Loss of salvation???

[James456]

Is speaking in tongues a necessary sign of salvation? - CARM https://share.google/7uWOksThVwjCzpXBC

Thanks for that.
Im afraid people who believe the Holy Spirit resides in the unsaved lack understanding, their extra biblical demands for salvation are just a result of that. Its the people who do believe them I feel sorry for

 

[sawdust]

You don't have to answer my questions, you now see your problems the only question is what are you going to do about them?

It's between you and JESUS.

Shame you can't see your problems.

 

[NightTwister]

The ones not repented of.

So it's all about timing? If I happen to commit a sin and then die before I repent from it I'm not saved?

 

[Ouch]

Why can’t you just answer a question directly? Do you believe those that are not water baptized and do not speak in tongues are saved? My answer= yes. Your answer= ?

I’m not asking you to provide scripture or write an essay. Just asking for a simple yes or no.

You don't have the abilty to beleive what JESUS says, but you want my view on it.

I agree with JESUS Unless a man is born of water and of spirit they are not going to enter heaven.

So no, how could they be???

A question for you, why would you think they would be???

If a man does not obey JESUS and HIS word, will he be saved?

 

[Ouch]

Tell me grasshopper, have you replied to Dan stating you would no longer reply to him, and “dusting my feet”?

If so you are a liar. And at the end of the Book we know what happens to liars.

Unless of course you can admit that if you are indeed saved you will remain so, and confess your sin!

I think your right about that, sometimes I personally get involved when I'm talking to those who do not follow HIS word and get frustrated.

Then JESUS tells my, they need to hear the truth so I'm back!!

I'm sure JESUS sees the problem, which is between HIM and me.

Why haven't' you responded to the things I challenge you on with all of your mistakes?

You just want to be a finger pointer???

 

[Ouch]

Did I judge you?

I am just letting you know what the Word of God says.

If anything?

It is the Word that judges you.

Please!.... I will let the Word speak for Himself.

Yep you judge me.

Then you shared GODS word, all of HIS word is good.

 

[Ouch]

We don't answer your questions because you never hear the answers.

Your stupidity game is your desire to control and manipulate the narrative.

.....

You just here to cause disruption.

 

[Ouch]

Shame you can't see your problems.

So you will not back up what you say with HIS word which is between you and JESUS, what are my problems?

I didn't say things that were untrue.

 

[sawdust]

So you will not back up what you say with HIS word which is between you and JESUS, what are my problems?

I didn't say things that were untrue.

Try answering some questions asked of you directly like the rest of us have done then you might sound plausible that you are here to discuss and not simply hit us all over the head with your understanding of scripture.

How many baptisms are there? Does one have to speak in tongues to be saved?

 

[Ouch]

Straw man argument.

Baptism does not remove our sins literally, but figurately. Mormons practice baptism for the dead.

All of Paul's letters are addressed to believers and not to the unsaved, yet that does not mean that you can't find the unsaved mixed in with the saved, professing to be saved. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout scripture, throughout various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

They were saved by believing the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. When will you believe?

When we read Acts 2:38 alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) we find that forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. In regard to Acts 8:12-17, Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) BUT later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) Bogus conversion!

In regard to the Samaritans in this unique case, in which receiving the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles themselves could be present to lay hands on them and therefore there would be no question that God had accepted the Samaritans into the church along with the Jews. Exception but not the rule. I'm surprised that you don't "add" must have hands laid on you in order to be saved as well through your cherry-picking method of hermeneutics.

What a ridiculous question.

End results in your thinking, you have been bapitzed in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Ghost.

You did it for a public display, not bible.

You claim you were filled with the Holy Ghost but nothing happed to you when you got it which something should have.

The other questions I asked you, you did not answere you answsered them with commdents.

You just like talking and not really discusing HIS word at all.

If you ever what to debate scripture where you ask me question and I anser and I ask you questions and you anwere let me know.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Try answering some questions asked of you directly like the rest of us have done then you might sound plausible that you are here to discuss and not simply hit us all over the head with your understanding of scripture.

How many baptisms are there? Does one have to speak in tongues to be saved?

Seems pretty simple to me; I'll give it a shot: 13 and no.

Amen.

=======
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[Ouch]

Try answering some questions asked of you directly like the rest of us have done then you might sound plausible that you are here to discuss and not simply hit us all over the head with your understanding of scripture.

How many baptisms are there? Does one have to speak in tongues to be saved?

I love it when people refuse to answer qustions but demand answers.

I don't live down a one way street.

 

[Toknow]

Straw man argument.

Baptism does not remove our sins literally, but figurately. Mormons practice baptism for the dead.

All of Paul's letters are addressed to believers and not to the unsaved, yet that does not mean that you can't find the unsaved mixed in with the saved, professing to be saved. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout scripture, throughout various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.

They were saved by believing the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. When will you believe?

When we read Acts 2:38 alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) we find that forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. In regard to Acts 8:12-17, Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) BUT later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) Bogus conversion!

In regard to the Samaritans in this unique case, in which receiving the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles themselves could be present to lay hands on them and therefore there would be no question that God had accepted the Samaritans into the church along with the Jews. Exception but not the rule. I'm surprised that you don't "add" must have hands laid on you in order to be saved as well through your cherry-picking method of hermeneutics.

What a ridiculous question.

Just a comment,,,we've been in this rodeo too many times to repeat.

You said this to the other member:

". I'm surprised that you don't "add" must have hands laid on you in order to be saved as well through your cherry-picking method of hermeneutics."

Here's why the laying on of hands is not necessary in order to be saved......:

BECAUSE the NT does not teach this.

It DOES teach that we are to be baptized.
We can debate why....which I doubt any of us really understands...
The NT does speak of baptism in realtion to salvation.

Jesus said to do it...
and that's a COMMAND...

We must (yes MUST) OBEY Jesus since we are born again believers.


Jesus said we are to ACT on His words in order to be saved.
Matthew 7:24

Baptism is AN ACTION that we perform.




And we are to OBEY JESUS.


Ananias to Paul:

Acts 22:16
14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear a [j]message from His mouth.

15 For you will be a witness for Him to all people of what you have seen and heard.

16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.’


Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were [ao]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[ap]Brothers, what are we to do?”

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Repent AND be baptized.

 

[James456]

Just a comment,,,we've been in this rodeo too many times to repeat.

You said this to the other member:

". I'm surprised that you don't "add" must have hands laid on you in order to be saved as well through your cherry-picking method of hermeneutics."

Here's why the laying on of hands is not necessary in order to be saved......:

BECAUSE the NT does not teach this.

It DOES teach that we are to be baptized.
We can debate why....which I doubt any of us really understands...
The NT does speak of baptism in realtion to salvation.

Jesus said to do it...
and that's a COMMAND...

We must (yes MUST) OBEY Jesus since we are born again believers.


Jesus said we are to ACT on His words in order to be saved.
Matthew 7:24

Baptism is AN ACTION that we perform.




And we are to OBEY JESUS.


Ananias to Paul:

Acts 22:16
14 And he said, ‘The God of our fathers has appointed you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear a [j]message from His mouth.

15 For you will be a witness for Him to all people of what you have seen and heard.

16 Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins by calling on His name.’


Acts 2:37-38
37 Now when they heard this, they were [ao]pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “[ap]Brothers, what are we to do?”

38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Repent AND be baptized.

But would you agree, if the Holy Spirit resides in people they are then in a saved state? Cornelius and his household received the spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues, prior to being baptised in water. So they must have been in saved states prior to baptism. I wonder if the catholic church touches on this in the following:
The Catholic faith teaches that God is not bound by his sacraments. This teaching is rooted in the belief that salvation is a divine act that does not require the sacraments. The Church emphasizes that the sacraments are a means to God's salvific offer, but they are not the end in themselves. The sacraments are seen as a way to express and receive God's grace, but they do not bind God to the sacraments

 

[sawdust]

Seems pretty simple to me; I'll give it a shot: 13 and no.

Amen.

=======
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Lol. I should have been more specific about the baptism question. My bad.

I have heard of seven baptisms. You have me curious now with thirteen.

 

[Genez]

Shame you can't see your problems.

He can't see himself?

He may be having a struggle over why his church taught that, and why he wants to believe it.
He can not admit to being capable of making an error if (so he thinks) the Holy Spirit is guiding him.

 

[sawdust]

I love it when people refuse to answer qustions but demand answers.

I don't live down a one way street.

But you have not answered any of our questions. We have answered yours time and time again but you never like the answers we give because you don't agree with them and then falsely claim we don't answer.

Answering the way you don't like is still an answer.

How many baptisms for the Church? And does one have to speak in tongues to be saved?

Stand up and be counted or are you afraid to reveal yourself?

 

[sawdust]

He can't see himself?

He may be having a struggle over why his church taught that, and why he wants to believe it.
He can not admit to being capable of making an error if (so he thinks) the Holy Spirit is guiding him.

Vampires don't like mirrors (self-reflection) either. This guy is certainly sucking the fun out sharing the word.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You don't have the abilty to beleive what JESUS says, but you want my view on it.

I agree with JESUS Unless a man is born of water and of spirit they are not going to enter heaven.

So no, how could they be???

A question for you, why would you think they would be???

If a man does not obey JESUS and HIS word, will he be saved?

A simple no would’ve been fine.

Why would I think they would be? Because I don’t read John 3:5 as “unless one takes a bath in water” let’s look at it this way and you tell me if it makes sense.
“Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭5‬ ‭ESV

Now let’s rephrase the verse so it says the exact same thing.

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless water and the Spirit give birth to one, that person cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Does it make sense if you look at it that way? NO. It says the same thing but looks weird because physical water is dead. There is no life in it. It cannot give birth to anything. Now could living water give birth? Yes.

Inanimate objects do nothing. We can do stuff with them but they do nothing on their own besides take up space. They definitely don’t give birth. Life comes from life.

 

[Toknow]

But would you agree, if the Holy Spirit resides in people they are then in a saved state? Cornelius and his household received the spirit as the disciples did at Pentecost and spoke in tongues, prior to being baptised in water. So they must have been in saved states prior to baptism. I wonder if the catholic church touches on this in the following:
The Catholic faith teaches that God is not bound by his sacraments. This teaching is rooted in the belief that salvation is a divine act that does not require the sacraments. The Church emphasizes that the sacraments are a means to God's salvific offer, but they are not the end in themselves. The sacraments are seen as a way to express and receive God's grace, but they do not bind God to the sacraments

I wonder from where you linked the above?

If I've understood correctly, here's what I believe about baptism:

The moment a person believes, he is saved.
The Holy Spirit will be WITH that person.

I understand baptism to give us the INDWELLING of the Holy Spirit...
He becomes a part of us.

We are to follow the commands of Jesus and He taught that the Apostles were to teach and make disciples and baptize.

The NT does teach that baptism saves.
HOW, I doubt anyone can really know.

Cornelius was saved BEFORE he even heard the message....
but then why also baptize him?

I believe what happened in the upper room of Acts 2 is a separate and unique occurrance, but I will not be adamant about this since I haven't "studied" it enough. It was Jesus giving them to power to witness and teach...this is then passed on from generation to generation by, exactly, the power given by the Holy Spirit.

The CC teaches that God gives grace to mankind with the sacraments...
but He is free to give grace to anyone, in any manner.

Salvation, in and of itself, is grace.

Let me add this,,,,
If we are adamant about NOT being baptized,,,,I'd say this is disobedience and thus a sin, and maybe against the Holy Spirit since we would be DENYING Him.

comment?