Works of the Law

[Inquisitor]

inquisitor, you are using your own definition not the Lords, different laws different purpose, the ten commandments GOD named it himself the Covenant and it belongs in the ark of the covenant, we have discussed this before at length. The rest of the law of Moses flows from the ten commandments but served a purpose for the israelites of that time, today most of it cannot be followed, this is what Paul was referring to in all his epistles it was never about the ten commandments ( the Covenant) I have texts that explain this in more detail if you need. Know that some of these Mosaic laws will be reinstated in the millennium Kingdom on Christ returns, the prophets of the O.T speak of this but now for gentiles it is the ten Commandments that constiture the New covenant, not written on stone bur written in out hearts and minds.

You said, "the ten commandments GOD named it himself the Covenant".

This is what the text states about the covenant that the Lord made with Israel at Mt Sinai.

Exodus 24:3-8
Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and
all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!”
Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at
the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel. He sent young men of the
sons of Israel, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as peace offerings to the Lord.
Moses took half of the blood and put it in basins, and the other half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said,
“All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” So Moses took the blood and sprinkled
it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has made with you in
accordance with all these words.”

Moses wrote down ALL the words of the Lord and that was the book of the covenant!

Exodus 24:3-8, does not even mention the ten commandments.

I asked AI to read Exodus 24:3-8 and decide if the ten commandments are the book of the covenant.
Or is the entire law called the book of the covenant?

Exodus 24:3–8 (key observations from the text itself):

“Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the rules…” (24:3)
“And Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD.” (24:4)
“Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the hearing of the people…” (24:7)​

What are “all the words of the LORD”?

In the immediate context:

• Exodus 20:1–17 – The Ten Commandments (“God spoke all these words…”)
• Exodus 20:22–23:33 – Additional laws, judgments, and ordinances (altar laws, civil laws, social laws, sabbath laws, promises concerning the land, etc.)

Exodus 24:3 explicitly distinguishes:

• “all the words of the LORD”
• “and all the rules” (ESV; cf. judgments/ordinances)

Exodus 24:4 then says:

“Moses wrote down all the words of the LORD.”​

Exodus 24:7 calls what he wrote:

“the Book of the Covenant.”​

Therefore (from the text):

The “Book of the Covenant” includes:

• The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1–17), and
• The additional laws given in Exodus 20:22–23:33.

It is not limited to the Ten Commandments alone.

Supporting distinction in the text

Later Scripture distinguishes:

• The Ten Commandments written on tablets by God (Exodus 24:12; 31:18; 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4),
• From the Book of the Covenant written by Moses (Exodus 24:4, 7).

Thus, in Exodus 24:3–8, the “Book of the Covenant” contains all the words the LORD spoke in Exodus 20–23, not only the Ten Commandments.

There is no doubt about what Exodus 24:3-8 is telling us.

 

[vassal]

Are you pretending to be innocent?

Dont start, not interested in discussing this. if you want to discuss anything please lets discuss the O.P.

 

[memberofthebride]

inquisitor, you are using your own definition not the Lords, different laws different purpose, the ten commandments GOD named it himself the Covenant and it belongs in the ark of the covenant, we have discussed this before at length. The rest of the law of Moses flows from the ten commandments but served a purpose for the israelites of that time, today most of it cannot be followed, this is what Paul was referring to in all his epistles it was never about the ten commandments ( the Covenant) I have texts that explain this in more detail if you need. Know that some of these Mosaic laws will be reinstated in the millennium Kingdom on Christ returns, the prophets of the O.T speak of this but now for gentiles it is the ten Commandments that constiture the New covenant, not written on stone bur written in out hearts and minds.

vassal and inquisitor

What is known as "Torah", "The ONE Path - ONE WAY" God's righteous lawful Path for "existing" for ever with perfect results! --perfection, unity - producing ONE MIND with zero problems!

Torah reveals the ONE WAY- the only WAY God - The Father and The Word/Jesus Christ Themselves LIVE, exist in "eternity" in perfect harmony .

the Torah reveals the perfect mind and Divine Nature of GOD,
The Torah is THE WAY, The ONLY WAY that results in and produces perfect just relationships.

The God Family is bringing Their future Family, mankind, in to ONENESS with Them. That ONENESS is revealed to man -- by the Torah.

Jesus Christ is returning and HE will rule the entire earth, Judging, punishing and rewarding by Torah.

Satan has refused the MIND OF GOD, God's Righteous ONE WAY found in TORAH.

from Adam on Satan has infected mankind with his mind and the results are very clear -- 6000 years of suffering, pain and death.

GOD IS ONE WAY

 

[Inquisitor]

vassal and inquisitor

What is known as "Torah", "The ONE Path - ONE WAY" God's righteous lawful Path for "existing" for ever with perfect results! --perfection, unity - producing ONE MIND with zero problems!

Torah reveals the ONE WAY- the only WAY God - The Father and The Word/Jesus Christ Themselves LIVE, exist in "eternity" in perfect harmony .

the Torah reveals the perfect mind and Divine Nature of GOD,
The Torah is THE WAY, The ONLY WAY that results in and produces perfect just relationships.

The God Family is bringing Their future Family, mankind, in to ONENESS with Them. That ONENESS is revealed to man -- by the Torah.

Jesus Christ is returning and HE will rule the entire earth, Judging, punishing and rewarding by Torah.

Satan has refused the MIND OF GOD, God's Righteous ONE WAY found in TORAH.

from Adam on Satan has infected mankind with his mind and the results are very clear -- 6000 years of suffering, pain and death.

GOD IS ONE WAY

Incorrect.

The Divine Nature is clearly seen in the Christ after all Jesus was God.

The character of God is clearly visible in the fruit of the Holy Spirit also.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control; against such things there is no law.

The Torah was fulfilled by the one and only Lord of Heaven and Earth.

 

[memberofthebride]

Incorrect.

The Divine Nature is clearly seen in the Christ after all Jesus was God.

The character of God is clearly visible in the fruit of the Holy Spirit also.

Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness,
self-control; against such things there is no law.

The Torah was fulfilled by the one and only Lord of Heaven and Earth.

comment:

So you are saying Christ stopped at a red light -- so I do not ever have to stop at one forever??

very logical --makes perfect sense and all 40,000 flavors of confusions shouted for joy! Free at last!

Lexical Summary

"fulfull" #4731 pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill​

Christ came to fill the Torah to the Full, not to destroy as He clearly stated twice.

He came to complete the Torah -- The Old Covenant was only Physical, death for physical transgressions,

If you will read further in Matthew 5 you will read Christ raised the law, completed, filled it to the full,
so even transgressing the Torah in one's mind was now punished by death.

I am certain the 40,000 can twist this as well

You know who else wants, demands the Torah to be abolished --- sure you do?
It is the Torah that puts him in total darkness for ever.

 

[memberofthebride]

comment:

So you are saying Christ stopped at a red light -- so I do not ever have to stop at one forever??

very logical --makes perfect sense and all 40,000 flavors of confusions shouted for joy! Free at last!

Lexical Summary
"fulfull" #4731 pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

Christ came to fill the Torah to the Full, not to destroy as He clearly stated twice.

He came to complete the Torah -- The Old Covenant was only Physical, death for physical transgressions,

If you will read further in Matthew 5 you will read Christ raised the law, completed, filled it to the full,
so even transgressing the Torah in one's mind was now punished by death.

I am certain the 40,000 can twist this as well

You know who else wants, demands the Torah to be abolished --- sure you do?
It is the Torah that puts him in total darkness for ever.

I will give you one more thought;

The NT tells those that follow Christ they are to come out of this evil lawless world.
I doubt most would dispute this. even Paul says to do so.

The "way" of the majority of the 40,000 is accepted by this world as normal every day life.

Xmas, easter, sunday, valentines day on and on, are, among "christian" nations, accepted as normal.

if this is Normal,, if this is accepted even at the Presidential level, the president lights a tree every xmas - right?
are those following this "normal way" -- in this world or out of it?

Which "world" are "Christians" to come out of??

Please explain 'exactly' what it is the "WORD" wants those that follow Christ --- to come out of?

In the days following the resurrection of Christ -- those given the Father's Spirit,
left both; Judaism and paganism - the normal world,
They rejected everything "normal", every thing accepted as religion in that day.

I reject the Way of the 40,000

 

[Gideon300]

vassal and inquisitor

What is known as "Torah", "The ONE Path - ONE WAY" God's righteous lawful Path for "existing" for ever with perfect results! --perfection, unity - producing ONE MIND with zero problems!

Torah reveals the ONE WAY- the only WAY God - The Father and The Word/Jesus Christ Themselves LIVE, exist in "eternity" in perfect harmony .

the Torah reveals the perfect mind and Divine Nature of GOD,
The Torah is THE WAY, The ONLY WAY that results in and produces perfect just relationships.

The God Family is bringing Their future Family, mankind, in to ONENESS with Them. That ONENESS is revealed to man -- by the Torah.

Jesus Christ is returning and HE will rule the entire earth, Judging, punishing and rewarding by Torah.

Satan has refused the MIND OF GOD, God's Righteous ONE WAY found in TORAH.

from Adam on Satan has infected mankind with his mind and the results are very clear -- 6000 years of suffering, pain and death.

GOD IS ONE WAY

You just have a different Bible from mine. Moses had the Torah given to him personally by God. Yet for Moses, it was not enough. He wanted to know God's ways. You reckon that the Torah is the way? Then you deny Lord Jesus, because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. Yet you settle for the written word instead of the Living Word. Do you not know that Lord Jesus is God's Word?

Hebrews does not say, look to the Torah so that your faith might be perfected. It says we should be looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. I hope you one day realise that your concept of Christianity has nothing to do with reality - according to God's word.

 

[memberofthebride]

You just have a different Bible from mine. Moses had the Torah given to him personally by God. Yet for Moses, it was not enough. He wanted to know God's ways. You reckon that the Torah is the way? Then you deny Lord Jesus, because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God. Yet you settle for the written word instead of the Living Word. Do you not know that Lord Jesus is God's Word?

Hebrews does not say, look to the Torah so that your faith might be perfected. It says we should be looking to Jesus, the author and finisher of your faith. I hope you one day realise that your concept of Christianity has nothing to do with reality - according to God's word.

COMMENT:


Jesus Christ "IS THE WORD", every thing that has been made was made by HIM, Every spoken, inspired, written Word came from HIM!

I not only LOOK to Christ --I OBEY HIS EVERY WORD!

It was Christ that wrote the 10 Commandments on two tables of stone, two "witnesses" against men.

Moses and 70 elders SAW Christ and ate a meal with HIM -- and Christ stated" no man has seen the Father BUT HIM.. Show us how you can twist that one?

How can you not understand Christ's own words ----???

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The Torah --the first 5 books of the OT are from the mouth of Christ our MAKER --GOD! Not the Father.

This verse alone proves the OT is not abolished, not ended by the NT.

and as some on this blog have stated; the words of Christ were only for Jews!!!

If that were so then the NT should only have the letters of Paul.

It is a fact; the 40,000 are deceived. they have come up with every brilliant way to negate the Word of God.
Broad is the Way of the 40,000!

It is 40,000 "ways" wide.

 

[Gideon300]

COMMENT:


Jesus Christ "IS THE WORD", every thing that has been made was made by HIM, Every spoken, inspired, written Word came from HIM!

I not only LOOK to Christ --I OBEY HIS EVERY WORD!

It was Christ that wrote the 10 Commandments on two tables of stone, two "witnesses" against men.

Moses and 70 elders SAW Christ and ate a meal with HIM -- and Christ stated" no man has seen the Father BUT HIM.. Show us how you can twist that one?

How can you not understand Christ's own words ----???

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The Torah --the first 5 books of the OT are from the mouth of Christ our MAKER --GOD! Not the Father.

This verse alone proves the OT is not abolished, not ended by the NT.

and as some on this blog have stated; the words of Christ were only for Jews!!!

If that were so then the NT should only have the letters of Paul.

It is a fact; the 40,000 are deceived. they have come up with every brilliant way to negate the Word of God.
Broad is the Way of the 40,000!

It is 40,000 "ways" wide.

It's a shame. You have your own concept of salvation and truth. It has nothing to do with the gospel of the Kingdom. Good luck at the judgement seat of Christ.

 

[vassal]

It's a shame. You have your own concept of salvation and truth. It has nothing to do with the gospel of the Kingdom. Good luck at the judgement seat of Christ.

what is your concept of salvation and truth, lets us examine abd discuss, after all this is a discussion forum.

As for the Kingdom I do preach it here I have written a few posts on this already in threads and post but it is not a popular topic on this forum here is an example where i got ZERO replies;

https://christianchat.com/threads/g...-of-god’s-coming-kingdom.220823/#post-5597796

another problem here on this forum is that I have attempted to post twice this week new threads the they are not coming out, I have to ask admin about this to see what is happening.

But yes I am due to preach again the Kingdom of heaven on this site.

 

[memberofthebride]

It's a shame. You have your own concept of salvation and truth. It has nothing to do with the gospel of the Kingdom. Good luck at the judgement seat of Christ.

It's a shame. You have your own concept of salvation and truth. It has nothing to do with the gospel of the Kingdom. Good luck at the judgement seat of Christ.

4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

actual Christians are being Judged now in this life, not later.
How can it be other wise, judgement must come before the First Resurrection, at which we are raise to eternal life. My judgement began 6 decades ago and I am still obeying and being blessed beyond my wildest dreams.

In the above quote; we are told by our PASSOVER, Jesus Christ to live by every word, yet the 40,000 have come up with so many ways to NOT DO SO,
Do they rest on the 7th Day? the 40,000 say no -- that one is not important - it is for the Jews .
Do they keep any of the other 9 as Christ stated His followers will be doing?

My own concept of salvation is "DOING the Will of MY FATHER' as Christ taught I MUST DO!

But the 40,000 have even watered down the will of the Father to just "believing" Jesus is Christ!
no action, no works, no nothing but 'thinking' in one's mind---

the 40,000 have and must ignore 98 % of the word of God, it reveals their sins.

 

[Nedsk]

I have been deeply shocked and hurt by assumptions concerning their interpretation.

If we jump before the starter's pistol then we are disqualified.

We need to establish in the first instance the true cause of our salvation.

Are we saved at the primary level by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Before there is any discussion on the "will of God", works, legal works, fruit, etc.

It is necessary to establish the first cause; the basis of our salvation.

I really can't figure out why so many struggle to understand this. Its shocking to me that people seem unable to intellectually hold more than one idea in their mind at a time. We are saved by death and resurrection of Jesus christ the savior of the world. Salvation is not possible any other way but ....that only makes salvation available. Salvation is available to everyone but not everyone will be saved.

Works of the law and works are NOT the same thing. That doesn't render either of them meaningless. James is clear that works complete faith and as a result faith without works is dead. If all that's needed for salvation is faith then there would be no need for judgement but there will be judgement. If salvation was certain and cannot he lost there would be no need for judgement but there will be a judgement.

 

[Nedsk]

You should do yourself favor and look up the definition of perfect

Works are evidence for who? God? God doesn't need evidence, he knows your heart. So who is this "evidence" for? The fact is you can't say works are meaningless but faith alone doesn't jive with Scripture. Matt 7:21, Matt 25:31-46

Believe me I have looked up the meaning of perfect so should you. It means complete not inerrant.

Where did I say works.were meaningless?

 

[pinebeach]

James is clear when taken in context.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims (key word) he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So, when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith.

So, James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

James is not using the term "justified" in James 2:24 to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

This is such a great post. You explain clearly from scripture, what James meant in v.14. What has been said many times in response to this and other similar threads, is that a believer in Jesus will demonstrate or show a changed life and will desire to obey what is right and will not desire to sin.

People do struggle with sin and some more than others; no one becomes instantly sinless but we progress in our faith becoming mature and we should exhibit the fruit of the Holy Spirit. But again, these things develop and are not a 'gift' to anyone.

Context is the key to understanding all of scripture. That includes ALL of the Old Testament and ALL of the New Testament.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

what is your concept of salvation and truth, lets us examine abd discuss, after all this is a discussion forum.

As for the Kingdom I do preach it here I have written a few posts on this already in threads and post but it is not a popular topic on this forum here is an example where i got ZERO replies;

https://christianchat.com/threads/glad-tidings-in-times-of-trouble-the-hope-of-god’s-coming-kingdom.220823/#post-5597796

another problem here on this forum is that I have attempted to post twice this week new threads the they are not coming out, I have to ask admin about this to see what is happening.

But yes I am due to preach again the Kingdom of heaven on this site.

I think no one posted to it because there's nothing to argue about the Kingdom. It's what everyone is hoping for.

I'll post some things there, but I admit they will be frivolous.


🕊

 

[Inquisitor]

comment:

So you are saying Christ stopped at a red light -- so I do not ever have to stop at one forever??

very logical --makes perfect sense and all 40,000 flavors of confusions shouted for joy! Free at last!

Lexical Summary
"fulfull" #4731 pléroó: To fill, to make full, to complete, to fulfill

Christ came to fill the Torah to the Full, not to destroy as He clearly stated twice.

He came to complete the Torah -- The Old Covenant was only Physical, death for physical transgressions,

If you will read further in Matthew 5 you will read Christ raised the law, completed, filled it to the full,
so even transgressing the Torah in one's mind was now punished by death.

I am certain the 40,000 can twist this as well

You know who else wants, demands the Torah to be abolished --- sure you do?
It is the Torah that puts him in total darkness for ever.

Moses wrote about Jesus.

Grace and TRUTH came through Jesus.

Jesus is the fulfillment of everything in all ways.

We only preach Jesus Christ and not the Torah.

The scripture had one purpose and that was the revelation of the Christ.

The Torah fulfilled it's purpose but one greater arrived, far greater.

 

[Nedsk]

Moses wrote about Jesus.

Grace and TRUTH came through Jesus.

Jesus is the fulfillment of everything in all ways.

We only preach Jesus Christ and not the Torah.

The scripture had one purpose and that was the revelation of the Christ.

The Torah fulfilled it's purpose but one greater arrived, far greater.

Matt 5:17

There was a purpose to the law and Jesus wasn't dismissing it, he came to help us live the spirit of the the law not just the letter of the law so we could be made worthy of the salvation he made available to us. Not certainty of salvation but availability to salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

Matt 5:17

There was a purpose to the law and Jesus wasn't dismissing it, he came to help us live the spirit of the the law not just the letter of the law so we could be made worthy of the salvation he made available to us. Not certainty of salvation but availability to salvation.

The only purpose of the law was to give Israel a knowledge of it's sin.

There is no righteousness available in that legal obedience.

The law was temporary until the arrival of Jesus.

Why the Law then? It was added on account of the violations, having been ordered through angels
at the hand of a mediator, until the Seed would come to whom the promise had been made. (Galatians 3:19)

The ten commandments are not eternal and never were.

 

[Dino246]

4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The Torah --the first 5 books of the OT are from the mouth of Christ our MAKER --GOD! Not the Father.

This verse alone proves the OT is not abolished, not ended by the NT.

It proves nothing of the sort.

God told His people who were bitten by poisonous snakes to look at the bronze snake and live. Does that literally still hold true? No.

God told His people to pack lightly and leave Egypt quickly. Does that still hold true? No.

God told His people to stone adulterers. Does that still hold true? No.

Learn how to divide the word rightly.

 

[memberofthebride]

The only purpose of the law was to give Israel a knowledge of it's sin.

There is no righteousness available in that legal obedience.

The law was temporary until the arrival of Jesus.

Why the Law then? It was added on account of the violations, having been ordered through angels
at the hand of a mediator, until the Seed would come to whom the promise had been made. (Galatians 3:19)

The ten commandments are not eternal and never were.

I love it when folks call Jesus Christ

It proves nothing of the sort.

God told His people who were bitten by poisonous snakes to look at the bronze snake and live. Does that literally still hold true? No.

God told His people to pack lightly and leave Egypt quickly. Does that still hold true? No.

God told His people to stone adulterers. Does that still hold true? No.

Learn how to divide the word rightly.

LOL-- so what is the - rule - for "rightly dividing the Word of GOD" according to you?

It would appear that nothing, according to you "holds true"!

What then IS "TRUTH" ---THE TRUTH Jesus Christ came to deliver that will set us free?

and what is it we are to be freed from --according to you?

Before I came on this blog I knew there was confusion, I did not realize how complete it IS.

the prophecy that the whole world at the time of the end would be completely deceived is true!

The term; " The 40,000 flavors of confusions" is FACT!

I wonder how many of the 40,000 agree with you --- even on this blog??