Loss of salvation???
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No!
Jesus is the Messiah.
But Jesus is also GOD.
The Son.
The 2nd Person of the Trinity/Godhead.
I'm not asking you to address anything. You said you were not going to respond to me so I'm not sure what you are doing.
The Bible describes faith so I don't need your definition.
You are wrong about not needing hope and faith in the eternal state. Hope, in scripture, is not some form of wishful thinking but is confidence in God so that is never going to change. Faith, as I explained, is the word alive and working in our life so we will continue to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God eternally.
Faith, hope and love remain eternally.
I'm not asking you to address anything. You said you were not going to respond to me so I'm not sure what you are doing.
The Bible describes faith so I don't need your definition.
You are wrong about not needing hope and faith in the eternal state. Hope, in scripture, is not some form of wishful thinking but is confidence in God so that is never going to change. Faith, as I explained, is the word alive and working in our life so we will continue to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God eternally.
Faith, hope and love remain eternally.
Faith: Vines Greek dictionary.
1) a firm conviction.
2) a personal surrender to Him.
3) a life inspired by such surrender.
That's Biblical faith and faithing . Pistis and pisteuo. No mention of Faith being Gods word alive, although in a vague sense could partly be true.
You do not understand what it means to "fall away". It means in effect that the Christian's progress towards maturity comes to an end. The individual has eternal life because that is what eternal life means. Believers receive a new nature when they are born again. I have relatives who spat the dummy with a church they attended about 20 years ago. They've given up attending anywhere and they are no more mature now than they were 20 years ago. Unforgiveness keeps them far from God, but they have not lost their salvation.
As I've said many times, the word "salvation" is misleading. Jesus did not say that you must be saved in order to see the kingdom of God. He said that we must be born again. Those who are born again have a new nature that is born of God. And that is the eternal part of the believer.
The "salvation" of the believer refers to the salvation, better described as deliverance, of the soul. Everyone brings all kinds of bondages, confusion, misconceptions and attitude problems into the new life. This is what it means when we are required to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.
The salvation of the soul is referred to by Peter and by James. Peter calls it the goal of our faith. James explains that the word of God is the means God uses to deliver the soul of the believer.
The church suffers much loss because few preachers know or teach these principles. So Christians show up week after week, paying their dues, singing some songs, hearing (maybe) a shallow message and going home. Rinse and repeat.
The New Testament writers were exhorting believers not to be content with mere outward observance. Jesus wants disciples, not just converts.
No, a born again believer cannot be unborn again. God did it and that's irreversible. However, Christians can suffer great loss in this life by missing out on God's best. They will also miss out on the Kingdom rewards that God has in store for those who lose their lived, carrying the cross daily.
The deliverance of the soul is a lifelong process, usually littered with failure and tribulation. There comes a time for some when they quit trying to hold onto self and capitulate entirely to the will of God. The Christian life does not begin, in experience, until the individual is entirely consecrated to Jesus.
There is a great deal more to say about this subject. I hope this helps.
As I said intention matters. God not only looks at the action but the motive. If one is doing good works as to not lose their salvation, then it is not God they are doing the works for but it is themselves that they are working for. It would be out of selfishness. Through man’s eye the works appear to be good. Through God’s eyes(seeing the motive) the works are hollow no love behind them.
Analogy: one millionaire gives money to charity for a tax break. Externally it looks good but internally it’s selfish. Another millionaire gives money to charity for the love of God and his neighbor. Externally it is looks good and internally it is good.
We can just agree to disagree on the subject.
Right.
It's always up for discussion.
I don't know that losing is the right term...
not like losing a key or a watch.
It has to be purposeful.
Forfeited would be more like it.
I find that members don't use scripture much these days and I'm, let's say, used to using scripture.
Jesus and Paul speak about this all the time so it's difficult for me to understand how it's not seen...
maybe it's just not ACCEPTED?
Anyway, I don't know how you feel about this topic,
but I just try to be nice to everyone but the subject matter does get some hot under the collar.
I got two things from your post. You again falsely accused me. And you seem to possibly have anger issues. I’ll just agree to disagree with you. God bless brother.
yes.
YOU are into analogies.
I'M into scripture.
However, it's an important topic and I would not so lightly agree to disagree.
The NT: Jesus, Paul and others, teach that salvation is CONDITIONAL on our obedience to Jesus.
If you want to parce out some nuance about good works....you could do that and this convo would go on forever.
The crux of the matter is this:
Jesus said we have to ACT on His words/teachings.
I'm a follower of Jesus.
So I TRY to do what HE taught.
Jesus said this:
Matthew 7:26-27
26 Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not [r]act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27 The rain fell, and the [s]floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”
See Just...I don't see anything about intention in the words of Jesus.
If you do, please point it out.
What I see is that we are to ACT on His words otherwise we are a foolish man...
who built his house on sand....those who do not obey God have nothing to stand on...
Then the rains came and the house fell.
It fell - it did not stand.
Those that follow Jesus are ALREADY saved.
the intention should be clear and should not be up for discussion.
Where's the scripture that supports you're incorrect understanding of the NT??
Funny stuff sawdust.I'm not asking you to address anything. You said you were not going to respond to me so I'm not sure what you are doing.
The Bible describes faith so I don't need your definition.
You are wrong about not needing hope and faith in the eternal state. Hope, in scripture, is not some form of wishful thinking but is confidence in God so that is never going to change. Faith, as I explained, is the word alive and working in our life so we will continue to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God eternally.
Faith, hope and love remain eternally.
You think you're going to nned faith in heaven?
and hope?
WHAT exactly will you be hoping for?
You need t learn some more theology.
Sorry.
Scripture tells us that the Spirit of Christ can be grieved out of us in some way, that is true.
But I do understand that once the Spirit of Christ is put inside a faither, it harder to get out of that state than it is to stay in it.
You've already made up your mind. If you did not understand what I've said already, I can't help you. You are not even open to the possibility that you could be wrong. That's called being unteachable. I won't waste my time with you.
How did you explain John 3:13?? I didn't see it?
WHERE ARE YOUR gods NAMES????
I ask you as Paul asked, HAVE YOU received the Holy Ghost since you have believed???
Acts 19
King James Version
19 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
If you did, was it like verse 6? or Acts 2:4??
If not HOW WERE YOU BAPTTIZED????
Faith comes alive when we put it into practice..w.hich is why is shouldn't be dead.
But the actual meaning is what you've described above.
And, not to start a debate, but faith IS only a conviction.
We cannot be 100% certain that Jesus rose...
we can only have EVIDENCE that He did.
Proof is different than evidence.
Common Christian understanding.
This is WHY we speak of faith.
Oh.
You're here to CHANGE MY MIND?
That's most interesting.
It implies that YOU are right and I am wrong.
And you speak of OPEN MINDS??
Yeah.
Agreed.
But the possibility does exist.
As per Jesus...
even in the parable of the Prodigal Son...
but must leave till later.