Fair enough.
No, I am not seeing the same things here. My community has several vibrant congregations and the usual aberrant groups.
The Backsliding church
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No, I am not seeing the same things here. My community has several vibrant congregations and the usual aberrant groups.
1Peter 4:17For it is time for judgment to begin [m]with the household of God; and if it begins [n]with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, [o]WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER? 19Therefore, those also who suffer according to the will of God are to entrust their souls to a faithful Creator in doing what is right.
This is the reason I am saying that it's easier to backslide today. The unfaithful have already fallen away, & where many churches are shallow at best, IF we aren't careful we will be just as shallow & therefore closer to the line of no return.
I believe we need to press harder than the shallow church in order to make it in. I don't want anybody lost because of the trends in modern churches of wanting to be entertained with their P&W, playing the MEism card.
I also believe many christians are going thru trials to get them ready for the coming of Christ because they're not ready.
We can't keep saying that Jesus is getting His church ready & not go thru anything. I already have, & it took years to be changed. I understand the righteous will be tested because I have been.
This is the reason I am saying that it's easier to backslide today. The unfaithful have already fallen away, & where many churches are shallow at best, IF we aren't careful we will be just as shallow & therefore closer to the line of no return.
I believe we need to press harder than the shallow church in order to make it in. I don't want anybody lost because of the trends in modern churches of wanting to be entertained with their P&W, playing the MEism card.
I also believe many christians are going thru trials to get them ready for the coming of Christ because they're not ready.
We can't keep saying that Jesus is getting His church ready & not go thru anything. I already have, & it took years to be changed. I understand the righteous will be tested because I have been.
I see you don't see that citing Scripture against being judgmental is NOT being judgmental.
Sheeesh!
I believe that since we're in a generational decline that many believe there will be an end-time revival, possibly the biggest so far with all it's excitement we're used to.
However, I believe the tested christians will go thru either renewal or backslide.
I used to think I would like to be alive when Jesus comes, but now I would rather go home now than go thru everything the church would face before Jesus comes. My family is going thru things right now, and I'm praying & are hopeful they will make it. But what if they don't? Job didn't have that guarantee. I'm hoping the better covenant with better promises will help with that. I've see teens of christians go buck wild against Christ, esp. PK's. And what about grandkids that are going crazy? I dont want to go thru that, do you?
Come quickly Lord Jesus!!
However, I believe the tested christians will go thru either renewal or backslide.
I used to think I would like to be alive when Jesus comes, but now I would rather go home now than go thru everything the church would face before Jesus comes. My family is going thru things right now, and I'm praying & are hopeful they will make it. But what if they don't? Job didn't have that guarantee. I'm hoping the better covenant with better promises will help with that. I've see teens of christians go buck wild against Christ, esp. PK's. And what about grandkids that are going crazy? I dont want to go thru that, do you?
Come quickly Lord Jesus!!
My story is that backsliding occurs when people do not judge themselves before judging others (Matt. 7:1-5) in accordance with
advice from Paul, such as 1Tim. 5:1, 2Tim. 2:24-25, Eph. 4:15, Rom. 12:18, 14:1, 10, 19, 22, 15:1, 5, 7 (cf. Phil. 1:15-18), which is edifying
when accepted/heeded.
Again, I happen to prefer/find more edifying the old hymns in which each verse teaches biblical doctrine
more than the mindless repetition found in many current P&W songs, but bad taste may not be a sin.
That's not the only scenario where christians backslide, is it? No.
Your story isn't the only story. Yes, no one's story is the only story.
Those that don't forgive won't be forgiven....that's another right there. True, but this should not be construed as abetting sin.
God does not forgive the unrepentant.
I also believe that as we see the end approaching we should be more careful towards God. After all, we have slid back quite a bit.
1For this reason we must pay much closer attention to [a]what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2For if the word spoken through angels proved https://biblehub.com/nasb_/hebrews/2.htm#fnunalterable, and every violation and act of disobedience received a just [c]punishment, 3how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? [d]After it was at first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, and by various [e]miracles and by [f]gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.
1For this reason we must pay much closer attention to [a]what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it. 2For if the word spoken through angels proved https://biblehub.com/nasb_/hebrews/2.htm#fnunalterable, and every violation and act of disobedience received a just [c]punishment, 3how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? [d]After it was at first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, 4God also testifying with them, both by signs and wonders, and by various [e]miracles and by [f]gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will.
@Edify
As long as you approach your concerns the way you have, you will always get the responses that you are getting. I believe you have more introspection to go through before you know how to ask the things you are asking.
Your audience is the people you are suspicious of. They are stuck in the perception that "There is no such thing as the perfect church"; therefore, there is a tone of self-satisfaction. I have a lot I've written on the attitude that the church is a hospital for sinners rather than a body that should be united. Dissenters need to get their ducks in a row as they explore the Bible for answers and deal with professing Christians.
Perhaps ask those satisfied with the status quo of the organized churches and denominations specific questions:
How does your church deal with cliques and favoritism?
Does your church address grievances and dissent?
Do they ever see sin in their church and decline addressing it?
How do they explain 1 Corinthians 3:4 regarding dividing the body of Christ by using denominations? I have never had that answered. How do they follow Matthew 18 with the body divided like that?
The people you are asking probably don't understand the standards you are looking for, and perhaps you yourself are unclear in your own mind.
In your own personal time with God, definitely evaluate your own sin. Be clearer on your anecdotes as to why you have these concerns. Make your examples more unimpeachable.
Here is one of mine:
I went to the pastor of the church my wife and I went to when she was in decline for dementia. I asked if it would be possible if we could appeal to its members in order for us to have short visits so that my wife could experience mental stimulation and shake the cabin fever we were experiencing in our apartment. He said his members weren't like that, and he was right.
I did a similar rant here and was told I was blaming others for my own personal problems.
So good luck. For all I know, you are the problem, but if you want to hash it out and think I could help, let me know.
As long as you approach your concerns the way you have, you will always get the responses that you are getting. I believe you have more introspection to go through before you know how to ask the things you are asking.
Your audience is the people you are suspicious of. They are stuck in the perception that "There is no such thing as the perfect church"; therefore, there is a tone of self-satisfaction. I have a lot I've written on the attitude that the church is a hospital for sinners rather than a body that should be united. Dissenters need to get their ducks in a row as they explore the Bible for answers and deal with professing Christians.
Perhaps ask those satisfied with the status quo of the organized churches and denominations specific questions:
How does your church deal with cliques and favoritism?
Does your church address grievances and dissent?
Do they ever see sin in their church and decline addressing it?
How do they explain 1 Corinthians 3:4 regarding dividing the body of Christ by using denominations? I have never had that answered. How do they follow Matthew 18 with the body divided like that?
The people you are asking probably don't understand the standards you are looking for, and perhaps you yourself are unclear in your own mind.
In your own personal time with God, definitely evaluate your own sin. Be clearer on your anecdotes as to why you have these concerns. Make your examples more unimpeachable.
Here is one of mine:
I went to the pastor of the church my wife and I went to when she was in decline for dementia. I asked if it would be possible if we could appeal to its members in order for us to have short visits so that my wife could experience mental stimulation and shake the cabin fever we were experiencing in our apartment. He said his members weren't like that, and he was right.
I did a similar rant here and was told I was blaming others for my own personal problems.
So good luck. For all I know, you are the problem, but if you want to hash it out and think I could help, let me know.
I did a quick search of the KJV on the word "backslid*". All occurrences of the word are in the old testament. I can't find any occurrences of "church*" in the old testament. So instead of thinking about a "backsliding church", per se., it might be helpful to you to search the new testament for the descriptions that it uses for the church in order to better assess the church you're dealing with under light of Scripture.
Also you might want to avoid Pastor Suzi Q's. (1 Tim. 2:11-15, 1 Cor. 14:34-35)
Yes, we need to look for synonyms or descriptions as well as for the word itself.
What OT word did you find for "backslid"? Stiff-necked?
The OT equivalent to NT church would be the Jewish tribes or Israelites.
Right?
I'm hoping to find an actual answer. Some helped but most couldn't wait to blame as they usually do.
I'm done here, because I told you, That's all I'm supposed to do. The rest is up to you.
Well, you could not wait to want me banned,
so I see what you don't see.
Regarding the moving of the Spirit declining, one of the main gifts needed today is applying GW to politics
before we lose the blessings of living in the USA. IOW, worship needs to be per Rom. 12:1-2.
Do you agree or am I alone?
Yes, as in Jer. 2:19, 3:22, 5:6, 14:7, 15:6 and Ezek. 37:23 per my NIV concordance.
Thanks.
I guess you didn't read my post.
I'm the only one who understood the context of when you talked about your desire to share your insights from the pulpit.
This is what I would call evidence of your sincerity.
I even spoke of my own experience with being found at fault for what I see in the church.
But you're done? If so, you are exemplifying what you are complaining about.