J
James456
Guest
When Paul uses the word a slave to sin and John uses the words practising sin they are NOT referring to the state you were born into, but living a lifestyle of sin, ie, drunkeness, adultery, stealing etc
Loss of salvation???
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YOU ARE SO FULL OF ADVICE!!! Thank you I am.
You think when we get filled with the Holy Ghost our sins are removed.
You think we can't do nothing to get rid of our sins.
NEITHER IS TRUE!!!
AND when you are shown in HIS word you are wrong you don't REPENT.
Revelation 21:8-10
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Maybe instead of you pointing your fingers at me TELLING ME WHAT I SHOULD DO.
Matthew 7:3-5
King James Version
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
I now we are not brothers and could be if you obey.
Maybe you should look at your self.
It's not too late to admit your foughts and REPENT.
AMEN, as you said you got water baptized.
JESUS fills some first, HE knew you were going to obey HIS WORD.
GOD IS GOOD.
Thank you, and in 1 john tell us how to get rid of them after we have been reborn.
1 John 1:8-10
King James Version
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
J
James456
Guest
Hence, when we also include 1John3:9 we understand the bible speaks of sin in two different ways
This is no laughing matter, and I said receiving the Holy Spirit after having hands laid on you is an exception and not the rule in every case of conversion. People can be filled with the Holy Spirit yet not speak in tongues.
Acts 4:8 - Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” *Peter spoke boldly after being filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
Acts 4:31 - And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. *That was my personal experience with being filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues. *Not everyone speaks in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:29-31)
Acts 7:54 - When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. *Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
Acts 13:9 - Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.” And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. *Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
What's sad is you don't listen and you distort the gospel and it's no laughing matter.
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
To lay hands on these Samaritan converts. Receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles laid their hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit which was an exception and not the rule. The Jews were hostile towards the Samaritans and the laying on of hands by the apostles would authenticate God's purpose and confirm their inclusion into the church while bringing church unity.
They called for Peter in Acts 11:13 - And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”
In regard to Acts 10, these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12) and were clearly saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) Speaking in tongues was a sign for the Jews that these Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and confirmed they were accepted by God and equal members of the church along with Jewish believers. The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, magnified God, and were saved and a part of the body of Christ before they were water baptized. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE.
Paul was questioning them in order to obtain their status. Paul does not infallibly know their hearts, hence the question.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. That is crystal clear.
Jesus and not the Holy Spirit?
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.
Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 3:5; 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
Yes, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. (Acts 16:31)
I won't need 20 verses to prove my point.
Luke 8:12 - Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures..
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Are you ready to BELIEVE?
Camron that argument does not work, and it mixes two very different kinds of language.
Psalm 50 is poetry. Revelation 20 is prophecy. Treating them the same way is the mistake.
In Psalm 50:10, God is speaking poetically to make a simple point:
Everything belongs to Him.
“a thousand hills” is a common Hebrew way of saying “all of them.” It is not a time period, not a prophecy, and not a limit.
But in Revelation 20, the thousand years are repeated again and again, clearly and deliberately:
Satan is bound a thousand years
The saints reign with Christ a thousand years
The rest of the dead do not live again until the thousand years are finished
That repetition matters. This is not a poetic phrase dropped once. It is a measured, ordered period in a vision of events.The saints reign with Christ a thousand years
The rest of the dead do not live again until the thousand years are finished
Also notice something important. When the Bible uses “thousand” symbolically, it usually does not anchor it to a sequence of actions. In Revelation 20, the thousand years have a beginning, activities during it, and an ending. That is not how poetic exaggeration works.
Jesus Himself spoke of future times and ages and used numbers plainly when teaching about the Kingdom. He never said God’s reign would have no order or no stages.
So the comparison fails for one simple reason:
Psalm 50 uses poetry to express ownership.
Revelation 20 uses prophetic time to describe a reign.
Using one to cancel the other is not careful reading. It is word-play, not Scripture.
Are you missing the water part? John 4:10 - Jesus answered and said to her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, ‘Give Me a drink,’ you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.”
John 4:14 - but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.”
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
J
James456
Guest
A man is powerfully convicted of his sin by the Holy Spirit. He sinks to his knees, tears streaming down his cheeks and cries out to God for forgiveness of his sin. He asks Christ into his life as his saviour.
How will God respond?
Will He say to the man: ''I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you've been baptised in water''
Doesn't sound right to me
How will God respond?
Will He say to the man: ''I will forgive you, but not yet, only once you've been baptised in water''
Doesn't sound right to me
This is no laughing matter, and I said receiving the Holy Spirit after having hands laid on you is an exception and not the rule in every case of conversion. People can be filled with the Holy Spirit yet not speak in tongues.
Acts 4:8 - Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, “Rulers of the people and elders, if we are being examined today concerning a good deed done to a crippled man, by what means this man has been healed, 10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by him this man is standing before you well. 11 This Jesus is the stone that was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the cornerstone. 12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” *Peter spoke boldly after being filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
Acts 4:31 - And when they had prayed, the place in which they were gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak the word of God with boldness. *That was my personal experience with being filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues. *Not everyone speaks in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:29-31)
Acts 7:54 - When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. 55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!” 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; 58 and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. *Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
Acts 13:9 - Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him 10 and said, “O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? 11 And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time.” And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. *Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit, yet no tongues.
What's sad is you don't listen and you distort the gospel and it's no laughing matter.
John 7:37 - On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.” 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
To lay hands on these Samaritan converts. Receiving the indwelling Holy Spirit was delayed until the apostles laid their hands on them to receive the Holy Spirit which was an exception and not the rule. The Jews were hostile towards the Samaritans and the laying on of hands by the apostles would authenticate God's purpose and confirm their inclusion into the church while bringing church unity.
They called for Peter in Acts 11:13 - And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, ‘Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.’ 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ 17 If therefore God gave them the same gift (Holy Spirit) as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?” 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance unto life.”
In regard to Acts 10, these Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues, which is a spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12) and were clearly saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) Speaking in tongues was a sign for the Jews that these Gentiles had received the gift of the Holy Spirit and confirmed they were accepted by God and equal members of the church along with Jewish believers. The evidence is overwhelming that these Gentles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues, magnified God, and were saved and a part of the body of Christ before they were water baptized. Certain Jews may have wanted to forbid them from being baptized because of their unacceptance of the Gentiles, but Peter clearly states that SURELY NO ONE CAN REFUSE.
Paul was questioning them in order to obtain their status. Paul does not infallibly know their hearts, hence the question.
Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. That is crystal clear.
Jesus and not the Holy Spirit?
1 Peter 1:23 - having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
Ephesians 5:26 - that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word.
Water is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 3:5; 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, and we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the washing of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)
Yes, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. (Acts 16:31)
I won't need 20 verses to prove my point.
Luke 8:12 - Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Acts 13:38 - Therefore, let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins; 39 and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 16:30 - And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” 31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
1 Corinthians 15:1 - Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures..
Romans 1:16 - For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Are you ready to BELIEVE?
Peter was filled with the Holy Ghost in Acts 2, so when speaking in Acts 4:8 it just says that Peter WAS FILLED meaning he was filled.
Acts 4:31 they were filled, yep I don't see the words spoke in tongues.
Acts 7:54 But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Spirit
He was ALREADY filled and was speaking it does not say he or anyone was filled in that verse.
Same thing with 13:9!!
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO DO???
I have been filled, I'M TALKING to you do you hear any tongues????
LOL, I asked you, "So tell me why did JESUS tell HIS disciples to wait if they received the Holy Ghost when they belived?"
And you share John 7 DOES THAT ANSWER THE QUESTION????
Yep, Acts 8 to lay hands on them.
My question for Acts 10 was, "Why in Acts 10 din't they receive it before they called for Peter?"
You claim you get the Holy Ghost when you belive TELL ME WHY THEY HAD TO SEND FOR PETER?
You claim you get the Holy Ghost when you belive
Acts 19, WHY DID PAUL HAVE TO ASK THEM THAT BELEIVED???
ACCORDING TO YOU THEY GOT IT ALLREADY.
Eph, if you trusted HIM you would OBEY HIM.
How many of those verse say ARE SAVED?
1 COR? that was to the church who have been saved.
So much for keeping it simple.
J
James456
Guest
As I told you, I got saved young, there was no outward emotion that I remember. But something profound did happen. I suddenly became conscious of my sin before God, it was immense. It was a cut off in my life, never again would I be able to do things I had done before I got saved, without a conscience at doing so. In my most inward parts, in my heart and mind I instinctively knew what sin was as I had never previously known. Why did this happen? Because God had placed His laws in my heart and mind, and:
''Through the law we become conscious of sin''
And people that has happened to have a saviour from sin/their sins and lawless deeds I will remember no more
So, I was in covenant with God, according to its core terms.
My question is this. Can someone enter the new covenant in an unsaved state?
How to be saved, Repent, get bapitzed in JESUS name to remove our sins and JESUS fills us with HIS spirit.
Acts 2:38, John 3:5
We only have one set of rules.
Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4:8 but he did not speak in tongues in Acts 4:8.
Exactly.
Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit (or filled) yet no tongues.
Same thing indeed. Filled with the Holy Spirit yet no tongues.
Demonstrate to you that not every instance in scripture where someone was filled with the Holy Spirit means they spoke in tongues.
I have been filled which caused me to speak the word of God with boldness, but I did not speak in tongues and not everyone speaks in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:27-31)
So, John 7:37-39 went over your head?
What answer are you looking for? Instead of playing 20 questions, why don't you just make your point so we can test it against scripture.
Do you understand why hands were laid on them?
I already explained this and I also covered Acts 11. Do you not hear a word I say?
I already explained this as well. Do you have a comprehension problem?
If we trust in HIM for salvation and are saved, then obedience will follow. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
So, those verses mean NOT saved?
Are you for real? How did they become saved?
It is simple, but you make it hard.
J
James456
Guest
You did not answer my question
Can someone enter the new covenant in an unsaved state?
You have to read the totality of scripture on a subject, not just certain passages that appeal
Amen and well said!
We must properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine and not simply build doctrine on a handful of pet verses.
Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit in Acts 4:8 but he did not speak in tongues in Acts 4:8.
Exactly.
Stephen was full of the Holy Spirit (or filled) yet no tongues.
Same thing indeed. Filled with the Holy Spirit yet no tongues.
Demonstrate to you that not every instance in scripture where someone was filled with the Holy Spirit means they spoke in tongues.
I have been filled which caused me to speak the word of God with boldness, but I did not speak in tongues and not everyone speaks in tongues. (1 Corinthians 12:27-31)
So, John 7:37-39 went over your head?
What answer are you looking for? Instead of playing 20 questions, why don't you just make your point so we can test it against scripture.
Do you understand why hands were laid on them?
I already explained this and I also covered Acts 11. Do you not hear a word I say?
I already explained this as well. Do you have a comprehension problem?
If we trust in HIM for salvation and are saved, then obedience will follow. (Ephesians 2:5-10)
So, those verses mean NOT saved?
How did they become saved?
It is simple, but you make it hard.
HELLO, HELLO!!!
Those vesers have nothing to do with being filled!!
You are faling at your demonstartion.
This will never end, you go and have a good day.
Meaning any further replies as well.
How can a preson enter a new covenant without being saved?
I thought the anwer is clear, NO THEY CAN'T.
J
James456
Guest
I wonder, if Peter didn't revise his views of Acts2:38 after encountering Cornelius and his household. It shows, that verse is not to be set in stone.