Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

[Howdy]

according to scripture is not secure, this had been debated for ages there are 2 camps both cannot be right,.

Personally i follow scripture and it absolutely and without a doubt confirms salvation is not secure. Many examples can be found in the bible. the heart makes the difference always.

So your hope for eternal life is not based on your belief in Jesus but in your hope you have done enough after you believed.
I find it ironic that people say they do not believe in works for salvation always want to add to what John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-10 states.

 

[pinebeach]

Agreed. He consistently sidesteps Paul's words. Hence my previous message. ^^^

It's quite the dance. But it's all left feet. I'm not going to go look it up, but he said that Paul is not authoratative and that Peter said he is hard to understand. (We'll just ignore the disciples in Acts if you don't mind. )

This commandment business is not the gospel and saves no one. The arguement about obeying results from someone who cannot accept that Jesus paid the price, our price and we have been ransomed. So much to salvation and this person just does not accept the scripture but conforms everythig to his word, not God's.

 

[NightTwister]

according to scripture is not secure, this had been debated for ages there are 2 camps both cannot be right,.

Personally i follow scripture and it absolutely and without a doubt confirms salvation is not secure. Many examples can be found in the bible. the heart makes the difference always.

Salvation happens at the beginning of our awareness and response, not at the end of our lives.

 

[vassal]

You still have not dealt with Paul's message to the Galatians.

"I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Verse 3 is for YOU, @vassal, and everyone else who is advocating outward adherence to the Mosaic law. Are YOU so foolish?

you obviously did not read my answer to you or you would nor have called me foolish

Jesus spoke very clearly about this in the Sermon on the Mount.

He said that anger and insults come from the same bad root as violence. Then He gave a strong warning:

“But I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire” (Matthew 5:22, ASV).

Jesus was not saying we can never point out error or wrong teaching. He Himself corrected people firmly. What He warned against was speaking with contempt, hatred, or pride, treating someone as worthless.

Calling someone “fool” in this sense means looking down on them, despising them, and judging their heart. Jesus taught that this kind of speech shows a heart problem, and God looks first at the heart.

Correct with truth if needed, but do not insult, hate, or despise people. Love, humility, and mercy must guide our words.

 

[HeIsHere]

I do not believe in works for salvation but rather what Jesus said and explained what "true" works are supposed to be but Again I mention NOT FOR SALVATION!

Jesus made a clear difference between the works He asked for and the works practiced by the Pharisees. The works Jesus called people to were never about earning favor with God by rules. They were actions that flowed from a changed heart. Jesus taught that loving God and loving others is the center of everything.

From that love come real actions. He said that good works should shine so people glorify the Father, not the person doing them (Matthew 5:16, ASV). He taught mercy, saying that the merciful will receive mercy (Matthew 5:7, ASV). He told people to help the poor quietly, without seeking praise, showing that true obedience is humble and hidden (Matthew 6:3, ASV). Jesus connected obedience directly to love when He said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV). He also warned that hearing His words is not enough, because only those who hear and do them are like a wise man who builds on rock (Matthew 7:24, ASV).

When He spoke of us feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and caring for those in need, He said that these acts were done to Him personally (Matthew 25:35–36, ASV). These works do not replace faith. They show that faith is real and alive.

The Pharisees, however, focused on what Jesus exposed as empty works. They did their actions to be seen by others, seeking honor and respect rather than pleasing God (Matthew 23:5, ASV). They placed heavy burdens on people through strict rules but showed little mercy or help themselves (Matthew 23:4, ASV). Jesus said they cleaned the outside but were unclean inside, caring more about appearances than the heart (Matthew 23:25, ASV).
They held tightly to traditions while pushing aside God’s command to love, making God’s word void by their customs (Matthew 15:6, ASV). Their obedience produced pride, as seen in the man who thanked God that he was better than others (Luke 18:11, ASV), instead of humility.

The difference is clear. The works Jesus taught come from faith and love and lead to mercy, obedience, and care for others. The works of the Pharisees were focused on law without love, outward form without inward truth. Jesus did not reject obedience. He rejected obedience without love, mercy and compassion, and He called people to a living faith that obeys God from the heart.


It is for God to judge this, he sees the heart and will see what to do but He is merciful and does not want anyone to be lost. in life we all have temptations and trials we need to do our best with what we have if we can, there are no definitive, certain way, but we will be judged by Jesus words as he said.

Now we have a direct access to God and can Ask for help and strength in this life and He will answer, Jesus promised this if we ask in his name. I have witnessed this and tried and true!

So are you saying we must prove our faith to God by our true works?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

One must be born again through the blood of Christ shed on our behalf for the remission of our sins. Jesus is Lord and words do not make Him so.


They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones. Rev. 17:14

And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Daniel 7:14

9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2: 9-11

God exalted Jesus to His own glory. By all means confess Who He is now, but don't think you make it so. He is.

You're posting verses about Jesus being Lord in general. But is He the Lord of your life?

Is He really the authority over you? That's the kind of belief He wants.

 

[Howdy]

Salvation is in Christ Jesus alone.
That salvation is secure in Jesus alone.
Jesus does not need any help is saving a person or keeping that person eternally saved.
If a person really believes Jesus need our help, then I must ask have they truly believed?
NOW, if a person truly believes, His heart will be changed. Not all at once, but over time as the Holy Spirit that now dwells within that person leads and corrects.
He will strive to do all that Jesus commands us to do.
Not to secure salvation but because that changed heart will do so out of love.

 

[HeIsHere]

Salvation happens at the beginning of our awareness and response, not at the end of our lives.

It is always a joy the way the "Reformed" camp likes to express things.... no "will" involved. lol

 

[vassal]

So your hope for eternal life is not based on your belief in Jesus but in your hope you have done enough after you believed.
I find it ironic that people say they do not believe in works for salvation always want to add to what John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-10 states.

no, not what I said at all you say things i did not say.
to you, what does believe mean ? in this case jesus? if you truly believe in him would you not do what is says? I explain this in the Opening post. did you read it?

 

[Dino246]

you obviously did not read my answer to you or you would nor have called me foolish

Jesus spoke very clearly about this in the Sermon on the Mount.

He said that anger and insults come from the same bad root as violence. Then He gave a strong warning:

“But I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire” (Matthew 5:22, ASV).

Did I call you foolish? Or does Scripture ask if you are?

Jesus was not saying we can never point out error or wrong teaching. He Himself corrected people firmly. What He warned against was speaking with contempt, hatred, or pride, treating someone as worthless.

Calling someone “fool” in this sense means looking down on them, despising them, and judging their heart. Jesus taught that this kind of speech shows a heart problem, and God looks first at the heart.

Correct with truth if needed, but do not insult, hate, or despise people. Love, humility, and mercy must guide our words.

Quit whining and deal with the relevant Scripture, penned by Paul under guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[vassal]

Did I call you foolish? Or does Scripture ask if you are?


Quit whining and deal with the relevant Scripture, penned by Paul under guidance of the Holy Spirit.

i am not the one whining

 

[pinebeach]

Just an aside; when some people, usually the same people, insert a laughing emoji on posts that are not funny and actually make sense, I get the impression of deliberate goading because of personal reasons. Also, a hyena doing what hyenas do. I certainly have had my fair share of something laughing for no reason in this forum..................................

That's ok. You can laugh at this one.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So your hope for eternal life is not based on your belief in Jesus but in your hope you have done enough after you believed.
I find it ironic that people say they do not believe in works for salvation always want to add to what John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-10 states.

There are scripture where Jesus talks about believing Him as Lord of your life too though.

You can't just ignore those Lord scriptures. They actually harmonize with scripture that says He's the Savior.

Are you going to accuse Jesus too in all the verses where He says to believe Him as your Lord? Because that's what you're doing.

 

[vassal]

So are you saying we must prove our faith to God by our true works?

James brother of Jesus in chapter 2 answers this question directly I include the verses below;

James 2 :14-88(ASV)


What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it have not works, is dead in itself.
Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith.
Thou believest that God is one; thou doest well: the demons also believe, and shudder. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith apart from works is barren?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?
Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God.
Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.
And in like manner was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way?
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.

 

[vassal]

Just an aside; when some people, usually the same people, insert a laughing emoji on posts that are not funny and actually make sense, I get the impression of deliberate goading because of personal reasons. Also, a hyena doing what hyenas do. I certainly have had my fair share of something laughing for no reason in this forum..................................

That's ok. You can laugh at this one.

How old are you?

 

[pinebeach]

you accuse me unjustly.

Awww.

Prove it. Do you believe Paul's letters are actual scripture? yes or no will suffice. Don't bother with all the rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's still going to sink.

Yes or no.

 

[vassal]

Awww.

Prove it. Do you believe Paul's letters are actual scripture? yes or no will suffice. Don't bother with all the rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's still going to sink.

Yes or no.

Awww.

Prove it. Do you believe Paul's letters are actual scripture? yes or no will suffice. Don't bother with all the rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. It's still going to sink.

Yes or no.

yes!

 

[pinebeach]

So your hope for eternal life is not based on your belief in Jesus but in your hope you have done enough after you believed.
I find it ironic that people say they do not believe in works for salvation always want to add to what John 3:16 and Ephesians 2:8-10 states.

Have you seen his threads in which he plainly states the 10 commandments are the covenant? If not, you are in for an education on his beliefs....don't have to read too much. It's just rinse and repeat over and over ...

 

[pinebeach]

How old are you?

No sense of humor? figures

 

[Howdy]

This is what I know----
On Friday July 27, 1962, about 8 PM, I trusted Jesus Christ as my Savior.
At that moment, I entered the family of God through adoption.
I became a son of God and as a son, eternal life, and a joint heir with Jesus, the Only Begotten Son of God.
God the Father sent the Holy Spirit to dwell with my spirit, to lead, guide, comfort, and correct.
For the last 63 years, I have strived to do as He commanded.
I have failed more often than succeeded.
But from that moment I believe, I have been eternally secure in my standing before God.