Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

yes what? you agree with Romans then? And Galatians? cause the 10 commandments are not salvation and certainly not the covenant

I've participated in some of your threads. I'm going to find the posts where you say the letters of Paul are not something we need to understand or follow or however you worded it.

Might take a while, but I will find them
 
This is what I know----
On Friday July 27, 1962, about 8 PM, I trusted Jesus Christ as my Savior.
At that moment, I entered the family of God through adoption.
I became a son of God and as a son, eternal life, and a joint heir with Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God.
God the Father sent the Holy Spirit to dwell with my spirit, to lead, guide, comfort, and correct.
For the last 63 years, I have strived to do as He commanded.
I have failed more often than succeeded.
But from that moment I believe, I have been eternally secure in my standing before God.
i am happy for you.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HeIsHere
There are scripture where Jesus talks about believing Him as Lord of your life too though.

You can't just ignore those Lord scriptures. They actually harmonize with scripture that says He's the Savior.

Are you going to accuse Jesus too in all the verses where He says to believe Him as your Lord? Because that's what you're doing.


🧐
Jesus being Lord of my life began when I was eternally saved by my belief.
I summit to His Lordship because I am already eternally saved, not to secure it.
Any person who is truly saved will summit to His Lordship, some more than others.
They will produce fruit. But with some you have to search through the thorns to find it.
 
Jesus being Lord of my life began when I was eternally saved by my belief.
I summit to His Lordship because I am already eternally saved, not to secure it.
Any person who is truly saved will summit to His Lordship, some more than others.
They will produce fruit. But with some you have to search through the thorns to find it.


Then why are you making false accusations against @vassal ? It's clear you didn't read any of his posts.


🧐
 
Short form of what the op considers the new covenant, written under the op title of 'the 10 commandments are the covenant, did you know?'

Some of his thoughts on Paul, one being that Paul taught a different gospel

Paul's gospel is different from jesus's you give the wrong advice.

some people say it is the same but read the fine print it is not!
Post 24 'Loss of Salvation'

Jesus said and quoted the commandments as the means for salvation. His words are true and certain. Then Why do you follow Paul the Pharisee, and to use Paul's own words, not mine; The least of the Apostles, The chief of sinners, Less than the least of all the saints...
post 2639 'the Sabbath'

No understanding of the context in which certain things are said.

unfortunately Paul said things that are not godly at all, I am certain when you read his epistles you came across verses that were inappropriate, but going further would cause trouble here so lets not continue.
Post 1253 'the Sabbath'

As can be seen by the above quotes from the op, NO he does no agree with Paul.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Inquisitor
Then why are you making false accusations against @vassal ? It's clear you didn't read any of his posts.


🧐
He said we are not secure in our salvation which is false.
By his statements, he implies that it is through works we obtain security.
That is what I see in his post.
I have never met anyone to admit they believe in works for salvation that admit it.
There is no salvation without security.
It is only a life lived in fear of not doing enough to receive eternal life.
Eternal life purchased by Jesus with His death, burial, and resurrection to those who simply believe.
If a person has doubts, he has not truly believed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Inquisitor
yes what? you agree with Romans then? And Galatians? cause the 10 commandments are not salvation and certainly not the covenant

I've participated in some of your threads. I'm going to find the posts where you say the letters of Paul are not something we need to understand or follow or however you worded it.

Might take a while, but I will find them
hard to understand see 2 peter 3:16 below;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 
He said we are not secure in our salvation which is false.
By his statements, he implies that it is through works we obtain security.
That is what I see in his post.
I have never met anyone to admit they believe in works for salvation that admit it.
There is no salvation without security.
It is only a life lived in fear of not doing enough to receive eternal life.
Eternal life purchased by Jesus with His death, burial, and resurrection to those who simply believe.
If a person has doubts, he has not truly believed.


No he didn't. You need to read his posts carefully.


🧐
 
  • Like
Reactions: vassal
hard to understand see 2 peter 3:16 below;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Hard to understand will apply to those who find what is written hard to understand. Those who do search the scriptures and study will be enlightened by the word and praise God all the more for the wonderful salvation we have in His Son. No need to yell.
 
hard to understand see 2 peter 3:16 below;
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

As you said to someone else:

Hi Mailman,

I see that many people put too much weight on the words of Paul and forget again and again the teachings of Christ. If Paul said the same things as Christ there would be no arguments on this and any other forum. Paul is difficult to understand the way he writes is sometimes contradictory. I urge everyone to return to the teachings of Christ he is the way to eternal life. You cannot and will never go wrong if you follow his teachings. Jesus is the son of God who sits on the right of our Holy Father in Heaven, he did all things, gave us everything not Paul. We have to give importance to the words of Jesus above all else and not place Jesus in rank 2 behind Paul. When there is a discrepancy in the teachings we must follow Jesus teachings. what It means to believe in Christ, is to do as he asks, to proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven and to repent, abandon sin as defined by the commandments. It is not to constantly debate the law and commandments of GOD but also to teach them. Post 1151 in 'the Sabbath' again

So, there we have again the dismissal and not the agreement, concerning Paul. He will not address Galatians, let alone another letter because these letters reveal life in the Spirit rather than obedience to commandments.
 
As you said to someone else:

Hi Mailman,

I see that many people put too much weight on the words of Paul and forget again and again the teachings of Christ. If Paul said the same things as Christ there would be no arguments on this and any other forum. Paul is difficult to understand the way he writes is sometimes contradictory. I urge everyone to return to the teachings of Christ he is the way to eternal life. You cannot and will never go wrong if you follow his teachings. Jesus is the son of God who sits on the right of our Holy Father in Heaven, he did all things, gave us everything not Paul. We have to give importance to the words of Jesus above all else and not place Jesus in rank 2 behind Paul. When there is a discrepancy in the teachings we must follow Jesus teachings. what It means to believe in Christ, is to do as he asks, to proclaim the Kingdom of Heaven and to repent, abandon sin as defined by the commandments. It is not to constantly debate the law and commandments of GOD but also to teach them. Post 1151 in 'the Sabbath' again

So, there we have again the dismissal and not the agreement, concerning Paul. He will not address Galatians, let alone another letter because these letters reveal life in the Spirit rather than obedience to commandments.
What you are saying is this person claims to know what parts of the Bible to accept and what parts to reject.
Proverbs 16:8 comes to mind.
Enough of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pinebeach
I have read all his post and I seem to see things you do not.


He merely pointed out the kind of belief Jesus finds acceptable for salvation.

His posts line up with what Jesus and Paul and rest of the Bible authors have been saying. Belief is not mere head knowledge, it is believing Jesus is your Lord, meaning He calls the shots in your life and that your life is no longer your own.

I think I'm starting to see why you and some others don't like @vassal 's posts....


🤔
 
He merely pointed out the kind of belief Jesus finds acceptable for salvation.

His posts line up with what Jesus and Paul and rest of the Bible authors have been saying. Belief is not mere head knowledge, it is believing Jesus is your Lord, meaning He calls the shots in your life and that your life is no longer your own.

I think I'm starting to see why you and some others don't like @vassal 's posts....


🤔
Read his first post in this thread.
What did he say?
 
He merely pointed out the kind of belief Jesus finds acceptable for salvation.

His posts line up with what Jesus and Paul and rest of the Bible authors have been saying. Belief is not mere head knowledge, it is believing Jesus is your Lord, meaning He calls the shots in your life and that your life is no longer your own.

I think I'm starting to see why you and some others don't like @vassal 's posts....


🤔
He also said in that first post that salvation must be kept.
That is works for salvation,not works because one is saved.
He has a way with words as many false teachers do that deceive many.
Also, anyone who dismisses the words of Paul is a false teacher.
 
He also said in that first post that salvation must be kept.
That is works for salvation,not works because one is saved.
He has a way with words as many false teachers do that deceive many.
Also, anyone who dismisses the words of Paul is a false teacher.


He kmows OSAS is false doctrine.

To be secure is to remain in the Lord, to abide in Him, because eternal life is in Jesus Himself.

No abid8ng in Christ? No eternal life.


🧐
 
  • Like
Reactions: Melach
A much more knowledgeable christian than I said:

''Sin will not keep you out of Heaven but losing your faith will''

That statement deserves much thought NOT just a knee jerk reaction
 
Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe. They often quote verses from the Gospel of John that speak about believing and eternal life, and from this they conclude that nothing else matters afterward. This approach treats belief as a moment instead of a life. When the words of Jesus are read in their full setting, a different picture appears. Jesus never taught belief as a bare statement of agreement. In Scripture, belief is living trust that receives Him, follows Him, remains with Him, and is proven over time. Salvation depends on this kind of belief.

What Jesus Means by “Believe”
A major source of confusion is the modern meaning of the word believe. Today it often means agreeing with a fact in the mind. In the Bible, believing means trusting, relying on, and giving oneself over to something. It involves loyalty and direction, not just thought.
Jesus Himself shows this clearly. He said,
“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.
Jesus also said,
“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:29, ASV)
Believing is not presented as a human claim but as something God works in a person. When God produces belief, it reshapes the will, the desires, and the direction of life. This is why belief in Scripture is never passive.


Believing Requires Remaining and Abiding
The Gospel of John itself makes clear that believing must continue. Jesus never spoke of belief as something that happens once and then becomes untouchable.
He said,
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”(John 8:31–32, ASV)
The condition is simple and strong. If you abide, then you are truly His disciple. Abiding means remaining, staying, and continuing. Freedom is promised only to those who remain in His word.
Jesus then gave the image of the vine and the branches to explain this reality:
“Abide in me, and I in you… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.” (John 15:4,6, ASV)
This picture only makes sense if remaining matters. A branch must already be connected in order to be removed. Jesus is warning His own followers that life depends on staying connected to Him.


Eternal Life Is Given, but It Must Be Kept
Jesus clearly taught that eternal life is given to the believer.
“He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life.” (John 5:24, ASV)
This is often quoted as if it ends the discussion. But Jesus never treated eternal life as permission to stop listening or following. Eternal life is a living gift that must be guarded.
Later He said,
“If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51, ASV)
Here eternal life is tied to keeping His word. Hearing and believing bring life, but keeping His word shows that the life is real and continuing.


Jesus’ Warnings Only Make Sense if Continuance Matters
Jesus repeatedly warned His own listeners about failing to endure.
“He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
This statement would have no meaning if salvation were guaranteed at the first moment of belief. Endurance only matters if turning away is possible.
Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower. He spoke of people who receive the word with joy, believe for a time, and yet later fall away:
“They believe for a while; and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13, ASV)
Temporary belief is not saving belief. What matters is belief that survives testing.


Doing the Will of God Reveals True Faith
Jesus was direct about the final judgment.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21, ASV)
These people believed enough to speak religious words and even acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Yet they were rejected because their lives did not match their claim.
Jesus ended this teaching with the parable of the two builders. Both heard His words. One obeyed, one did not. Only the obedient one stood in the end (Matthew 7:24–27). Hearing without doing leads to collapse.


The Narrow Way Is a Life That Is Walked
Jesus described salvation as a path.
“Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life.” (Matthew 7:14, ASV)
A gate is an entry point, but the way is a road that must be walked. Entering does not replace walking. Salvation is found on the path that follows.


To conclude, Jesus never taught salvation as a sentence spoken once and never tested again. He taught salvation as believing that remains, faith that obeys, and trust that endures. The verses in John about believing do not cancel Jesus’ commands and warnings. They explain the depth and nature of the belief that saves.
Salvation begins with believing, but it is completed by continuing.
“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV)

Hi Vassel, nice to see someone trying to rediscover what true faith and faithing is.

It would explain alot if you took a look at my rediscovering pisteuo thread 4 or 5 pages back.

Keep it up.
 
Salvation isn't the journey. It begins the journey and is what makes it possible.

This is what happens when descriptive verses are made to be prescriptive verses.

Well said.

They misunderstand the sole reason that they are saved.

They grossly under estimate the power of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

They do not boast in Jesus.

A Christian life devoid of the full power of the Holy Spirit.

A simple formulae for salvation shown below.

Faith plus works (obedience, law, love) equals salvation.

Salvation never results from the belief in Jesus for salvation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cameron143
What you are saying is this person claims to know what parts of the Bible to accept and what parts to reject.
Proverbs 16:8 comes to mind.
Enough of this.

That is exactly what is going on. I only put up a few comments; when you put it all together, he goes on and on about Jesus, but really Jesus never said to obey the commandments and in fact, He replaced or summed up the 10 as we know. Jesus did not die so that we could better uphold the 10 commandments.

Isaiah declares:

Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

Jesus was pierced for our transgressions, all of our sins have been laid upon Him

I think Isaiah was a true prophet or shall we dismiss him also?

The op dismisses Paul and yet represents himself as an authority. It's not the gospel.