There can't be a REASON...
why confuse things??
We just need to DO IT.
We need to ACT on the words of Jesus.
HE said it,,,NOT me.
Loss of salvation???
- Thread starter gratefuloneson
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why confuse things??
We just need to DO IT.
We need to ACT on the words of Jesus.
HE said it,,,NOT me.
It is possible to grieve the Spirit and to quench the Spirit. It is not possible to be unborn again. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30) The Amplified explains "sealed" as "branded as God's own." God will not reject his own. If anyone forsakes Christ completely, he did not belong to Christ in the first place.
I said quite a bit to "Toknow" (who does not want to know) on the difference between born again and salvation. You might want to read that.
This is where you are adding what's not there. This common practice of eisegesis among you Evangelicals is so pervasive and downright dishonest. That context clearly is set up in verse 1 onward, which is about the coming Kingdom of God; that which we call the Millennium. THAT is what we of Israel wanted and are still wanting although I will never be a part of it as a member of the body of Christ.
Manufacturing salvation into that context as if it somehow crosses over into that manufactured realm of loss for salvation, that's absolutely flawed at the most fundamental level. You Gentiles in the flesh think you know us of Israel and what we have always believed, and yet you know almost nothing. Anti-Semites among Evangelicals even yammer about how us Jews killed Jesus, and yet Jesus Himself said this:
Matthew 20:19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.
The Gentiles PERFORMED the torture and crucifixion.
So, what are some people falling away from? It's the FAITH.
Tell you what, please show to us where scripture at any point discusses the UNSEALING of Holy Spirit and how the Father could EVER forfeit His own Spirit. Can you do that? If not, then why continue shoving something into contexts that do not at all support your contention?
These theological inventions dredged up from the sewers of human imaginations of how YOU would like for it all to be, that's a false religion, purely and unashamedly. Nobody among you has yet defined that line for loss of salvation that you all have manufactured out from the filth of your own AI.
If you would, please, PLEASE define that line for us all, and do so on the basis of solid, Hermeneutical foundations. Not one verse any of you have yet produced says anything about salvation being retained on the basis of continued faith or any other effort of sheer will nor muscle.
Even YOU, your faith is like a roller coaster ride each day. We ALL are guilty of that, but we don't become "less saved" when our daily faith waxes and wanes. We are saved to the uttermost because of the absolute sufficiency in the Blood of Christ that you at the moment don't even believe dare we take seriously the things you've been saying.
Now, where's YOUR faith? It's obviously lacking to think that Father God forfeits His own Spirit...yet, Holy Spirit of the Trinity...forfeited by way of Him allegedly betraying His own promises. If God were as fickle as some of you people project through your false doctrines and false readings for what scripture actually says, NONE of us could EVER be secure in the knowledge of our salvation if the Lord ever took it back because of His being so unstable and untrustworthy.
MM
Folks, for those who think faith REATINS salvation, read this in its context:
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
It's not that hard to figure out. Our salvation is about HIS faithfulness, not ours.
People, if our salvation were based upon OUR faithfulness in faith and avoidance of sin, which NONE of us does, NONE of us would be saved right now.
You works-based salvationists, good luck with that because you're going to need more than just luck!
MM
2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
It's not that hard to figure out. Our salvation is about HIS faithfulness, not ours.
People, if our salvation were based upon OUR faithfulness in faith and avoidance of sin, which NONE of us does, NONE of us would be saved right now.
You works-based salvationists, good luck with that because you're going to need more than just luck!
MM
Quote me saying what you have falsely accused me of twice or acknowledge your error then I’ll go through John 3:13. I don’t base my beliefs solely off the book of Acts and I also follow the Teacher not the students. So I don’t see us agreeing on much.
Generally speaking:
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Scripture is so very clear, and yet we continue to hear seemingly "inventive" theologies that cannot be found anywhere in scripture, and yet based upon what some perceive as nuances and implications that support their wishful thinking...no. Just like the Lord, I too desire that ALL be saved, but some like to think the Lord is something other than He is, which is unfaithful.
Good luck with that because that false god doesn't exist.
MM
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Scripture is so very clear, and yet we continue to hear seemingly "inventive" theologies that cannot be found anywhere in scripture, and yet based upon what some perceive as nuances and implications that support their wishful thinking...no. Just like the Lord, I too desire that ALL be saved, but some like to think the Lord is something other than He is, which is unfaithful.
Good luck with that because that false god doesn't exist.
MM
Wow.....just wow. While it depends greatly on God's faithfulness (GRACE), Living the christian life has its place. What if, for instance if the apostles never wrote their epistles? Faithfulness on our part is absolutely necessary otherwise everybody who's heard the name of Jesus today would be saved today, & we know that's not true.
It depends on our faithfulnes, not our perfection, for even Paul said he didn't do so perfectly. But press on he did. God expects us to press on whether we are perfect or not.
God has great expectations because His Holy Spirit is in us That alone is a great reason to expect.
You seem calmer. That’s good. Still didn’t admit your error. That’s not good. I agree what matters is His word. But if we don’t agree on the nature of God then we are both looking at His word through different lenses. Therefore we will not see the same thing. You can’t come onto a forum where 98% of the people believe in a Triune God and expect others to be in agreement with you. You would have to open your mind and remove the lenses you currently have on first. You’re not gonna agree with me and I’m not gonna agree with you. As I’ve said before I grew up around many with your beliefs and also married a woman that grew up in those beliefs. I’ve looked through those lenses and what I saw didn’t make sense. Thru the lenses I currently have on, it makes sense. Maybe you should try these lenses for a while and see if it makes sense to you.
If I understand what you're saying, no. That's not what Paul said. He clearly stated that the faithfulness is completely the Lord's that counts in relation to our faith and resulting salvation through grace...unmerited favor. He who created us knows how our faith waxes and wanes from day to day, moment to moment, along with our faithfulness. It's all about Him and what He accomplished on that cross. All He requires of us is faith in His death, burial and resurrection. Those who want to add to that...they are on their own to think that it's at all based upon their performance.
Those people love to say, "Yes, we're saved by grace through faith...BUT YOU GOTTA LIVE IT!" How pathetic indeed, for the measure of sin that they still perpetrate on a daily basis would otherwise render their salvation null and void. They may as well join with Roman Catholicism and do the penances of the ancients, such as crawling around the perimeter of entire cities on their bare knees... et al. They have not one verse to which they can point that dictates the measure of works that could ever earn nor retain their salvation.
MM
I think when many hear the gospel they hear “so all I have to do is believe in God and live right”. Then they think to themselves “I can do this”. That thought is the first error. I did that when I first heard. Didn’t take me long to realize “I can’t do this”. I hadn’t fully surrendered. I was still relying on myself. I was relying on my works to keep me saved. Not only was I prideful thinking my works were in someway good, I was also selfish in only doing those works to maintain my salvation. When I came to the realization that “I can’t” and “I’m not good enough”, I realized I was a weak prideful man that didn’t deserve life itself more less the blessings He had given me in that life. It was time to fully surrender. Now I let His Spirit do the work. There’s no giving myself a attaboy or pat on the back anymore but rather a thank you Lord for working thru me. Thank you Lord for allowing me to experience Your Love. Now of course that pride pops its head back up sometimes and I attempt to take the reins and steer. But because of His love and His faithfulness, I always feel that tap on the shoulder and am reminded of how that worked out last time.
Is God the judge? Yes. But just as importantly He is our Father. I don’t put the judicial quality over the fatherly quality. That puts fear and obedience over love and belonging.
Faith is a gift and still volitional, how does that work.
Anyway, we know that even though you fail to mention it in your post, you assert that regeneration precedes faith.
This of course is not supported by scripture.
So you do know that I didn't tell you what I think right??
The only lense we have is ours and HIS word.
Since you refuse to answer any questions how are we to learn from each other?
What part of HIS word don't you like?
Is it just the book of Acts?
I only know what you’ve told me. That is that you believe in modalism. You believe works are necessary for salvation. You believe I am not saved because I haven’t spoken in tongues therefore having no evidence of the Holy Ghost. You believe that I believe in 3 gods simply because you refuse to accept the possibility of a triune God. You believe I don’t like the book of acts because I don’t interpret it the way you do.
Now based off all that I would guess Pentecostal Oneness but I could be wrong. Did I mention that my wife’s grandfather was a pastor which is why she grew up in those beliefs? Many of the stricter members of that belief would say she has rejected the true path to salvation therefore she is hell bound.
And as you stated you only have one lens so agreement isn’t gonna happen. Your mind is closed to all other possibilities.
So it's more than the book of Acts you don't agree with.
Best of luck.
Just remember when you stand in front of JESUS he will be juding you with HIS rule book, ALL OF IT.