I agree with this and it is an important point to understand when considering free will
Refuting the Calvinist’s Denial of Free Will
- Thread starter Jon777
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Nope. All your posts are always like this, quick critique with nothing to interact with, no explanation, no proof, no nothing. All you do is just post passive aggressive remarks as a grown man. You truly are a waste of space on this forum and contribute nothing. This guy is literally worthless. No matter how far back you go, he never gives any arguments for his view, never explains anything, never answers questions. Just makes passive aggressive remarks. Potentially a troll? There is no way a 66 year old man is this much of a punk. Anyhow, to the ignore bin you go, it truly is a waste of time interacting with this "man". I should of known from his post history, but I bit the bait. Unlucky, dont feed the troll guys. Ignore it
If you remember the story of the sower, the results were predicated not on the seed, but on the ground it fell into. The same is always true whether it is the gospel being sown or a commandment. The type of ground always influences the result
If you believe they are free to choose to accept Him or not after being drawn, that would put you in line with most Christians. The "arminian" view as its called.
True it doesn't mattter what kind of seed it is the soil is the deciding factor, and does the soil freely choose what kind of soil it is?
Well I am not sure how or if my understanding lines up with most Christians but it isn't as if I am against free will it is just that it haSs to be placed in the right order of salvation
No and yes.
The Bible says God gives us a new heart, but also tells us to circumcise the foreskin of our heart.
And it is this reason that both calvinism and arminianism exist. They would not exist if both sides had 0 verses to support their view.
There is an undeniable tension in the text, left completely unexplained by the biblical authors. They seem to hold both ideas hand in hand and don't think it contradicts.
We see this all over the Bible, work out your salvation with fear and trembling, God is working in you, don't worry about it, but make sure you stay in the faith, WARNING, ALERT! But don't worry, God will establish you in the faith strong and firm.
That is why it is so frustrating that you got one side parroting the other side of the scriptures, the other one parroting the other side, and explaining away the proof texts of the other side.
This debate will never be solved. If you ever find a way to harmonize these two sides, let me know. You should win a nobel prize for that!
I think the answer is found in that while we all have responsibilities before God, we need God to fulfill those responsibilities. I like that you chose Philippians 2:12-13. Everyone is responsible to work out their own salvation, but this will only come to fruition if God is willing and doing. Jesus Himself said you can do nothing apart from me. If this is true of Christians, wouldn't this also be true of unbelievers?
I do appreciate the tone of our discussion. Very much appreciated.
Proof has been given by many people, many times. You aren't interested. You prefer your strawman. Enjoy.
The gardener is the deciding factor. It's what he does to the soil that determines how the seed gets processed, not the soil itself.
Well the thing is the gardener can plant the seeds yes but the soil has to be able to recieve it so in this way the soil is the deciding factorThe gardener is the deciding factor. It's what he does to the soil that determines how the seed gets processed, not the soil itself.
When you are growing crops the soil is a major factor
No, it's what the gardener does to the soil to prepare it to receive the seeds. Gardeners can break up the soil, remove rocks and weeds, fertilize it, etc. If they don't, they'll end up with the three problematic soils. What Jesus wants is the good soil.
So it's encumbent on the "gardener" - he or she has to cultivate the soil so whren the seeds are planted, the yield is healthy and abundant.
The gardener isn't the soil. People's hearts are the soil. God is the Gardener.No, it's what the gardener does to the soil to prepare it to receive the seeds. Gardeners can break up the soil, remove rocks and weeds, fertilize it, etc. If they don't, they'll end up with the three problematic soils. What Jesus wants is the good soil.
So it's encumbent on the "gardener" - he or she has to cultivate the soil so whren the seeds are planted, the yield is healthy and abundant.
No, He plants seeds, but it's up to us how the plants turn out. That's why if you want the healthy and abundant yield, you must cultivate the soil. Doing nothing to the soil will produce the three problematic soils.
Except in the parable Jesus told he never mentioned the planter of the seeds doing anything to the soil so in this instance the soil was the main factor because some fell on good soil others did not, just going ty the parable the soil was the deciding factor of the seeds being able to growNo, it's what the gardener does to the soil to prepare it to receive the seeds. Gardeners can break up the soil, remove rocks and weeds, fertilize it, etc. If they don't, they'll end up with the three problematic soils. What Jesus wants is the good soil.
So it's encumbent on the "gardener" - he or she has to cultivate the soil so whren the seeds are planted, the yield is healthy and abundant.
That's no different from saying physician, heal thyself.No, He plants seeds, but it's up to us how the plants turn out. That's why if you want the healthy and abundant yield, you must cultivate the soil. Doing nothing to the soil will produce the three problematic soils.
It is also inconsistent with John 15. God is the gardener.
It also negates grace. We end up having to prepare ourselves to be saved.