Because you keep adding to it. Nothing you do will save you, that is why it is called a gift.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Because you keep adding to it. Nothing you do will save you, that is why it is called a gift.
Ok, so you got baptized but didn't know what it was for.
So for a public display since you claim you were already saved!
Matthew, 6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
4 That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
Do you see how JESUS describes the difference between doing things for men rather than GOD?
Let's look at the three verse you shared.
Acts 15,
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
So Peter is speaking of the Gentiles, how they were filled with the Holy Ghost purifying their hearts by faith.
This is what Peter is speaking of,
Acts 10:46-47
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
DID GOD FILL YOU AS HE DID THEM?
This is the rest of what happened,
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Did they wait to call others to watch them since it was a public display?
Romans 1,
FIRST note, JESUS is talking to a church he started,
7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
What Gospel of Christ did everyone believe? The Jews, the Greek and what happened to them? Both cases, were baptized and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Do you know where Paul was when he wrote 1 Cor? He was in Ephesus Acts 19, where he asked HAVE YOU RECEIVED THE HOLY GHOST SINCE YOU HAVE BELIEVED?
So you're calming that Paul would give a different message than Peter did telling Corinthians there was a different way to be saved!!!
FIRST, to keep things in context this chapter is speaking of the aspects of the resurrection. THEY WERE BAPTIZED FOR THE DEAD.
1 Corinthians 15:29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Meaning they knew what baptism removes our sins, what other reasons would they be doing it?
SECOND, Paul is speaking to his church again NOT THE UNSAVED!
1 Corinthians 1:1 Paul called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:
1 Corinthians 15,
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Paul begins his letter by reminding the group that he declared to them the gospel by which they were saved by.
Which was the same message that the Jews, Gentiles and Samaritans heard. (Acts 2:22-41; 8:12-17; 10:37-48)
Since Paul is speaking to the church were you there to hear and react on that message that was preached?
Or was you there helping them baptizing for the dead, so is it's you Paul is speaking to telling you not to do it?
I really can see that you are open, not trying to battle which is a good thing.
This is not which one of us is right it's about JESUS and HIS word alone.
Here's the problem I ask all the time, why do we have ONE GOD and so many different denomanions?
Men get involved, they don't like some rules that JESUS gave us so they just start a new chruch with their own rules.
I started my walk in a baptist church following the preacher, he's a preacher from GOD right? and found later how wrong he was.
Lucky JESUS keep me humble, as we can learn from any chruch but the foudation is the most important thing, where we go when we die.
We have to be humbel, if not how could JESUS correct us? Right?
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
To keep things in context Paul is speaking to one of the churchs he started.
Ephesians 1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Which the church in Ephesus was started in Acts 19, after Paul baptized them and JESUS filled them with the Holy Ghost verse 6, Paul stuck around there for years preaching.
No detate we are saved by grace, but how do we get saved?
Claming we are saved by grace does that mean everyone is saved since that letter was written, or is there conditions?
Everything is between you and JESUS as my walk is also, but how do you think we get rid of our sins?
First you say, you were baptized in obedience, then you say it was a sign to all that you have faith.
The first one is correct.
Did you know that it was never recored in HIS word where someone was baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ?
In Matthew JESUS was talking to HIS disciples who knew who HE was, how did they tell us to baptize? Notice the wording? 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them (((in the name of))) the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
What is "THE NAME OF"
What do you think of the first message that JESUS promised to be preached?
Acts 2,
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Satan assumed he was good, GOD kicked him out of Heaven.
So you claming it's me with eisehesis is not right, as I DON'T HARMONIZE SCRITURE!!!
I let scripture (JESUS) speak for it's or HIMSELF!!
I don't reach for conclusion's, I just share HIS word.
HIS word is prefect just the way it is, because of people like you and your harmonizing HIS word is why there are so many differtnt demnomantions!!
You don't let JESUS talk, becaue it's you who is doing all of the talking.
I can only share HIS word, I keep my opinion out of it, of course not all will see.
Because you keep adding to it. Nothing you do will save you, that is why it is called a gift.
That is your responce???? CAN'T ANWERE THE QUESTIONS, THINKING THEY WILL JUST GO AWAY?
YOU ASKED ME WHAT YOU LIED ABOUT!!!!
YOU DON'T CARE THAT YOU LIED?????
BACK UP WHAT COMES OUT OF YOUR MOUTH WITH HIS WORD OR IT'S A LIE FROM SATAT!!!
Again you say the same thing,
NOTHING YOU CAN DO? MEANING EVERYONE CAN DO NOTHING TO SAVE OURSELVES? PROVE IT.
This was my last post that, responding to you where you asked me what you lied about.
What part is a lie? I let you finger it out for yourself if, IF you answer these questions.
Can you back up this up with his SCRIPTURE????
Breaking down your commment.
To believe on Christ for salvation? That He atoned for our sins? That salvation is based on Christ's work, His death and His resurrection and there is nothing you can do that would satisfy God's holy justice and take away your sin?
1. To believe on Christ for salvation? Beliveing is the first part, were good.
"That He atoned for our sins? That salvation is based on Christ's work, His death and His resurrection and"
2. there is nothing you can do that would satisfy God's holy justice and take away your sin?
The second part of your of that statement.
Nothing you do takes away your sin, only what Christ did and only by His baptism with the Spirit are you placed in Him where your sins are forgiven. His blood remits sin. We are in a New covenant where the symbols (water) have been replaced with the reality.
1. Nothing you do takes away your sin.
2. only what Christ did and only by His baptism with the Spirit are you placed in Him where your sins are forgiven
3. His blood remits sin, is a given.
4. We are in a New covenant where the symbols (water) have been replaced with the reality.
I would never debate GODS word.
Why do you say I don't comprehend how to be saved? and how we are forgiven?
ME, 1. Believe,
2. Repent,
3. Get baptized to remove our sins,
4. JESUS fills us with His Spirit and you will speak in tongues.
YOU, 1. Believe.
YOU CAN NOT SHARE ONE VERSE THAT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, IF YOU BELIEVE YOUR SAVED!!!! NOT ONE AND YOU NEED TWO!!!
PLEASE, PLEASE just answer the questions.
Peter did not make a mistake. In Acts 11 he made the comment, who was I to withstand God AFTER seeing Him fill the people with the Holy Ghost. Peter's comment indicates he would have been going against God's wishes if he did not command they be water baptized in the name of Jesus.
"Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life. " Acts 11:17-18
Jesus said, "...Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things." Luke 24:46-48
I've said more than enough to you already. You have ignored half of the word I shared with you so why should I keep bothering?
Tell me how many baptisms there are and maybe I'll answer more of your questions.
J
James456
Guest
Reading the bible as a literal rulebook:
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John3:8&9
So now you have a problem according to the letter of what is written
Same as Acts 2:38
So now people have to believe the Holy Spirit dwells in the unsaved, which would mean Father and Son dwell in the unsaved.
You will always end up with contradiction if you read the bible as an inflexible rulebook, quote the letter inflexibly and insist it must be fully followed at all times
The pharisees of Jesus day did that, but they did not understand the message the letter contained
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1John1:8
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God 1John3:8&9
So now you have a problem according to the letter of what is written
Same as Acts 2:38
So now people have to believe the Holy Spirit dwells in the unsaved, which would mean Father and Son dwell in the unsaved.
You will always end up with contradiction if you read the bible as an inflexible rulebook, quote the letter inflexibly and insist it must be fully followed at all times
The pharisees of Jesus day did that, but they did not understand the message the letter contained
Romans 6:5 reveals water baptism is essential:
5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:"
It’s not really about opinions. It’s about beliefs. For instance I believe a person can and will be saved without water baptism and without speaking in tongues. Do you believe a person will go to hell if they aren’t baptized in water and don’t speak in tongues?
Beliefs are what we hold as true. Opinions are what we like, think, or feel. So what do you hold as truth?
His withstand God comment was in relation to the fact that Gentiles were being included as that was the contention but his remembering was to do with baptism. Water was John's baptism, the Spirit was Christ's baptism. Peter was starting to cotton onto what Christ meant by baptism.
Acts 11:1-3
Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, 3 saying, “You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!”
Acts 11:15-16
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
There is one baptism and only one baptism. You need to face the fact. Peter did get it wrong but he at least was correctable.
And once more I will point out the irony, two of the greatest salvation moments in history, the Flood and the Exodus, is where those saved did not get wet.
Water baptism signifies being buried with Christ in death and being raised to walk in newness of life. That was my public testimony. Baptism is a symbol of salvation in that it pictures Christ's death, burial and resurrection and our identification with Him as our Savior. In reality, believers are literally saved by what baptism symbolizes, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Yet you try to turn a sign into a savior. I was already saved when I believed the gospel prior to receiving water baptism.
This has absolutely nothing to do with my baptism. This is in regard to alms, charitable deeds and praying to be seen by others to receive glory from men. Water baptism is a testimony before men and not a vain glory seeking mission.
Receiving water baptism is not simply doing things for men rather than God. Believers receive water baptism in public and not in secret.
Hear the word of the gospel and believe. No difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith (and not by baptism).
You skipped verse 45 - And those of the circumcision who believed (which is how they were saved - vs. 43) were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. In addition, these Gentiles spoke in tongues as an undeniable sign to Jewish believers that God had granted the Holy Spirit to these non-Jews which confirmed their equal standing in the church, the body of Christ.
God filled me with the Holy Spirit which caused me to speak the word of God boldly, as we see in Acts 4:31, but I did not speak in tongues, and not all speak in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:29-31) Whatever you experienced in regard to being filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues (or though you experienced but were deceived) has caused you to feel superior over those who have not spoken in tongues, which raises a red flag.
This is what happened. They were commanded to be baptized AFTER they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were saved. (Acts 10:43-47)
Water baptism is not mentioned in the gospel (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is not a part of the gospel. (1 Corinthians 1:17) Water baptism "follows" believing the gospel and salvation. All believers receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, but not all are immediately filled with the Holy Spirit for the purpose of speaking in tongues. You need to consider the totality of scripture. You are too fixed on your pet verses.
That still does not change the fact that salvation is by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9) or that not all speak in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:29-31)
CONTINUED..
Straw man argument.
Baptism does not remove our sins literally, but figurately. Mormons practice baptism for the dead.
All of Paul's letters are addressed to believers and not to the unsaved, yet that does not mean that you can't find the unsaved mixed in with the saved, professing to be saved. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout scripture, throughout various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.
They were saved by believing the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. When will you believe?
When we read Acts 2:38 alongside verses like (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) we find that forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism. In regard to Acts 8:12-17, Simon the sorcerer is said to have “believed and was baptized” at the preaching of Philip (Acts 8:13) BUT later, when Simon offers the apostles money to have their ability to impart the Holy Spirit (verses 18–19), he is rebuked by Peter. Peter answered: "May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity. (verses 20-24) Bogus conversion!
In regard to the Samaritans in this unique case, in which receiving the Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles themselves could be present to lay hands on them and therefore there would be no question that God had accepted the Samaritans into the church along with the Jews. Exception but not the rule. I'm surprised that you don't "add" must have hands laid on you in order to be saved as well through your cherry-picking method of hermeneutics.
What a ridiculous question.
I've said more than enough to you already. You have ignored half of the word I shared with you so why should I keep bothering?
Tell me how many baptisms there are and maybe I'll answer more of your questions.
You don't have to answer my questions, you now see your problems the only question is what are you going to do about them?
It's between you and JESUS.
Satan fell because of PRIDE and wickedness. (Isaiah 14:12-15; Ezekiel 28:12-18)
Your eisegesis is the result of flawed hermeneutics.
You may quote Jesus, but you still speak for Him.
Keep telling yourself that.
I hear that same argument from Roman Catholics.
That statement is the epitome of IRONY!
Do you believe what JESUS says???
Or just what you think?
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Can't enter Heaven with out both, being born of water and of spirit.
JESUS says the same thing in Mark,
Mark 16:16-17
King James Version
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
J
James456
Guest
They have one tracked minds(or maybe two), can't see much beyond them. Hence, when I asked them both what is the new covenant, neither of them answered