and in our hearts because we delight in the law of the Lord. Psa 1:2 and want to do His fill Psa 40:8 because we love Him John14:15 Exo20:6

Any attempt to justify oneself by the keeping of the law instead of by Christ alone, brings only God's wrath upon them