Works of the Law

[Nedsk]

Ok. What will be your next act?

I won't know until the next moment happens but it doesn't change what Scripture teaches. The people in Matthews gospel didn't seem to know either but some did. You don't even think about what your next act will because you presume salvation is your based soley on your faith. (Sola fide) Unbiblical

 

[Mem]

I won't know until the next moment happens but it doesn't change what Scripture teaches. The people in Matthews gospel didn't seem to know either but some did. You don't even think about what your next act will because you presume salvation is your based soley on your faith. (Sola fide) Unbiblical

Throwing shade then, but that's an old trick, isn't it? You should try out something new.

 

[Nedsk]

Throwing shade then, but that's an old trick, isn't it? You should try out something new.

Where am I "throwing shade"? I gave you just some if the messages that support my claim but you ignore them. Show me where Scripture says we are saved by "faith alone"

 

[Mem]

Where am I "throwing shade"? I gave you just some if the messages that support my claim but you ignore them. Show me where Scripture says we are saved by "faith alone"

You discredit me, and I'm supposed to suppose that your request is sincere? No thank you. I don't have the time for games that bore me. Maybe someone else will entertain you.

 

[Nedsk]

You discredit me, and I'm supposed to suppose that your request is sincere? No thank you. I don't have the time for games that bore me. Maybe someone else will entertain you.

I challenged your understanding I didn't discredit you. I showed you just two examples where faith alone is meaningless but instead of supporting your position you focus on me. It's the same thing every time with you people. You REALLY hate people questioning you.

 

[Mem]

I challenged your understanding I didn't discredit you. I showed you just two examples where faith alone is meaningless but instead of supporting your position you focus on me. It's the same thing every time with you people. You REALLY hate people questioning you.

Do you know what 'throwing shade' means?

 

[Nedsk]

Do you know what 'throwing shade' means?

Yeah it's a meaningless term used by people who don't lke to be challenged. It's unbiblical to presume you're saved simply because you have faith. Instead of citing scripture to support your belief you've decided to focus on me "throwing shade".

 

[Mem]

Yeah it's a meaningless term used by people who don't lke to be challenged. It's unbiblical to presume you're saved simply because you have faith. Instead of citing scripture to support your belief you've decided to focus on me "throwing shade".

Throwing shade means taking the shadow of something and throwing it out as if it is the reality. The way you see me is not the my reality. If you insist on conversing with my shadow, I'll continue to look at our conversation as ridiculous and not worthy of effort.

 

[Nedsk]

Throwing shade means taking the shadow of something and throwing it out as if it is the reality. The way you see me is not the my reality. If you insist on conversing with my shadow, I'll continue to look at our conversation as ridiculous and not worthy of effort.

I don't see you in any way but I do see your belief as unbiblical. I cited Scripture for my view but all that's happened is I've become the topic of discussion

 

[vassal]

Faith inspires works but the 'cause' of works may vary. Who can tell if you pray in order that men see you praying.

God certainly Knows

 

[Inquisitor]

I don't see you in any way but I do see your belief as unbiblical. I cited Scripture for my view but all that's happened is I've become the topic of discussion

Hello Nedsk.

Is the following verse a true statement?

Romans 10:13
For whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

 

[Nedsk]

I don't see you in any way but I do see your belief as unbiblical. I cited Scripture for my view but all that's happened is I've become the topic of discussion

And ive cited scripture for my views. Now what Ive been waiting for for years now is one of you folks to show evidence that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. People don't seem to grasp that I've ridden this bull in this rodeo a million times and I'm STILL waiting.

Hello Nedsk.

Is the following verse a true statement?

Romans 10:13
For whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Of course is it. is Matt 7:21 true?

The presumptuousness of some people is unsightly.

How about 2 Corinthians 5:10? That couldn't possibly be true could it?

 

[James456]

I can interpret this passage that many do not undertand, but only by filtering it through Jesus’ own words since paul was a follower of Christ.. Where it agrees with Him, it stands. Where it goes beyond Him, it must be corrected by Him.
Jesus never taught that obeying God’s commandments puts a person under a curse. He taught the opposite. He said, “Blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it” (Luke 11:28, NKJV). A curse does not come from obedience. A curse comes from disobedience and hypocrisy.

When Jesus spoke about people being judged by the law, He did not say the problem was keeping commandments. He said the problem was claiming righteousness while not obeying from the heart. He warned, “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father” (Matthew 7:21, NKJV). This shows that hearing without doing brings judgment, not blessing.

Jesus also explained what happens when people rely on outward rule-keeping instead of mercy and faithfulness. Speaking of the Pharisees, He said, “They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders”(Matthew 23:4, NKJV). These burdens were not God’s commandments. They were human systems of righteousness. That is where the curse truly lies.

When it comes to justification, Jesus never said a person is justified by law-keeping alone. He taught repentance, faith, and obedience together. He said, “Unless you repent you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, NKJV), and also, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, NKJV). For Jesus, faith and obedience were never enemies. They walk together.

Jesus showed what “living by faith” truly means. Faith is not refusing obedience. Faith is trusting God enough to obey Him. That is why Jesus said, “Whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man” (Matthew 7:24, NKJV). Faith that does not act is not faith as Jesus defined it.

So, when the text speaks of “works of the law” bringing a curse, Jesus’ teaching helps us understand it correctly. The curse is not on obedience. The curse is on trying to claim life through rule-keeping, identity, or religious performance while the heart remains unchanged. This is exactly what Jesus rebuked again and again.
According to Jesus:
The law is not the enemy.
Obedience is not a curse.
Faith is not disobedience.

The curse comes when people replace repentance, mercy, and love with empty religion. Jesus did not free people from obedience. He freed them from false righteousness and taught them how to obey God with a living, trusting heart.

The curse of Gal3:10&11 comes if you seek righteousness of obeying the law, for you would then have to faultlessly obey the law to be righteous, something that is out of mans reach. And that is the same reason Paul states in Rom4:14 law brings wrath. As James states:
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James2:10

 

[Inquisitor]

From there, they conclude that the Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses were one single thing and were all removed. This first assumption is where the confusion begins, and if it is not corrected, everything that follows will be misunderstood

When I see the phrase "the law" in the scripture I always think of the Mosaic law.

I also understand that the Mosaic covenant was between The Lord and Israel.

Although, it can mean the entire Torah.

Using the agreed upon definition.

Law: the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions
of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

So "the law" has the definite article which means the "law" is specific.

Therefore, the law handed down at Mt Sinai was specifically for the Jews.

Exodus 24:7-8
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said,
“All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” Moses took the blood and
sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has
made with you in accordance with all these words.”

This law also had the enforcement of those rules through penalties.

To dislocate the so called ten commandments from the law itself, would render the phrase "the law"
meaningless.

Here is an example.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Obviously, the phrase "the Law" is referring to the entire law given to the Jews in a covenant at Mt Sinai.

I believe your constant alteration to the meaning of the phrase "the law" in the New Testament is incorrect.

 

[Inquisitor]

And ive cited scripture for my views. Now what Ive been waiting for for years now is one of you folks to show evidence that your understanding of Scripture is authoritative. People don't seem to grasp that I've ridden this bull in this rodeo a million times and I'm STILL waiting.


Of course is it. is Matt 7:21 true?

The presumptuousness of some people is unsightly.

How about 2 Corinthians 5:10? That couldn't possibly be true could it?

I have been deeply shocked and hurt by assumptions concerning their interpretation.

If we jump before the starter's pistol then we are disqualified.

We need to establish in the first instance the true cause of our salvation.

Are we saved at the primary level by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Before there is any discussion on the "will of God", works, legal works, fruit, etc.

It is necessary to establish the first cause; the basis of our salvation.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The curse of Gal3:10&11 comes if you seek righteousness of obeying the law, for you would then have to faultlessly obey the law to be righteous, something that is out of mans reach. And that is the same reason Paul states in Rom4:14 law brings wrath. As James states:
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. James2:10

This was likely already posted, but it was on my mind having read it earlier. It goes with your point, also found in Galatians 3.

21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Many people hear the phrase “works of the law” and immediately think that all law is abolished, that the law is only Jewish, or that keeping God’s commandments means becoming a Judaizer. From there, they conclude that the Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses were one single thing and were all removed. This first assumption is where the confusion begins, and if it is not corrected, everything that follows will be misunderstood
.
In Scripture, the word “law” does not always mean the same thing. God gave the Ten Commandments also called moral commandments that show His will and His character, such as loving God, loving others, honoring parents, not murdering, not stealing, not lying... These commandments define sin and righteousness. God also gave Israel covenant signs and ritual laws, such as circumcision, sacrifices, food laws, and temple rules. These marked Israel as a nation and pointed forward to deeper spiritual truths. Mixing these together and treating them as one single system leads people to think that obedience itself is the problem. Jesus never taught that.

Jesus did not speak against God’s commandments. He spoke against trusting in outward religious acts while the heart remains unchanged. When a man asked Jesus how to gain eternal life, Jesus answered plainly, “If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments” (Matthew 19:17, NKJV). Jesus then quoted commandments from the Ten Commandments. He did not say they were abolished. He treated them as the standard of life.

The phrase “works of the law” describes attempts to be counted righteous through outward acts, identity markers, and rule-keeping without repentance, mercy, or obedience of the heart. This is exactly what the Pharisees practiced, and Jesus rebuked them severely for it. They were experts in religious rules, but strangers to mercy and truth.

Jesus exposed their false works many times. He said, “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith” (Matthew 23:23, NKJV). They were careful with small religious details but ignored love, compassion, and faithfulness. This is a clear picture of “works of the law.”
J
esus also rebuked them for using the law to avoid helping others. He said they found ways to excuse themselves from caring for their parents while claiming to honor God with religious vows. He told them, “Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition” (Matthew 15:6, NKJV). Their works looked holy, but they canceled God’s will.
They fasted, prayed, and gave alms to be seen by others. Jesus warned against this kind of religion. He said, “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them” (Matthew 6:1, NKJV). He taught that public religion without humility has no reward from God. These were works done for pride, not for love.
They also trusted in their religious status. Jesus spoke of a Pharisee who prayed by listing his religious acts and thanking God that he was better than others. Jesus showed that this man was not justified, while the humble sinner who cried for mercy was accepted by God (Luke 18:9–14, NKJV). Again, this shows the problem was not obedience, but self-righteous works.

Jesus made it clear that true obedience comes from the heart. In the Sermon on the Mount, He showed that anger breaks the command against murder, lust breaks the command against adultery, and careless words break the command against truth. He did not lower the law. He revealed its true meaning. He also said plainly, “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17, NKJV). He then warned against setting aside God’s commandments or teaching others to do so.

Jesus also taught what true works look like when the heart has been changed. These are not works done to earn life. They are works that flow naturally from love, mercy, and obedience. Jesus described them clearly when He spoke about the final judgment. He said, “For I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me” (Matthew 25:35–36, NKJV). These people were not trying to prove themselves. They were simply living out love, and Jesus said that what they did to the least, they did to Him.

Jesus also said, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46, NKJV). He compared the obedient person to a wise man who built his house on rock. Hearing without doing was not enough. True faith listens and acts.
He taught generosity, care for the poor, and quiet mercy. He said, “Give to him who asks you” (Matthew 5:42, NKJV), and “Sell what you have and give alms” (Luke 12:33, NKJV). He also taught that these acts should be done in secret, from a sincere heart, not for praise.

In simple words, false works try to earn righteousness. True works reveal righteousness. “Works of the law” are actions done to claim status, identity, or salvation without a changed heart. Jesus rejected that path completely. He called people to repent, to believe, and to follow Him.

When the heart is changed, obedience follows. Feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, visiting prisoners, forgiving others, and living truthfully are not replacements for faith. They are the fruit of faith.

Jesus summed it up clearly when He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15, NKJV). Love comes first, but love is proven by obedience. Jesus did not remove God’s commandments. He restored their true meaning and showed that real faith is alive, active, and full of mercy.

“Jesus summed it up clearly when He said, “If you love Me, keep My commandments”

Right his ( Jesus ) commands not Moses precepts and judgements and not what was given from Sinai to israel. They already broke that covenant they had with God.

have to go to the gospel to hear Gods word now ….. moses had already said that though in the law as well as all the prophets

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.


Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


They aren’t calling anyone to obey Moses or the old covenant they are calling people to obey Christ and the gospel . To obey Jesus and his word in the gospel is where the life is his word in the gospel is going to judge humanity

 

[vassal]

Throwing shade then, but that's an old trick, isn't it? You should try out something new.

so you know the old tricks?

 

[vassal]

When I see the phrase "the law" in the scripture I always think of the Mosaic law.

I also understand that the Mosaic covenant was between The Lord and Israel.

Although, it can mean the entire Torah.

Using the agreed upon definition.

Law: the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions
of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.

So "the law" has the definite article which means the "law" is specific.

Therefore, the law handed down at Mt Sinai was specifically for the Jews.

Exodus 24:7-8
Then he took the book of the covenant and read it in the hearing of the people; and they said,
“All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient!” Moses took the blood and
sprinkled it on the people, and said, “Behold the blood of the covenant, which the Lord has
made with you in accordance with all these words.”

This law also had the enforcement of those rules through penalties.

To dislocate the so called ten commandments from the law itself, would render the phrase "the law"
meaningless.

Here is an example.

Matthew 5:17
Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

Obviously, the phrase "the Law" is referring to the entire law given to the Jews in a covenant at Mt Sinai.

I believe your constant alteration to the meaning of the phrase "the law" in the New Testament is incorrect.

inquisitor, you are using your own definition not the Lords, different laws different purpose, the ten commandments GOD named it himself the Covenant and it belongs in the ark of the covenant, we have discussed this before at length. The rest of the law of Moses flows from the ten commandments but served a purpose for the israelites of that time, today most of it cannot be followed, this is what Paul was referring to in all his epistles it was never about the ten commandments ( the Covenant) I have texts that explain this in more detail if you need. Know that some of these Mosaic laws will be reinstated in the millennium Kingdom on Christ returns, the prophets of the O.T speak of this but now for gentiles it is the ten Commandments that constiture the New covenant, not written on stone bur written in out hearts and minds.

 

[Mem]

so you know the old tricks?

Are you pretending to be innocent?