You're just sore because you know deep in your heart you'll be here in the GT too.
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The Tribulation: Part I - Refinement, Not Removal
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You're just sore because you know deep in your heart you'll be here in the GT too.
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Yes, play victim so you won't have to address the problems of your unbelief.
Don't get mad and blame me and other post-trib believers when the pre-trib rapture doesn't happen and you have to deal with the GT like everyone else.
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Vassal,
you are understanding correctly, we are very close to the day and hour Christ foretold in Matthew 24: 36 -39
sudden destruction! key word --sudden
You may not agree with this but all I have learned from study and been taught an EMP is the most likely way the United States will be utterly destroyed before the tribulation. and as per Ezekiel, the first 7 chapters, one third will die from famine and disease and one third by war and the third (100 million) remaining will be taken into captivity and shipped to gentile nations as slaves.
and out of that last third, 10% will return to Jerusalem by the 2nd Exodus after Christ has returned.
It is possible we are not but a year or two from Matt 24: 36-39, sudden destruction
the rate we are descending is accelerating.
I am old --born before WW2 my perceptive is longer then most, I see, I know how far we have fallen.
It is true that God corrects His children now. Jesus said, “As many as I love, I reprove and chasten” (Revelation 3:19, ASV). Trials can purify faith. Peter wrote, “that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth though it is proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7, ASV). So yes, believers go through trials, and these can refine us.
But the Scriptures do not say there is no judgment after death.
Jesus Himself said, “And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life” (Matthew 25:46, ASV). He also said, “Marvel not at this: for the hour cometh, in which all that are in the tombs shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28–29, ASV).
There is a coming judgment. It is not only in this life.
Again Jesus said, “And I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment” (Matthew 12:36, ASV). That is future. Not only now.
And the apostle John saw this in a vision: “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened… and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works” (Revelation 20:12, ASV).
So we must hold both truths. There is correction now. And there is judgment later.
Now concerning covenant and cleansing through blood.
Jesus said at the supper, “for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins”(Matthew 26:28, ASV). Yes, we are cleansed through His blood.
But Jesus also said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV).
Covenant is not a covering for disobedience. Covenant writes the law on the heart. As it is written, “And I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it” (Jeremiah 31:33, ASV).
So cleansing does not remove obedience. It produces obedience.
You say our walk is flawed. That is true. But Jesus did not lower the standard. He said, “Ye therefore shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48, ASV). He calls us higher, not lower.
Can a man walk in obedience and avoid much correction? Yes. Proverbs says, “The way of transgressors is hard”(Proverbs 13:15, ASV). Disobedience brings pain. Obedience brings peace.
But even the obedient suffer trials, not always for correction, but for faith. Job suffered, yet God said he was upright. Jesus said, “In the world ye have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world” (John 16:33, ASV). He did not say only the disobedient have trouble.
So we must not say all trials come from disobedience. Some come because we follow Him.
And about being clean through covenant — Jesus also warned, “Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away” (John 15:2, ASV). And again, “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch” (John 15:6, ASV).
Covenant is living. It must be kept.
Therefore, we are corrected now. We will stand before Him later. We are cleansed by His blood. And we are called to walk in obedience. Trials may purify us. Some are correction. Some are testing. But none of this removes the clear words of Jesus that there is a coming day when every man will answer before God.
we are close I get frequent dreams and got some visions that it is very close indeed. I do not know when but soon Christ returns.
Yes the second exodus will occur that is certain I had 40 days of visions about this a few years ago. All the remnants of Israel the there are millions will be called back to the promised land, it has started but is far from finished.
First, the promise in Revelation:
“Because thou didst keep the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole world” (Revelation 3:10, ASV).
This was spoken to a real church, in a real city. The promise is personal and conditional: “because you kept… I will keep.” It does not explain how He keeps. The Greek phrase can mean to guard, to preserve through, not only to remove from. In John 17:15 Jesus prayed, “I pray not that thou shouldest take them from the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil one.” The same thought appears there. Kept, but not taken out.
Now the verse about escape:
“But watch ye at every season, making supplication, that ye may prevail to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man” (Luke 21:36, ASV).
In that same chapter Jesus describes distress, persecution, betrayal, and signs in the heavens. He does not describe a secret removal. He calls for watchfulness and prayer so that one may stand before Him. To escape can mean to survive faithfully and not fall away. In Luke 21:19 He says, “In your patience ye shall win your souls.” Escape is linked with endurance.
You mention Noah and Lot.
Jesus said, “And as it came to pass in the days of Noah… so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man” (Luke 17:26). And again about Lot (Luke 17:28–30). But notice carefully: in both stories, the righteous were present until the very day judgment fell. Noah was on the earth until the flood came. Lot was in Sodom until the morning fire fell. The separation happened at the moment of judgment, not years before.
Jesus then says, “In that night there shall be two men on one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left”(Luke 17:34). When they ask, “Where?” He answers, “Where the body is, thither will the eagles also be gathered together” (Luke 17:37). That is a picture of judgment, not rescue.
Now the ten virgins.
In Matthew 25:1–13, all ten were waiting. All ten slept. The difference was oil. The oil shows readiness, the Spirit, a living faith. But notice this: the bridegroom came once. There is no earlier coming for five and later coming for the rest. When He came, the ready entered. The door was shut.
The parable teaches readiness, not a timeline of removal before tribulation.
You say you will never use trials as a basis for purity, because we are purified by the blood.
It is true that Jesus said, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many unto remission of sins”(Matthew 26:28, ASV). We are cleansed by His blood.
But the same Jesus said, “Every branch in me that beareth fruit, he cleanseth it, that it may bear more fruit” (John 15:2, ASV). Cleansing continues in the life of the believer.
Peter writes, “that the proof of your faith… being proved by fire, may be found unto praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:7, ASV).
The blood saves. Trials refine. These are not enemies.
Now about endurance.
Jesus said plainly, “He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13, ASV).
He did not say, “He that escapes seven years earlier.” He spoke those words in the same discourse where He described great tribulation (Matthew 24:21).
And in Matthew 24:29–31 He says, “But immediately after the tribulation of those days… they shall see the Son of man coming… and he shall send forth his angels… and they shall gather together his elect.”
The gathering is placed after the tribulation in His own words.
So we must hold all His sayings together.
Yes, there are promises of being kept. Yes, there is prayer for escape. Yes, Noah and Lot were delivered. Yes, we are cleansed by covenant blood.
But Jesus consistently prepares His disciples for suffering, calls them to endure, and places the visible gathering of the elect after tribulation.
Our hope is not in avoiding hardship. Our hope is in standing faithful and being found ready when He appears.
The oil matters. The blood matters. Obedience matters. Endurance matters.
And above all, His words must guide our understanding.
Hello Omegatime.
You stated that the US has the highest number of Christians.
Approximately 97-98% of Armenia's population identifies as Christian.
Approximately 62% to 69% of American adults identify as Christian.
The US has the most Christians in the world but not by the percentage of the population.
To "keep you out for the time of testing" requires removal. This is concerning time, not location, so we're talking about this "space/time continuum".
Much love!
If you were to ask at the time Jesus spoke these words, "Who are the chosen/elect?" ( this gathered when Jesus comes) and "Who are the nations?" (gathered after Jesus takes His throne) the answer would be, the "chosen" are the chosen nation, Israel, and the "nations" are everyone else, that is, the gentiles.
And this is what is prophesied. Jesus returns and gathers the chosen to the promised land, exactly as prophesied many times by the prophets. The Jesus takes His throne, the nations are gathered, and judged, righteous and wicked. There is no place here for the Church.
Much love!
Here is an interesting passage written by Paul.
2 Thessalonians 2:7-8
For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue
to do so till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus
will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.
The secret power of lawlessness is active and current but held back. When whomever holds it back is
removed and then the antichrist is revealed.
"till he is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed"
The antichrist is unknown to us until he is revealed.
We only find out who the antichrist is, it looks like, when Jesus returns or just before.
The lawless one (antichrist) will be revealed when he is taken out of the way.
Whether the one who holds him back is an angel, the H.S, the church, or someone else, we don't know.
The main point is that the secret power of lawlessness is active until the lawless one is revealed.
i am not certain, there are more than 10 sabbaths in the O.T. what do you mean?
comment"
Not trying to be confrontational -- just logical,
I realize many believe they will see all these prophecies as they take place, maybe watching on their TV.
when the 4th Seal, which is WW 3, comes, 25% of population of earth dies from disease, famine and war.
the 5th Seal is the Great Tribulation --2 billion die even before the Tribulation starts.
By the time the tribulation begins, the world will be turned up side down, and the Beast will began to rule with the false Prophet.
My study has shown me America is the first to be taken out. The Beast can't rise while America is still the world's power.
A double Sabbath year is one in which Passover (1/14) is on Wednesday, mid-week, Feast of Trumpets (7/1), the first day of Feast of Tabernacles (7/15) and the Last Great Day, (The 8th day) (7/22):
all three are observed on 7th Day Sabbaths, Thus: Double Sabbaths, High Sabbath & 7th Day Sabbath.
these dbl Sabbaths years are very special events.
like the birth of Christ, 7/15/ 4 BC -- Dbl Sabbath year
the Year He died, Christ was slain mid week on a Wednesday 1/14/31 AD. a double Sabbath Year.
from 7/15/4 BC to 1/14/31 AD is exactly 33 1/2 years to the day.
God's calendar is more important than people realize.
I keep all 7 Holy Feasts and Passover on the night of 1/14, God's calendar
here is a site I found with God's Calendar which matches all days I keep
http://www.cgsf.org/dbeattie/calendar/calendar?roman=31
A simple look at where we are on a time basis. The monk who started our modern calendar we use today started with the birth of the Lord but really should have started in the year when he was crucified and the beginning of the church age which by his accounting was year 33 AD.
Add two thousand years---2033
Substract 7 years
And we have 2026
I understand all the troubles with the calendars but it isn't a major flaw. Just shows how close we are
Add two thousand years---2033
Substract 7 years
And we have 2026
I understand all the troubles with the calendars but it isn't a major flaw. Just shows how close we are
and the trouble the entire world is in --- yes we are very close.
another sign, Matthew 25, 10 virgins -- all asleep
IMO the story of the 10 virgins is inside the Tribulation.
What was important to me was the delay.
Just as there was a delay for the Holy Spirit to come and the church started 50 days after the Lord's resurrection.
I see a repeat.
11 And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he who waits and comes to the thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.---resurrection Daniel 12
45 days difference
Not sure how you read the scripture but I will print the 5th Seal and you explain how you, derive
the great tribulation from that passage.
Revelation 6:9-11
When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain
because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried
out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging
our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they
were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their
brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Now show me.