Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

[Brasspen]

Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe. They often quote verses from the Gospel of John that speak about believing and eternal life, and from this they conclude that nothing else matters afterward. This approach treats belief as a moment instead of a life. When the words of Jesus are read in their full setting, a different picture appears. Jesus never taught belief as a bare statement of agreement. In Scripture, belief is living trust that receives Him, follows Him, remains with Him, and is proven over time. Salvation depends on this kind of belief.

What Jesus Means by “Believe”
A major source of confusion is the modern meaning of the word believe. Today it often means agreeing with a fact in the mind. In the Bible, believing means trusting, relying on, and giving oneself over to something. It involves loyalty and direction, not just thought.
Jesus Himself shows this clearly. He said,
“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.
Jesus also said,
“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:29, ASV)
Believing is not presented as a human claim but as something God works in a person. When God produces belief, it reshapes the will, the desires, and the direction of life. This is why belief in Scripture is never passive.

Believing Requires Remaining and Abiding
The Gospel of John itself makes clear that believing must continue. Jesus never spoke of belief as something that happens once and then becomes untouchable.
He said,
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”(John 8:31–32, ASV)
The condition is simple and strong. If you abide, then you are truly His disciple. Abiding means remaining, staying, and continuing. Freedom is promised only to those who remain in His word.
Jesus then gave the image of the vine and the branches to explain this reality:
“Abide in me, and I in you… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.” (John 15:4,6, ASV)
This picture only makes sense if remaining matters. A branch must already be connected in order to be removed. Jesus is warning His own followers that life depends on staying connected to Him.

Eternal Life Is Given, but It Must Be Kept
Jesus clearly taught that eternal life is given to the believer.
“He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life.” (John 5:24, ASV)
This is often quoted as if it ends the discussion. But Jesus never treated eternal life as permission to stop listening or following. Eternal life is a living gift that must be guarded.
Later He said,
“If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51, ASV)
Here eternal life is tied to keeping His word. Hearing and believing bring life, but keeping His word shows that the life is real and continuing.

Jesus’ Warnings Only Make Sense if Continuance Matters
Jesus repeatedly warned His own listeners about failing to endure.
“He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
This statement would have no meaning if salvation were guaranteed at the first moment of belief. Endurance only matters if turning away is possible.
Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower. He spoke of people who receive the word with joy, believe for a time, and yet later fall away:
“They believe for a while; and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13, ASV)
Temporary belief is not saving belief. What matters is belief that survives testing.

Doing the Will of God Reveals True Faith
Jesus was direct about the final judgment.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21, ASV)
These people believed enough to speak religious words and even acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Yet they were rejected because their lives did not match their claim.
Jesus ended this teaching with the parable of the two builders. Both heard His words. One obeyed, one did not. Only the obedient one stood in the end (Matthew 7:24–27). Hearing without doing leads to collapse.

The Narrow Way Is a Life That Is Walked
Jesus described salvation as a path.
“Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life.” (Matthew 7:14, ASV)
A gate is an entry point, but the way is a road that must be walked. Entering does not replace walking. Salvation is found on the path that follows.

To conclude, Jesus never taught salvation as a sentence spoken once and never tested again. He taught salvation as believing that remains, faith that obeys, and trust that endures. The verses in John about believing do not cancel Jesus’ commands and warnings. They explain the depth and nature of the belief that saves.
Salvation begins with believing, but it is completed by continuing.
“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV)

I know this first hand this is true. Because, I was at the gates of hell this one time after almost dead from dehydration.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So you believe in works for

Therefore are these three verses with the Chapter of Colosians true

New International Version
Col 1:21

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.

New International Version

Col 1:22-23

22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven,and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

True or false is that done by Son for us all to beleive and stand in? And then grow unto maturity from God being for us Phil 1:6, hebrews 5:12-6:3, Hebrews 4:9-13

try this part of Colossians also

“Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on Love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, since as members of one body you were called to peace. And be thankful. Let the message of Christ dwell among you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom through psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit, singing to God with gratitude in your hearts.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-16‬ ‭NIV‬‬

 

[studier]

“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.

A lot of good work in what you wrote. Thank you.

A comment about the above excerpt: I'd tighten it up a bit as the last clause does - True belief is obedience.

Paul treats it as such in Rom10:16 where he parallels faith and obedience in dealing with initial belief. Heb3:18-19 does the same in dealing with living in faith. This is also seen in other verses.

Simply put, obeying God is an intrinsic part of genuine belief in God. And, as you've written, genuine belief is also abiding/remaining and enduring [and other things].

Salvation is a process.

 

[rewriter]

Salvation as a Journey Rooted in True Belief

Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe. They often quote verses from the Gospel of John that speak about believing and eternal life, and from this they conclude that nothing else matters afterward. This approach treats belief as a moment instead of a life. When the words of Jesus are read in their full setting, a different picture appears. Jesus never taught belief as a bare statement of agreement. In Scripture, belief is living trust that receives Him, follows Him, remains with Him, and is proven over time. Salvation depends on this kind of belief.

What Jesus Means by “Believe”
A major source of confusion is the modern meaning of the word believe. Today it often means agreeing with a fact in the mind. In the Bible, believing means trusting, relying on, and giving oneself over to something. It involves loyalty and direction, not just thought.
Jesus Himself shows this clearly. He said,
“He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life.” (John 3:36, ASV)
This is one sentence spoken by the same voice, yet it contrasts belief with disobedience. That tells us what kind of belief Jesus is talking about. True belief moves a person toward obedience. A belief that refuses obedience is not the belief that leads to life.
Jesus also said,
“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:29, ASV)
Believing is not presented as a human claim but as something God works in a person. When God produces belief, it reshapes the will, the desires, and the direction of life. This is why belief in Scripture is never passive.

Believing Requires Remaining and Abiding
The Gospel of John itself makes clear that believing must continue. Jesus never spoke of belief as something that happens once and then becomes untouchable.
He said,
“If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”(John 8:31–32, ASV)
The condition is simple and strong. If you abide, then you are truly His disciple. Abiding means remaining, staying, and continuing. Freedom is promised only to those who remain in His word.
Jesus then gave the image of the vine and the branches to explain this reality:
“Abide in me, and I in you… If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered.” (John 15:4,6, ASV)
This picture only makes sense if remaining matters. A branch must already be connected in order to be removed. Jesus is warning His own followers that life depends on staying connected to Him.

Eternal Life Is Given, but It Must Be Kept
Jesus clearly taught that eternal life is given to the believer.
“He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life.” (John 5:24, ASV)
This is often quoted as if it ends the discussion. But Jesus never treated eternal life as permission to stop listening or following. Eternal life is a living gift that must be guarded.
Later He said,
“If a man keep my word, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51, ASV)
Here eternal life is tied to keeping His word. Hearing and believing bring life, but keeping His word shows that the life is real and continuing.

Jesus’ Warnings Only Make Sense if Continuance Matters
Jesus repeatedly warned His own listeners about failing to endure.
“He that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.” (Matthew 24:13, ASV)
This statement would have no meaning if salvation were guaranteed at the first moment of belief. Endurance only matters if turning away is possible.
Jesus explained this in the parable of the sower. He spoke of people who receive the word with joy, believe for a time, and yet later fall away:
“They believe for a while; and in time of temptation fall away.” (Luke 8:13, ASV)
Temporary belief is not saving belief. What matters is belief that survives testing.

Doing the Will of God Reveals True Faith
Jesus was direct about the final judgment.
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21, ASV)
These people believed enough to speak religious words and even acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Yet they were rejected because their lives did not match their claim.
Jesus ended this teaching with the parable of the two builders. Both heard His words. One obeyed, one did not. Only the obedient one stood in the end (Matthew 7:24–27). Hearing without doing leads to collapse.

The Narrow Way Is a Life That Is Walked
Jesus described salvation as a path.
“Strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, that leadeth unto life.” (Matthew 7:14, ASV)
A gate is an entry point, but the way is a road that must be walked. Entering does not replace walking. Salvation is found on the path that follows.

To conclude, Jesus never taught salvation as a sentence spoken once and never tested again. He taught salvation as believing that remains, faith that obeys, and trust that endures. The verses in John about believing do not cancel Jesus’ commands and warnings. They explain the depth and nature of the belief that saves.
Salvation begins with believing, but it is completed by continuing.
“Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee the crown of life.” (Revelation 2:10, ASV)

I tend to ask people a simple question. If your belief/faith is not strong enough to change the way you live, what makes you think it is strong enough to get God's attention and salvation?

 

[vassal]

I was being subtle. You completely sidestepped Paul's words and didn't even begin to address them.


The subject I raised is not "what kind of belief Jesus meant"... at all. It's what Paul said to the Galatians, who were adding obedience (to selected old covenant statutes) to their faith. Paul clearly called that the wrong response.


You have tried to dismiss Paul's words entirely by misrepresenting them. Nobody is saying that belief cancels obedience or endurance. Paul didn't say that either.

Paul did say that outward physical obedience to the Law was an inappropriate addition to faith.


Who said it was "faith versus works"? Paul didn't say that. I didn't say that.

So you believe in works for salvation.
Sorry fellow, but you cannot earn salvation.
It is a gift of God given to all who by faith believe in Jesus who paid your sin debt on the cross.
Good works are a sign to others that you are saved, not the process of earning God's forgiveness.

I do not believe in works for salvation but rather what Jesus said and explained what "true" works are supposed to be but Again I mention NOT FOR SALVATION!

Jesus made a clear difference between the works He asked for and the works practiced by the Pharisees. The works Jesus called people to were never about earning favor with God by rules. They were actions that flowed from a changed heart. Jesus taught that loving God and loving others is the center of everything.

From that love come real actions. He said that good works should shine so people glorify the Father, not the person doing them (Matthew 5:16, ASV). He taught mercy, saying that the merciful will receive mercy (Matthew 5:7, ASV). He told people to help the poor quietly, without seeking praise, showing that true obedience is humble and hidden (Matthew 6:3, ASV). Jesus connected obedience directly to love when He said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV). He also warned that hearing His words is not enough, because only those who hear and do them are like a wise man who builds on rock (Matthew 7:24, ASV).

When He spoke of us feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and caring for those in need, He said that these acts were done to Him personally (Matthew 25:35–36, ASV). These works do not replace faith. They show that faith is real and alive.

The Pharisees, however, focused on what Jesus exposed as empty works. They did their actions to be seen by others, seeking honor and respect rather than pleasing God (Matthew 23:5, ASV). They placed heavy burdens on people through strict rules but showed little mercy or help themselves (Matthew 23:4, ASV). Jesus said they cleaned the outside but were unclean inside, caring more about appearances than the heart (Matthew 23:25, ASV).
They held tightly to traditions while pushing aside God’s command to love, making God’s word void by their customs (Matthew 15:6, ASV). Their obedience produced pride, as seen in the man who thanked God that he was better than others (Luke 18:11, ASV), instead of humility.

The difference is clear. The works Jesus taught come from faith and love and lead to mercy, obedience, and care for others. The works of the Pharisees were focused on law without love, outward form without inward truth. Jesus did not reject obedience. He rejected obedience without love, mercy and compassion, and He called people to a living faith that obeys God from the heart.

 

[vassal]

I tend to ask people a simple question. If your belief/faith is not strong enough to change the way you live, what makes you think it is strong enough to get God's attention and salvation?

Jesus taught that real faith always shows itself in how a person lives. He said that a good tree is known by its fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit (Matthew 7:17–20, ASV). In other words, if nothing changes, the faith is empty.
Jesus also said that not everyone who calls Him “Lord” will enter the kingdom, but the one who does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21, ASV). Words and beliefs alone are not enough.
So if faith does not change the way someone lives, loves, forgives, and obeys God, then it is not the kind of faith Jesus spoke about. The faith that gets God’s attention is living faith, faith that listens to Jesus and does what He says.

 

[HeIsHere]

Jesus taught that real faith always shows itself in how a person lives.

How much "true belief" is enough to save and how much "real faith" does one require to show?

 

[pinebeach]

Why people use the term 'most' when referring to what others believe, is ridiculous because it is impossible to prove.

This lordship salvation business is an invention of John MacArthur and others of his condemnatory judgemental ilk. The Bible does not express lordship salvation anywhere.

As a matter of unchangeable fact, Jesus is already Lord. Salvation, the moment thereof, is the beginning of our life in Christ. We do not know Him as Lord but acknowledge that fact as we follow Him and gain understanding of ALL He is. In fact, Jesus is not only Lord, He is Lord OF all.

Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ Acts 2:36

Jesus was declared Lord, as in God after His resurrection whereas Lord before, was a term of respect. Either way, only by the indwelling Holy Spirit, can we declare and KNOW Jesus as Lord and our Lord.

 

[Howdy]

I do not believe in works for salvation but rather what Jesus said and explained what "true" works are supposed to be but Again I mention NOT FOR SALVATION!

Jesus made a clear difference between the works He asked for and the works practiced by the Pharisees. The works Jesus called people to were never about earning favor with God by rules. They were actions that flowed from a changed heart. Jesus taught that loving God and loving others is the center of everything.

From that love come real actions. He said that good works should shine so people glorify the Father, not the person doing them (Matthew 5:16, ASV). He taught mercy, saying that the merciful will receive mercy (Matthew 5:7, ASV). He told people to help the poor quietly, without seeking praise, showing that true obedience is humble and hidden (Matthew 6:3, ASV). Jesus connected obedience directly to love when He said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV). He also warned that hearing His words is not enough, because only those who hear and do them are like a wise man who builds on rock (Matthew 7:24, ASV).

When He spoke of us feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and caring for those in need, He said that these acts were done to Him personally (Matthew 25:35–36, ASV). These works do not replace faith. They show that faith is real and alive.

The Pharisees, however, focused on what Jesus exposed as empty works. They did their actions to be seen by others, seeking honor and respect rather than pleasing God (Matthew 23:5, ASV). They placed heavy burdens on people through strict rules but showed little mercy or help themselves (Matthew 23:4, ASV). Jesus said they cleaned the outside but were unclean inside, caring more about appearances than the heart (Matthew 23:25, ASV).
They held tightly to traditions while pushing aside God’s command to love, making God’s word void by their customs (Matthew 15:6, ASV). Their obedience produced pride, as seen in the man who thanked God that he was better than others (Luke 18:11, ASV), instead of humility.

The difference is clear. The works Jesus taught come from faith and love and lead to mercy, obedience, and care for others. The works of the Pharisees were focused on law without love, outward form without inward truth. Jesus did not reject obedience. He rejected obedience without love, mercy and compassion, and He called people to a living faith that obeys God from the heart.

In your first post you said "Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe".
If salvation is not secured the moment a person believes, then when is salvation secured?

 

[vassal]

So you believe in works for salvation.
Sorry fellow, but you cannot earn salvation.
It is a gift of God given to all who by faith believe in Jesus who paid your sin debt on the cross.
Good works are a sign to others that you are saved, not the process of earning God's forgiveness.

I do not believe in works for salvation but rather what Jesus said and explained what "true" works are supposed to be but Again I mention NOT FOR SALVATION!

Jesus made a clear difference between the works He asked for and the works practiced by the Pharisees. The works Jesus called people to were never about earning favor with God by rules. They were actions that flowed from a changed heart. Jesus taught that loving God and loving others is the center of everything.

From that love come real actions. He said that good works should shine so people glorify the Father, not the person doing them (Matthew 5:16, ASV). He taught mercy, saying that the merciful will receive mercy (Matthew 5:7, ASV). He told people to help the poor quietly, without seeking praise, showing that true obedience is humble and hidden (Matthew 6:3, ASV). Jesus connected obedience directly to love when He said, “If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments” (John 14:15, ASV). He also warned that hearing His words is not enough, because only those who hear and do them are like a wise man who builds on rock (Matthew 7:24, ASV).

When He spoke of us feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and caring for those in need, He said that these acts were done to Him personally (Matthew 25:35–36, ASV). These works do not replace faith. They show that faith is real and alive.

The Pharisees, however, focused on what Jesus exposed as empty works. They did their actions to be seen by others, seeking honor and respect rather than pleasing God (Matthew 23:5, ASV). They placed heavy burdens on people through strict rules but showed little mercy or help themselves (Matthew 23:4, ASV). Jesus said they cleaned the outside but were unclean inside, caring more about appearances than the heart (Matthew 23:25, ASV).
They held tightly to traditions while pushing aside God’s command to love, making God’s word void by their customs (Matthew 15:6, ASV). Their obedience produced pride, as seen in the man who thanked God that he was better than others (Luke 18:11, ASV), instead of humility.

The difference is clear. The works Jesus taught come from faith and love and lead to mercy, obedience, and care for others. The works of the Pharisees were focused on law without love, outward form without inward truth. Jesus did not reject obedience. He rejected obedience without love, mercy and compassion, and He called people to a living faith that obeys God from the heart.

How much "true belief" is enough to save and how much "real faith" does one require to show?

It is for God to judge this, he sees the heart and will see what to do but He is merciful and does not want anyone to be lost. in life we all have temptations and trials we need to do our best with what we have if we can, there are no definitive, certain way, but we will be judged by Jesus words as he said.

Now we have a direct access to God and can Ask for help and strength in this life and He will answer, Jesus promised this if we ask in his name. I have witnessed this and tried and true!

 

[pinebeach]

Jesus taught that real faith always shows itself in how a person lives. He said that a good tree is known by its fruit, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit (Matthew 7:17–20, ASV). In other words, if nothing changes, the faith is empty.
Jesus also said that not everyone who calls Him “Lord” will enter the kingdom, but the one who does the will of the Father (Matthew 7:21, ASV). Words and beliefs alone are not enough.
So if faith does not change the way someone lives, loves, forgives, and obeys God, then it is not the kind of faith Jesus spoke about. The faith that gets God’s attention is living faith, faith that listens to Jesus and does what He says.

And this is news somehow? What is it you think we believe here? You deny Paul's letters as authoritive yet we are somehow being subtley led by you and at least 1 other person, to believe you are authoritative. Talk about deception.

Yeah, I'll use the word real here, REAL Christians absolutely have CHANGED LIVES and continue to change as we follow our actual Savior and not the 10 commandments. ALL of us, ALL the time have God's attention. He sent His Son to die while we were yet sinners. For everyone. For God so love the world....not just 'special people' who think they know better than half the NT.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

In your first post you said "Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe".
If salvation is not secured the moment a person believes, then when is salvation secured?

He already provided scripture that shows what kind of belief is acceptable to Jesus. It's not mere head knowledge that just makes Him Savior..

Jesus wants to be Lord of the believer's life too in order to be saved. He must be both or not at all.

 

[vassal]

In your first post you said "Many people believe salvation is secured the moment a person says they believe".
If salvation is not secured the moment a person believes, then when is salvation secured?

according to scripture is not secure, this had been debated for ages there are 2 camps both cannot be right,.

Personally i follow scripture and it absolutely and without a doubt confirms salvation is not secure. Many examples can be found in the bible. the heart makes the difference always.

 

[pinebeach]

I was being subtle. You completely sidestepped Paul's words and didn't even begin to address them.


The subject I raised is not "what kind of belief Jesus meant"... at all. It's what Paul said to the Galatians, who were adding obedience (to selected old covenant statutes) to their faith. Paul clearly called that the wrong response.


You have tried to dismiss Paul's words entirely by misrepresenting them. Nobody is saying that belief cancels obedience or endurance. Paul didn't say that either.

Paul did say that outward physical obedience to the Law was an inappropriate addition to faith.


Who said it was "faith versus works"? Paul didn't say that. I didn't say that.

Over and over again. It was a little more subtle at first, but after testing the waters for about a year now, he is stepping it up. He denies Paul as authoritative and says even Peter found Paul difficult to understand; leading one to believe, hopefully, that we are too dumb to even try.

That conveniently leaves out the masterpiece letter to the Romans. The fact that Paul is acknowledged by the disciples of Jesus in the book of Acts seems over his head.

 

[Dino246]

I do not believe in works for salvation but rather what Jesus said and explained what "true" works are supposed to be but Again I mention NOT FOR SALVATION!

You still have not dealt with Paul's message to the Galatians.

"I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Verse 3 is for YOU, @vassal, and everyone else who is advocating outward adherence to the Mosaic law. Are YOU so foolish?

 

[Howdy]

according to scripture is not secure, this had been debated for ages there are 2 camps both cannot be right,.

Personally i follow scripture and it absolutely and without a doubt confirms salvation is not secure. Many examples can be found in the bible. the heart makes the difference always.

So you believe salvation is not secure and only becomes secure if that believer does certain works.

 

[Dino246]

Over and over again. It was a little more subtle at first, but after testing the waters for about a year now, he is stepping it up. He denies Paul as authoritative and says even Peter found Paul difficult to understand; leading one to believe, hopefully, that we are too dumb to even try.

That conveniently leaves out the masterpiece letter to the Romans. The fact that Paul is acknowledged by the disciples of Jesus in the book of Acts seems over his head.

Agreed. He consistently sidesteps Paul's words. Hence my previous message. ^^^

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

So you believe salvation is not secure and only becomes secure if that believer does certain works.

Did you read the scriptures he provided? Even Jesus said believers must believe Him as their Lord.

 

[pinebeach]

So to be actually saved

One must be born again through the blood of Christ shed on our behalf for the remission of our sins. Jesus is Lord and words do not make Him so.


They will make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will triumph over them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and He will be accompanied by His called and chosen and faithful ones. Rev. 17:14

And He was given dominion, glory, and kingship, that the people of every nation and language should serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and His kingdom is one that will never be destroyed. Daniel 7:14

9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil. 2: 9-11

God exalted Jesus to His own glory. By all means confess Who He is now, but don't think you make it so. He is.

 

[vassal]

Over and over again. It was a little more subtle at first, but after testing the waters for about a year now, he is stepping it up. He denies Paul as authoritative and says even Peter found Paul difficult to understand; leading one to believe, hopefully, that we are too dumb to even try.

That conveniently leaves out the masterpiece letter to the Romans. The fact that Paul is acknowledged by the disciples of Jesus in the book of Acts seems over his head.

you accuse me unjustly.