The book of Job

[ZNP]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

 

[ZNP]

Now some people teach that Job refers to Jesus Christ. That would fit perfectly. No doubt. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins, to redeem us. That is righteous judgement, we sinned, a price had to be paid, we couldn't pay it, but nothing prohibits Jesus from paying it for us. So His suffering was righteous judgement, not because He had sinned, but because He was paying the price for those who had sinned.

The problem is that it doesn't explain why believers would also go through that kind of suffering. There are many Christians who have gone through terrible suffering whether a disease, or loss of a child, losing their job, their home, etc.

So on the one hand you can certainly explain this by saying that Jesus is Job. But what if a redeemed, born again believer also endures terrible suffering. How would you explain that?

 

[Suze]

Now some people teach that Job refers to Jesus Christ. That would fit perfectly. No doubt. Jesus died on the cross to pay for our sins, to redeem us. That is righteous judgement, we sinned, a price had to be paid, we couldn't pay it, but nothing prohibits Jesus from paying it for us. So His suffering was righteous judgement, not because He had sinned, but because He was paying the price for those who had sinned.

The problem is that it doesn't explain why believers would also go through that kind of suffering. There are many Christians who have gone through terrible suffering whether a disease, or loss of a child, losing their job, their home, etc.

So on the one hand you can certainly explain this by saying that Jesus is Job. But what if a redeemed, born again believer also endures terrible suffering. How would you explain that?

We r moulded by our sufferings . We all need to learn how to b more like Jesus . Jesus was made perfect through his sufferings Hebrews chapter 2 verses 9 through to the end of that chapter .
What were Jesus's temptations ? The biggest of them all I think , would have been to use his powers in ways that would have elevated his own position at the expense of God's glory . Think of Moses in the wilderness , Numbers chapter 20 verses 1 to 13 , compare with Matthew chapter 27 verses 39 to 44 and Mark chapter 15 verses 29 to 32 . That must have been tempting to Jesus , he could have done it , he could have come down from that cross and made a spectacular miracle that would maybe have converted so many people but , that's not what God wanted him to do . God wanted Jesus to obey Him , even to the point of Jesus suffering an extremely unpleasant death . That's what God wants from us , obedience , submission and trust . That's what Jesus did , he obeyed , submitted and trusted God , all through his life , right up to his death . Jesus is our example , we must try our very best to follow his example and , when we fail ( because we all will ) , the fact that Jesus didn't fail , will cover our sins and hide them from God's eyes . Our sufferings can b extremely difficult to bear , but we r not alone . Through Jesus , God is with us . We must , just as Jesus did , trust in God enough , so that even when we r tempted to take the easy way out , find a way to end our suffering , we don't . We bear the pain and indignity of being reviled for our faithful adherence to God and what we know He expects from us . We must obey and submit to God's Will for us , having faith , trusting , in God's power to bring us back , from the sufferings of this life , into the glory of the next , with God , through Christ , our Sinless Redeemer . Amen .
Wait upon the Lord , if u have a concordance , look up how many times we r instructed to : wait upon the Lord .

 

[Gideon300]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

Job opened the door to an attack from Satan. "The thing I greatly feared has come upon me". Job also depended on his own righteousness to protect him.

Jeremiah tells us that our own righteousness is filthy rags to God. While Job was the most righteous in human terms, he did not compare to God. Job challenged God to come down and explain Himself. God did indeed come down, but His "explanation" was, "Job, I am God and you are not."

Keep in mind that most scholars believe Job to be the oldest book in the Bible. Job surely predates Israel. There is no mention of the Law or any covenant.

As we read in Romans 8:28 God works all things out for the good of those who love Him. Job declared that formerly he knew about God. After the encounter with God, he knew God. And that is the definition of eternal life. (John 17:3)

About 5 years after I was saved, everything was going well. I was bothered by this. That shows you how stupid I can be. I asked God to show me where I was at spiritually. Bad idea. I lost my job, money was tight and I was embarrassed to go to church. I was the only one judging myself.

Several years later, I was in a difficult situation. I needed immediate help. I had a nudge in my spirit to pray, "Do not lead me into temptation but deliver me from evil". Only minutes later, help arrived.

The word "temptation" can also be translated as "trial". We will have trials, that's inevitable. But we do not need to ask God to make them harder!

 

[4urenlightment]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

We all must be tested to see are weaknesses. That's what book of Job is about.
Even Jesus was tested in the wilderness, and He was showing to us that we must go through.
We mature while we're suffering. like the longer you leave gold in the fire the purer it becomes.

Romans 5:3
Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;

Isaiah 45:9
“Woe to those who quarrel with their Maker, those who are nothing but potsherds among the potsherds on the ground. Does the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you making?’ Does your work say, ‘The potter has no hands’?

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Luke 9:23
Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

 

[tablet123]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Satan can still tempt us and in the case of Paul afflict us.

But I would say it might not be too many being afflicted physically.

God would of not allowed Satan to afflict Job if he did not say he was protected but if afflicted he would curse God.

So God allowed Satan to afflict him but not touch his life.

Which seems like God knew Job would not curse Him and wanted to prove it to Satan.

Also God did not allow Satan to touch Job's wife which he was blessed with children later on.

Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.

Also Job's children were godly and Job offered sacrifices for his whole family so when Job's children perished as part of the affliction they were alright in the afterlife.

Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
Job 42:13 He had also seven sons and three daughters.

And after the trial Job was blessed more in substance and got the same amount of children and genders back.

1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

Job is not the only one.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
2Co 6:5 In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;
2Co 6:6 By pureness, by knowledge, by longsuffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,
2Co 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
2Co 6:8 By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;
2Co 6:9 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;
2Co 6:10 As sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.

Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Sometimes we can go through afflictions which God allows for a purpose to try our faith and show the world we will not deny our faith hopefully causing them to investigate what the saints believe that they would suffer for what they believe.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure.

Joh 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

And in general the world will be wicked as the world will be wicked even afflicting each other with the truth that the saints will be alright regardless of what happens to them for they have eternal life which is what really matters.

Job was alright even if he lost his life but God would not let that happen to show Job He is there for him increasing Job's faith and dedication to God.

And his wife untouched and his children that perished receiving eternal life.

Since Job was a righteous man and hated evil and sacrificed for his children if his children were not in a good standing with God then I do not believe that He would of allowed his children to die in hopes it could be corrected.

 

[Levib]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

The scripture you quoted is your first clue. Did God say Job was perfect? If so, why would Jesus (God), say “no one is good, no not one”. Then later in Job, God reveals Job is deeply prideful. Did God say “Job is perfect”?

Two important things about the book of Job, 1 it was likely authored by Job. 2 it is clearly written in a cliche story-telling way. Beginning - Job thinks he’s perfect, Middle - Job thinks God is doing evil to him (or allowing evil to be done to him. - same thing), Ending - God shows Job he isn’t perfect.

For example, it says his wife and friends tell him repeatedly to curse God and die. It is not reasonable to think this was the actual conversations they had because no caring person would offer that advice. However, I think that is how Job perceived their attempts at helping him during that time in the story.

 

[kinda]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.


How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

The book of Job wouldn't mean a whole lot without the trials, or would it? Probably same goes with this life we live. If we always lived in heaven, we wouldn't appreciate it as much, after the resurrection.

It probably makes more sense to God, than us. lol. I mean who wants to wear a gold ring, that isn't purified, heated, and shaped to perfection?!?! When you goto a jewelry store they are all polished and shiny.

God's ways are above our ways. Is that to much of a cliche? It's Biblical, so hopefully that's good enough of an answer.

 

[homwardbound]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

For me, I see from the entire read of the book of Job
Job, would not deny God or blame God for any troubles, seeing Job 2:10, especially
God told Satan that Job was reckoned righteous in Job's belief to God
Satan denied and said to God, if you remove that hedge you have around Job, then Job will curse you!
Job even had to deal with worldly religious Counselors too. That continued to say to Job, God was punishing Job over sin.
NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God disciplines, God, does not punish, no need, people do that to themselves and to others also.

I love the last Chapter, are we ready to go through troubles too and not deny God either. Lets go deeper, Jesus went willingly all the way to death, that no one understood. Until after risen Acts 1:1-5
Seriously, God does just love us all and has not stopped since the first Adam's fall
Jeremiah 29:11

 

[christophernyc]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

Good question!!!

 

[christophernyc]

The scripture you quoted is your first clue. Did God say Job was perfect? If so, why would Jesus (God), say “no one is good, no not one”. Then later in Job, God reveals Job is deeply prideful. Did God say “Job is perfect”?

Two important things about the book of Job, 1 it was likely authored by Job. 2 it is clearly written in a cliche story-telling way. Beginning - Job thinks he’s perfect, Middle - Job thinks God is doing evil to him (or allowing evil to be done to him. - same thing), Ending - God shows Job he isn’t perfect.

For example, it says his wife and friends tell him repeatedly to curse God and die. It is not reasonable to think this was the actual conversations they had because no caring person would offer that advice. However, I think that is how Job perceived their attempts at helping him during that time in the story.

Some of the details recounted from the story in this answer don't match up.

1. Can you provide the verse where God says Job is prideful?

2. Job thinks he is perfect? Does he say that? If not, how can you know he thinks this?

3. There is one reference when Job's wife tells him to curse God and die. She says it once. Where do you read that his wife and friends "repeatedly" tell Job this? Actually, his friends repeatedly tell him to repent, turn to God and confess his sin. (They are wrong of course because Job is not suffering because he committed a sin as we know from chapters 1 & 2.)

4. Job 42:11 (KJV) Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

Who does it say brought the evil on Job?

 

[lrs68]

Peter wrote for anyone suffering and being persecuted by going through trials to be joyful and count it as a blessing.

One time after surviving a trial I looked back and noticed how happy I was in a struggling moment when something happened that I praised God for.

The odd thing is if I wasn't suffering and in the midst of a trial and was on the mountain top when this thing happened I wouldn't have given God the Glory and Praise I did.

But during that moment when nothing was going my way, no end of the trial in sight, and hopelessness loomed heavily that little insignificant minute thing that happened literally felt like I won a 200 million dollar Powerball.

I definitely learned to start looking at all things differently and giving God the Blessing and Glory He deserves. But it took knocking me down to open my eyes to the type of things I was normally missing. And I thank God Almighty for that.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

Nowhere in Psalm 91 or Deuteronomy 28 is there a promise that the believer shall not suffer in this lifetime.

What is promised is that when we go through trying times, we do not have to be anxious or frightened or think we have to provide for ourselves.

Psalm 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day

clearly there is "terror by night" and "the arrow that flies by day" ... we can feel or see these things in the natural world in which we live and we can be led away from our habitation in the Lord Jesus Christ ... the secret place of the Most High (Psalm 91:1) ... or we can trust in His provision for us and remain in the covering of His feathers ... under His wings (Psalm 91:4).

The same truth is revealed in Deuteronomy 28 ... in vs 7 we are told there are enemies that shall rise up ... however, in Deuteronomy the promises are made to the nation of Israel.

I believe Psalm 91 is addressed to individual believers who place their trust in God ... those who abide (remain) under the shadow of the Almighty (Psalm 91:1).

In our day and time, we are to remain steadfast and unmovable in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abide (remain) in Him (John 15) no matter what is going on around us.

God has indicated many, many times in Scripture that the believer shall face trials, tribulations and afflictions. And God has also promised that He will lead us through whatever we are facing. We are to draw near to God and He will draw near to us:

James 4:7-10

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Draw near to God ... He will draw near to you ... then we have all we need to resist the devil. The devil will flee ... and God does not tell us how long we have to resist before the devil flees. While we are resisting, we mourn, we may be brought to tears, we may sorrow. Once the devil flees, the Lord will lift us up out of the muck and mire.

When we go through trying times, we can mourn but still have peace in our hearts because we have the Prince of peace in us ... we can sorrow and be long suffering (which means to endure, persevere) ... we can relieve all anxiety by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving and God's peace shall guard our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus (Phil 4:6-8). Every promise of God is yea and amen in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abide in Him ... we are to remain in Him ... not just visit Him when times are tough ... we are to share all our joys as well as our sorrows with Him.

.

 

[tttallison]

There were many theories on why Job suffered the things he suffered. God rebuked several of the people with the opinions.

However, in this thread I would like to look at what the rest of the Bible says to figure out what God's role was and why this happened.

1. God is omniscient. The book of Job makes it clear that He knew what Satan was planning to do.

2. God is omnipotent. The book of Job makes it clear that God allowed it to happen.

If you deny that God is omniscient then that is considered Blasphemy. If you deny that God is omnipotent that also is blasphemy.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

So that has to be part of your explanation, it can't contradict what God says here because God cannot lie.

Now we have promises from God in Psalm 91 and Deuteronomy 28 to protect us from evil. That is a covenant that we have with God.

How can you reconcile the covenant and promises we have with God with what happened? By all means use your own personal experiences if that helps explain this.

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

Is it your premise that the above statement is declaring that Job is saved at this point?

 

[ZNP]

3. God said this about Job: "8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?"

Is it your premise that the above statement is declaring that Job is saved at this point?

If you define "saved" as referring to being born again after Jesus' death and resurrection then that would be stupid.

However, I see Job as being a very generic character for those who belong to God and yet go through suffering.

Some teach that he is a shadow and type of Jesus Christ.

Others teach that he is a shadow and type of Israel.

I think he is far more inclusive a wide ranging of a type and shadow than simply Israel because all the things that Israel went through were a type and shadow of the things the church and Christians go through.

Asking if he was saved is like asking if the Israelites that ate the Passover in Egypt were saved, or if the Israelites that crossed the Red Sea were saved, or if the Israelites that died in the wilderness were saved, etc.

 

[ZNP]

Nowhere in Psalm 91 or Deuteronomy 28 is there a promise that the believer shall not suffer in this lifetime.

What is promised is that when we go through trying times, we do not have to be anxious or frightened or think we have to provide for ourselves.

Psalm 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day

clearly there is "terror by night" and "the arrow that flies by day" ... we can feel or see these things in the natural world in which we live and we can be led away from our habitation in the Lord Jesus Christ ... the secret place of the Most High (Psalm 91:1) ... or we can trust in His provision for us and remain in the covering of His feathers ... under His wings (Psalm 91:4).

The same truth is revealed in Deuteronomy 28 ... in vs 7 we are told there are enemies that shall rise up ... however, in Deuteronomy the promises are made to the nation of Israel.

I believe Psalm 91 is addressed to individual believers who place their trust in God ... those who abide (remain) under the shadow of the Almighty (Psalm 91:1).

In our day and time, we are to remain steadfast and unmovable in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abide (remain) in Him (John 15) no matter what is going on around us.

God has indicated many, many times in Scripture that the believer shall face trials, tribulations and afflictions. And God has also promised that He will lead us through whatever we are facing. We are to draw near to God and He will draw near to us:

James 4:7-10

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

9 Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness.

10 Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

Draw near to God ... He will draw near to you ... then we have all we need to resist the devil. The devil will flee ... and God does not tell us how long we have to resist before the devil flees. While we are resisting, we mourn, we may be brought to tears, we may sorrow. Once the devil flees, the Lord will lift us up out of the muck and mire.

When we go through trying times, we can mourn but still have peace in our hearts because we have the Prince of peace in us ... we can sorrow and be long suffering (which means to endure, persevere) ... we can relieve all anxiety by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving and God's peace shall guard our hearts and minds through Christ Jesus (Phil 4:6-8). Every promise of God is yea and amen in the Lord Jesus Christ. Abide in Him ... we are to remain in Him ... not just visit Him when times are tough ... we are to share all our joys as well as our sorrows with Him.

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The point that the book of Job makes which is undeniable is that Job suffered everything he suffered because God allowed it and as a result he grew and matured in his faith.

However, it is very generic, very vague as to why God allows Job to suffer. There are a hundred valid interpretations because I believe Job is here as a type and shadow and pointing us to God. If you are suffering it is a waste of time to debate over whether or not you sinned. As believers, if your conscience convicts you of sin then you must confess, repent, and take the blood of Jesus. The issue is that we should go to God, realizing that He is omnipotent and omniscient, that nothing happens to us without the Lord allowing it, and therefore we are to ask Him why He allowed it.

We are not supposed to just suffer like an ascetic monk, we are to seek the Lord to find out why we are suffering. Jesus was crystal clear why He was suffering and it wasn't for His sins, it was for ours. Also we are not supposed to languish in jail like a criminal. Jesus spent three days in the grave and then rose in triumph. Paul was in prison but that is where he wrote the New Testament prison letters. That ministry was a triumphant ministry. He was taken to Rome as a common criminal but by the time they arrived in Rome everyone with him owed him their lives.

In the New Testament some Christians suffer because they are self righteous. That can be another reason for people to suffer. Pride goes before a fall. The seven churches all, every single one, points to the church suffering. To one church they are warned that they have left their first love. To another they are told this will only last for ten days and then they will get a crown. To another they are told that they are suffering that woman Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess to teach the believers to commit fornication and idolatry. Sardis is told to repent and go back to digging into the word as they did at the first. Philadelphia is told they will no longer have to go out anymore, being excommunicated like the leaders of Sardis did to some in blotting their names out, or being persecuted like Antipas was by "fellow believers" is the suffering they went through for speaking the truth. But in every case there is a purpose to those who love God for this suffering and it will work out for good if you love God and are called according to purpose.

 

[tttallison]

If you define "saved" as referring to being born again after Jesus' death and resurrection then that would be stupid.

However, I see Job as being a very generic character for those who belong to God and yet go through suffering.

Some teach that he is a shadow and type of Jesus Christ.

Others teach that he is a shadow and type of Israel.

I think he is far more inclusive a wide ranging of a type and shadow than simply Israel because all the things that Israel went through were a type and shadow of the things the church and Christians go through.

Asking if he was saved is like asking if the Israelites that ate the Passover in Egypt were saved, or if the Israelites that crossed the Red Sea were saved, or if the Israelites that died in the wilderness were saved, etc.

Was Abraham saved, or is that some future event for him?

 

[tttallison]

Was Abraham saved, or is that some future event for him?

My problem with Job in the beginning of the story is that Job declared his righteousness to be greater than God's.

Job said God was unjust in that he was afflicting him without cause.

Job said he did not want God to be his judge and that he wanted a man to judge him.

Job's reasoning was that God would not be fair. That God would laugh at the trial of the innocence. That God would blind the eyes of the judges.

Job said who is God, and where is he.

God sent Elihu to sit in his place as Job's mediator.

Elihu said to Job, "I am according to thy wish in God's place. Job 33:6

 

[homwardbound]

My problem with Job in the beginning of the story is that Job declared his righteousness to be greater than God's.

Job said God was unjust in that he was afflicting him without cause.

Job said he did not want God to be his judge and that he wanted a man to judge him.

Job's reasoning was that God would not be fair. That God would laugh at the trial of the innocence. That God would blind the eyes of the judges.

Job said who is God, and where is he.

God sent Elihu to sit in his place as Job's mediator.

Elihu said to Job, "I am according to thy wish in God's place. Job 33:6

I read, read Job would not deny God.
Job I see did not and even told his wife to curse God and die, he will not
Job 1:22

Job 1:22

Authorized (King James) Version

22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.


Job 2:10

Authorized (King James) Version



10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.

God, called Job righteous, who. eschewed evil. Yet, Satan told God Job exalts God, because God has a hedge around Job. If God removes that hedge, then Job would curse God.

That did not happen. yet, I do see a little pride entered Job over those worldly counselors who said to Job, that Gods was punishing Job over sin.
Then God intervened around Chapter 34 Did you make the whittling, the crocodile
I ,love the last Chapter
Thanks

 

[reneweddaybyday]

The point that the book of Job makes which is undeniable is that Job suffered everything he suffered because God allowed it and as a result he grew and matured in his faith.

yes, Job went through his time of suffering affliction and at the end Job was able to say I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee (Job 42:5).

However, it is very generic, very vague as to why God allows Job to suffer. There are a hundred valid interpretations because I believe Job is here as a type and shadow and pointing us to God. If you are suffering it is a waste of time to debate over whether or not you sinned. As believers, if your conscience convicts you of sin then you must confess, repent, and take the blood of Jesus. The issue is that we should go to God, realizing that He is omnipotent and omniscient, that nothing happens to us without the Lord allowing it, and therefore we are to ask Him why He allowed it.

Why Job suffered was vague to Job and his friends, but we know why he suffered ... so went satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job (Job 2:7). We can look back on writings in Scripture and God reveals some of the why's and wherefores of circumstances which took place.

Sometimes the afflictions we suffer are the result of our own actions and we are enduring the chastening of the Father ... other times our suffering affliction has nothing to do with any sin on our part. We need to get to the point where we are like Paul when he said ...

Philippians 4:11-13

11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

12 I know both how to be abased, and I know how to abound: every where and in all things I am instructed both to be full and to be hungry, both to abound and to suffer need.

13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


... or Peter when he said ...

1 Peter 4:12-16

12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

We are not supposed to just suffer like an ascetic monk, we are to seek the Lord to find out why we are suffering. Jesus was crystal clear why He was suffering and it wasn't for His sins, it was for ours. Also we are not supposed to languish in jail like a criminal. Jesus spent three days in the grave and then rose in triumph. Paul was in prison but that is where he wrote the New Testament prison letters. That ministry was a triumphant ministry. He was taken to Rome as a common criminal but by the time they arrived in Rome everyone with him owed him their lives.

We might not ever know why we are suffering until we stand face to face before God and all will be revealed.

Have you ever read the poem "Footprints in the Sand"? We can look back on our lives and see those times when we were led by God ... carried by God ... and I wonder if we even realize the half of it ... the times where we were completely oblivious to what was going on around us.

There is a record in 2 Kings 6 ... the Syrians warred against Israel and Elisha gave warning more than a few times. The king of Syria thought there was a spy among his men, but he was told that Elisha the prophet revealed Syria's plans to the king of Israel. So the king of Syria sent a great host to fetch Elisha. The servant of Elisha was scared when he saw the city encompassed with the Syrian army and went to Elisha. Elisha then prayed for his servant's eyes to be opened ...

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

We are completely oblivious to the spiritual warfare going on around us. What we see in the physical realm is nothing compared to what is going on in the spiritual realm ... we wrestle not against flesh and blood ... we wrestle against spiritual wickedness (Eph 6:12).

In the New Testament some Christians suffer because they are self righteous. That can be another reason for people to suffer. Pride goes before a fall. The seven churches all, every single one, points to the church suffering. To one church they are warned that they have left their first love. To another they are told this will only last for ten days and then they will get a crown. To another they are told that they are suffering that woman Jezebel who calls herself a prophetess to teach the believers to commit fornication and idolatry. Sardis is told to repent and go back to digging into the word as they did at the first. Philadelphia is told they will no longer have to go out anymore, being excommunicated like the leaders of Sardis did to some in blotting their names out, or being persecuted like Antipas was by "fellow believers" is the suffering they went through for speaking the truth. But in every case there is a purpose to those who love God for this suffering and it will work out for good if you love God and are called according to purpose.

yes ... and this holds true all the way back to Genesis. Noah did not know what rain was before he built the ark. All Noah knew was that God was going to bring a flood of waters upon the earth (Gen 6:17). Joseph suffered terribly when his brothers sought to kill him, but decades later Joseph told his brothers ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good (Gen 50:20).

While we are suffering affliction, God is working within us to perfect, establish, strengthen, and settle us (1 Peter 5:10). We are never alone in our struggles ... the Lord Jesus Christ live in us ... in our hearts ... He brings us through ... He shares our burdens so we are able to endure in steadfast faith. We are never alone.

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