Loss of salvation???

[mailmandan]

HELLO, HELLO!!!

Those vesers have nothing to do with being filled!!

You are faling at your demonstartion.

This will never end, you go and have a good day.

Meaning any further replies as well.

So, being filled with the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with being filled with the Holy Spirit? It's not me who is failing.

 

[James456]

How can a preson enter a new covenant without being saved?

I thought the anwer is clear, NO THEY CAN'T.

Well I can assure you, God had placed his laws in my heart and mind long before I got baptised in water and spoke in tongues, so I also had a saviour from sin. So I had entered covenant.

 

[GWH]

Yes, and we could include water baptism as a sacrament, Sabbath law as necessary and TULIP as true in the mix of problematic beliefs.
I suspect that those who focus on miracles are not satisfied with walking by faith (2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 8:22-25).
I know that when I was an impressionable teenager their claims of proof caused me to doubt my faith.
By reading GW I learned that WB and SL are optional, MFW is true, Spirit baptism is manifested by love,
and the only two miracles requiring belief for salvation are creation and resurrection.

WB as salvific, SIT as given to all, SL as necessary and TULIP as true are problematic/wrong beliefs.
GW teaches that WB and SL are optional, SB is manifested by love, SIT is given to some, and MFW is true.

 

[Ouch]

I wonder, if Peter didn't revise his views of Acts2:38 after encountering Cornelius and his household. It shows, that verse is not to be set in stone.

Was it Peter or JESUS speaking throuth Peter in Acts 2:38?

How did Peter know the Gentiles were going to be grafted in?

If JESUS didn't fill them with the Holy Ghost before baptism Peter may never have baptized them.

If you think GODS word is not set in stone we are all in a bad way and it would be GOD'S fought!

Do you think GOD is setting us up for failure?

 

[Wansvic]

Except it says WHEN, not since which is what most translations say and they had to be told about Jesus. So, they had no Gospel which is the power of God unto salvation.
...

Whether the word "Since" or "When" is used does not change what Paul's question conveys. And that is, receiving the Holy Ghost does not occur simultaneous with belief; they are two distinct, separate events.

Paul's question also reveals a person can know without a doubt when the experience has occurred.

As to your other comments, I do plan to address them in a separate post.

 

[James456]

Was it Peter or JESUS speaking throuth Peter in Acts 2:38?

How did Peter know the Gentiles were going to be grafted in?

If JESUS didn't fill them with the Holy Ghost before baptism Peter may never have baptized them.

If you think GODS word is not set in stone we are all in a bad way and it would be GOD'S fought!

Do you think GOD is setting us up for failure?

Well how can you set it in stone, when Acts 10 does not follow that statement?
And I spoke in tongues before I got baptised in water also, and it was confirmed.
God does not have to follow a set rule book here, he can do what he wants as he wants for He is God Almighty
What matters to God is the heart, not a formula people may wish to follow:

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Romans10:10

 

[Ouch]

Well how can you set it in stone, when Acts 10 does not follow that statement?
And I spoke in tongues before I got baptised in water also, and it was confirmed.
God does not have to follow a set rule book here, he can do what he wants as he wants for He is God Almighty
What matters to God is the heart, not a formula people may wish to follow:

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. Romans10:10

What is set in stone is how to be saved.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins.
4. JESUS fills us with HIS spirit.

What is not set in stone is what JESUS does HE will do as he wishes as we are all different.

As we can tell, JESUS may fills us before we are baptized or after.

 

[James456]

What is set in stone is how to be saved.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins.
4. JESUS fills us with HIS spirit.

What is not set in stone is what JESUS does HE will do as he wishes as we are all different.

As we can tell, JESUS may fills us before we are baptized or after.

So your three and four are not set in stone are they!
And there is a difference between receiving the Spirit and being filled with the Spirit, as I can personally testify to.
Don't just read the letter of scripture and seek to rigidly and inflexibly follow that letter, allow for God to be God, and to have compassion on people as he chooses.
Before you come back at me, I will add, the pharisees of Jesus day knew the literal letter inside and out, but they did not understand the message did they contained in the letter

 

[Just_A__Follower]

This is the way it works. They seize on certain scriptures and apply them rigidly and literalistically. Everything is about the letter of these certain scriptures. Pretty much all pentecostal denominations are the same. But oneness takes it a step further, you must speak in tongues to be saved, or evidence you are saved. And, a very high standard of obedience is stressed. Everything revolves around the baptism in the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues.
But there's a problem. Maybe its because of the zeal they have for what they centre around, that other things cannot be seen
I myself believe in what they term the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and I believe the Spirit leads us into truth. So it surprising to me, that many who stress tongues and the baptism so much, do not understand much about the gospel message those do who don't think like them do.
I asked two of them in this thread what is the new covenant, neither of them could tell me. I would be surprised if either of them knew the bible says the ten commandments are the letter that kills the ministry of death and condemnation. And I've never met any pentecostal who understood Paul's message of grace, neither have I heard it preached in any pentecostal church I've ever been in. In fact, when I was at a pentecostal church when I was young, I did not understand the message of justification/sanctification. I just grew up believing if I did not perform nigh on perfect I would be cast into hell. Of course, it would be unfair to tar every church the same, but by and large they would be
Charles Spurgeon probably did not believe as they do, but personally speaking, I've never read of anyone who so well expounds on Paul's message. He was known as the prince of preachers, but according to oneness he could never have been saved.
Zeal is good, but not if it blinds you to properly understanding the whole message. And salvific belief is very clearly spelt out in the bible, it is not only hinted at. Hence they are wrong

I guess we all see scripture differently. Some apparently see it as a rule book. I see it more as a love letter from creator to creation, from Father to child, from the King to His people. God is Love. Love is His essence. Light, Spirit, Consuming Fire, King, Truth, Life, Father, Judge, and Rock are expressions of His essence.

 

[James456]

I guess we all see scripture differently. Some apparently see it as a rule book. I see it more as a love letter from creator to creation, from Father to child, from the King to His people. God is Love. Love is His essence. Light, Spirit, Consuming Fire, King, Truth, Life, Father, Judge, and Rock are expressions of His essence.

Seeing it as a ''rulebook'' per sae leads to error. Isn't that how the Pharisees of Jesus day saw the scriptures? They inflexibly quoted them and insisted the people fully follow the rulebook, they then ignored the love of God in the process(Luke11:42) And showed no love to their neighbour by insisting they fully followed the rulebook whilst not doing so themselves.(Matt23:2&3)

 

[GWH]

Was it Peter or JESUS speaking throuth Peter in Acts 2:38?

How did Peter know the Gentiles were going to be grafted in?

If JESUS didn't fill them with the Holy Ghost before baptism Peter may never have baptized them.

If you think GODS word is not set in stone we are all in a bad way and it would be GOD'S fought!

Do you think GOD is setting us up for failure?

Peter had works-oriented tendencies until corrected by Paul in Acts 15, which Paul recounted in Gal. 2:1-5,
and during a visit by Peter to Antioch, when Paul again reproved him for fearing the circumcision group and
failing to teach justification by faith in Christ rather than by observing the law (Gal. 2:11-21).
Evidence that Peter amended his mistakes is found in 1Pet. 1:3-9 & 18-23, where he says we are saved by faith
in Christ and the Word of God without mentioning baptism until 1Pet. 3:21, where he says water symbolizes baptism
that saves--the death and resurrection of Jesus (cf. Luke 12:50, Col. 2:12-14).

 

[mailmandan]

What is set in stone is how to be saved.

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins.
4. JESUS fills us with HIS spirit.

So, what is the content of "believe" here according to you? The Bible says believe and be saved. (Luke 8:12; John 3:15-18; Acts 16:31; Romans 1:16; 4:5-6; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21 etc..).

According to your formula, those who believe are still lost until they repent, get water baptized in Jesus' name, and get filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues. For starters, you error by placing repent after believe.

Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - And saying: The time is accomplished, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

Baptism in Jesus' name is not a rigid, salvation formula but a reference to authority. (Matthew 28:18-19)

Must baptism be “in Jesus’ name”? - CARM https://share.google/ivH0A5GGYxqyBfAuN

Also, your pet verse (Acts 2:38) needs to be read alongside of these verses (Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) in which forgiveness is explicitly tied to repentance/belief/faith and not baptism.

So, the only conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit. (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 13:38-39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18) *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Genez]

resurrection

The action or fact of restoring a dead person to life, or of being restored to life.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Since we are born in sins, you are dead in sin.

Have you been resurrected?

Restoring a dead person to life is not resurrection.
That is resuscitation only.

Resurrection is when we will receive our new body.
A body unlike the troublemaker we were born in to.

Our resurrection body will be just like His glorious heavenly body!

But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord ​

Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, ​

will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body." Philippians 3:20-21​

​

​

grace and peace ............​

 

[Genez]

When JESUS fills us you will speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Yes! Paul spoke in tongues.

For it was the time when the Bible was just beginning to be written.
And, the temporary gifts God used to take up the void until it was completed.

The occult has those who speak in tongues.
And, they love it.
They love it so much, they apathetically do not care if they are going to Hell.

It is addictive.
For it gives one a false sense of confidence.
Even witches can have a very high level of confidence....

........

 

[Genez]

3. Get baptized in JESUS name for remission of sins.

Learn sound doctrine (1 John 1:9) to know how to keep having your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus!

To think "water" is for us now so silly.
As if sin were simply some physical dirt to be washed off.

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, ​

and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin. 1 John 1:7​

​

It is not wise to think it is the symbolic water, when we now have the real Blood of Jesus!

If we confess (acknowledge to God) our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us ​

our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. " 1 John 1:9​

​

Water?????

The BLOOD OF JESUS purifies!
Not water!


Get Truth.....
Find grace first!

 

[HigherGospel]

To think "water" is for us now so silly.

Jesus said we must be baptized, was He being "silly"?

Yes, the Blood of Jesus washes away sin but do you not know what water washes according to scripture???

 

[Genez]

Since we are born in sins, you are dead in sin.

When Adam ate the forbidden fruit, he was supposed to die...

Yet he ran and hid and put on fig leaves.....

Did he die?

 

[Genez]

Jesus said we must be baptized, was He being "silly"?

Yes, the Blood of Jesus washes away sin but do you not know what water washes according to scripture???

The water of the Word washes us!
(When it is understood!)

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her ​

to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present ​

her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy ​

and blameless.​

​

Ephesians 5:25-27​

 

[sawdust]

Whether the word "Since" or "When" is used does not change what Paul's question conveys. And that is, receiving the Holy Ghost does not occur simultaneous with belief; they are two distinct, separate events.

Paul's question also reveals a person can know without a doubt when the experience has occurred.

As to your other comments, I do plan to address them in a separate post.

Obviously the filling is not going to occur before believing and of course they are two separate events. Doh!

Paul's question reveals he expects the baptism of the Spirit to occur upon believing not upon some later event which the scriptures never so much as allude to let alone define.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said we must be baptized, was He being "silly"?

Is it the lack of belief that causes condemnation or the lack of baptism? (Mark 16:16(b); John 3:18)

Yes, the Blood of Jesus washes away sin but do you not know what water washes according to scripture???

Water washes away sins literally or figuratively?