Saving Faith in Christ is not Faith Alone in Christ

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

You have no idea as to what it means to be saved from sinning.

They NEVER talk about Jesus being their Lord, or about the Holy Spirit who enables obedience and successful resistance to sin and growing to reflect Jesus more and more.

They also never talk about knowing God more and pleasing Him. It is always about them and what they can get out of Jesus.

I don't ever want their influence.

 

[ATG]

Do you understand the difference between having faith alone and being saved by faith alone? I’ll give you a scenario to help you out.

No need. I have the Bible.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Having faith alone is having dead faith.

James{2:14}
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Being saved by faith alone is the wrong answer.

A man jumps into the river with two inflatable rafts. He is about to drown so he inflates one. Now he was saved by that life raft alone. Does it mean he only had one life raft alone? No. The problem is the other one had holes in it and couldn’t be used to save him.

He was saved by the life raft that worked. That other life raft was rubber alone without working.

The truth is that Rubber Alone cannot save any man.

Faith alone doesn’t mean that you only have faith and nothing else.

Then it's not the Faith Alone in the Bible.

If you want to preach another kind of Faith Alone not in the Bible, then you still can't call it faith alone, since it's not alone.

If works is a bad word to you, then you can call it salvation by faith with something else...

It means that only your faith can save you because your works are not perfect whether you think they are or not.

It means your faith cannot save you, because you have no works, being alone.

It also means your Faith Alone cannot justify you, not being made perfect by works.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And finally it means no man's faith can save him, if his works are of the devil.

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

whether you think they are or not.

Whether you believe you are or not.

 

[ATG]

you are acting like a jerk, not a Christian.

So much for being saved by Faith Alone in Christ apart from works...

 

[ATG]

It is becoming and to some of us here for some time now, obvious that the gospel is under attack as never before

It is becoming and to some of us here for some time now, obvious that the gospel of salvation by Faith Alone is under attack as never before by the Scriptures.

and some of the worst actors are people calling themself 'Christian', while offering unbiblical 'deep' knowledge of never before seen 'truths' that are actually deceptions with demonic entities behind them, seducing those who think too much of themselves and therefore open to such 'teachings' and only too eager to pass them along.

Agreed.

2Co 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

And the end of the false apostles is according to their works, not their faith alone.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

I am today.

Mat 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

So you’re saying you’re perfectly unrighteous and always sinning?

Jesus actually told a parable about you and I in Luke 18:9-14. I know your favorite book is James but you may want to branch out.

 

[ATG]

For example, in this post, the author actually and unwittingly, reveals their own problems including the fact they 'love' what they teach.

For example, in this post, the author actually and unwittingly, reveals their own problems including the fact they 'hate' what disagrees with them.

Mocking a person who tries to correct their unbiblical renderings, accusing others of not loving truth (actually meaning their own version of it which, by the very fact it is not true, makes their attachment to it all the worse)

Exactly.

They refuse to discuss preferring instead to brag about their 'practice' of said personal teaching

They refuse to discuss what disagrees with them, preferring instead to act like they are.

Accusing someone of calling them stupid when no such action ocurred (false accusation)

"Your ignorance is shocking. You need to get out more. Another stupid comment. Wrong. Ignorant. Stubborn. Closed-minded. More utter stupidity. I don't know why I bother attempting to have a discussion with you. Clearly you're incapable."

"It can't be because I'm stupid ignorant wrong incomprehensible and irrelevant etc..."

Acknowledging someone of calling them stupid when no such action matters (childish accusation)

Saying to someone who actually points out their error from scripture as 'suffering from willful blindness'; again applicable to the author

"Every time you post, you demonstrate your willful ignorance. What is your problem?

Saying to someone who actually points out their error from scripture as 'suffering from willful ignorance'; again applicable to the author

Apparently thinking children are allowed to respond with insults and name calling

Agreed.

I could go on, but try some discernment and see how many you can find for yourself

You could go on, but try some discernment and see if this 'critique' is one sided.

 

[ATG]

No. Your statement, "You think I'm Jesus Christ" is evidence against your claim that that you are walking in the light and are free of sin.

No. Your statement, "You think I'm Jesus Christ" because I quote His words, is evidence against your claim that you are hearing His words without offense.

These judgemental and accusatory remarks that are based on eroneous assumptions about my beliefs are also evidence that you are not walking in the light and are free of sin.

Agreed.

Although such things are not needed, since it's your own Faith Alone confession, that is evidence against you walking in the light and are free of sin.

It does not appear that you understand that the conditional phrase, "If we say that we have no sin" (1 Jn 1:8) is referring to people who deny that their flesh is corrupt beyond repair.

It does not appear that you understand that the conditional phrase, "If we say that we have no sin" (1 Jn 1:8) is referring to people who deny that they have sin when walking in darkness.

"All things were made by him" is referring to all flesh, that is naturally mortal.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." is referring to souls sin with the flesh, not because of the flesh.

These people have deceived themselves into thinking sin is not present with them against the advice of Scripture (see Romans 7 as one example).

These people have deceived themselves into thinking double heartedness is advice of Scripture (They see Romans 7 as Christian instruction).

It appears that you do not yet know how to distinguish the new man/divine nature/spirit from the old man/human nature/flesh

It appears that you do not yet want to distinguish between the soul that sins, and the flesh that's natural. And so never know how to repent of the old man of sin, in order to become the new man of divine nature.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

because you are falsely accusing people of attributing unrighteousness to the new man/divine nature/spirit and have no consciousness that these things are rightly attributable to the old man/human nature/flesh.

Because you are falsely accusing Scripture of attributing unrighteousness to the natural body, and have no consciousness that these things are rightly attributable only to the soul that sinnneth.

Jhn 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

No need. I have the Bible.

Jas 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Having faith alone is having dead faith.

James{2:14}
What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Being saved by faith alone is the wrong answer.



He was saved by the life raft that worked. That other life raft was rubber alone without working.

The truth is that Rubber Alone cannot save any man.



Then it's not the Faith Alone in the Bible.

If you want to preach another kind of Faith Alone not in the Bible, then you still can't call it faith alone, since it's not alone.

If works is a bad word to you, then you can call it salvation by faith with something else...


It means your faith cannot save you, because you have no works, being alone.

It also means your Faith Alone cannot justify you, not being made perfect by works.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And finally it means no man's faith can save him, if his works are of the devil.

Jas 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.



Whether you believe you are or not.

I see the life raft analogy went over your head. The life raft that saved him had faith written on it and the life raft with the holes had works written on it.

The differences between you and I are these: You do your good works because you believe it’s a requirement for your salvation. I do my good works simply because I love Christ and owe Him my life. You believe your works will save you. I know that even my best works are not good enough for Him and that only my faith can save me. You put your salvation in your own hands. I put my salvation completely in His hands. I do not put my faith in my own works but only in His works.

 

[Dino246]

Why would someone who says he "will sin again" want the blood of Jesus to cleanse him from sin?

.

Answer my question first, and I will answer yours.

 

[ATG]

It is common for people who preach false doctrine to view people who disagree with their doctrine as disagreeing with the Bible. They see their view as being the only correct view and refuse to consider evidence that challenges their view.

This is true. Even when their quoted words directly contradict Jesus' quoted words, some will still refuse the evidence of quoted words.

It is ok with me for you to attack those who adhere to "faith alone", whatever that means.

They also take it personal when their argument is rebuked, as though being personally attacked.

But your accusations that I am one of them and that I use it to justify sin are unfounded and presumptuous.

Now this is fair. Since people with Faith Alone, also quote the same Scripture to say everyone is still sinning, to justify their own, then I did 'presume' you are one of them.

You don't believe in salvation by faith alone without works? You don't believe all Christians are still sinning?

If not, then do you teach the faith of our Lord Jesus, that only does good without evil? Or, do you teach another faith in Christ altogether?

Your judgements reveal a judgemental attitude,

Is your faith nonjudgmental? Is it the same liberal nonjudgmentalism of the world?

There are many free-sex former hippies that brought into Christianity their nonjudgmentalism. Universalists, New Ages, etc...Certain protestants have also given themselves to it, such as Methodists, Episcopalians...

and it would be wise for you to consider that God will measure you by the same measuring stick that you use against others (Matt 7:1-2).

Have I ever excluded myself from the Lord's righteous judgment of our works?

And yet there are those that believe the Lord will measure them respectfully by their Faith Alone stick, and so exclude them from His righteous judgment of their own works.

If you are not one of them, then if you do any evil, are you condemned by the evil work?

As a practical matter, this means that you are more than likely experiencing more of a sense of guiltiness and insecurity than you are heaping on others.

If I were avoiding guilt, and insecure in my faith of Jesus, then I would do as some, who avoid the arguments of others, and just say they are shockingly ignorant, basement dwelling, stupid, wrong, ignorant again, stubborn, closed-minded, and utterly stupid for extra measure. And of course just plain old incapable. Or, in so many words.

I could find the actual quote of the intelligent, stunningly patient, mild-mannered, objective and grown up reasonable expounder of their darling Faith Alone, if you like.

It's actually saying the opposite. Walking in the light is what iluminates our understanding that we continue to be wholey dependent on God's mercy for the sinfulness of the flesh and that we receive it when we acknowledge the sins and sinfulness that come from our flesh.

So, Walking is not doing, but only being? Like only believing, without doing. The illumati within, if not without? The soul is illumined, but the body is dark? The soul walks in the light, while the body walks in darkness? Walking in the light in spirit, if not in deed and in truth?

1Jo 2:6
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The Christian illuminati walk as Jesus walked by being like Jesus on the inside, while doing like the world on the outside? If it just wasn't for that bad old sinful body, that's to blame for not being and doing like Jesus?

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Your objection to faith alone seems to be rejection of salvation by grace through faith in favor of salvation by works of righteousness which must be done.

Saying 'seems' does not sufficiently cloak your purposed misrepresentation of my objection to Faith Alone.

It is hard to understand why anyone would adopt that standard for themselves unless they are deceived about their own sins.

[/QUOTE]

It is hard to understand why anyone would adopt that standard of misrepresentation for themselves, unless they are personally offended about their own faith alone being challenged.

 

[pinebeach]

For example, in this post, the author actually and unwittingly, reveals their own problems including the fact they 'hate' what disagrees with them.

A false accusation per usual. Go tell it to your vast and appreciative audience. That should take you all of 30 seconds.

They refuse to discuss what disagrees with them, preferring instead to act like they are.

That is exactly what you do as can be seen from your responses to other posters. You don't deserve answers from people here who have tried to help you.

 

[pinebeach]

They NEVER talk about Jesus being their Lord, or about the Holy Spirit who enables obedience and successful resistance to sin and growing to reflect Jesus more and more.

They also never talk about knowing God more and pleasing Him. It is always about them and what they can get out of Jesus.

I don't ever want their influence.

Right. And we also don't go around with some ridiculous female warrior token in the hopes people see that as us. If you don't waant 'their' influenece, then why are you often shadowing some of us? You are as false as the picture you present as yourself.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Right. And we also don't go around with some ridiculous female warrior token in the hopes people see that as us. If you don't waant 'their' influenece, then why are you often shadowing some of us? You are as false as the picture you present as yourself.

You act like I'm suppose to care about you opinion.

 

[Gideon300]

You have no idea as to what it means to be saved from sinning.

You will account to God for that ignorant and unwarranted remark.

 

[Dino246]

It is hard to understand why anyone would adopt that standard of misrepresentation for themselves, unless they are personally offended about their own faith alone being challenged.

It is hard to understand why you continue to misrepresent “faith alone”, continue to rail against your misinterpretation, and then have the audacity to complain about others who misinterpret ideas.

 

[Gideon300]

It is hard to understand why you continue to misrepresent “faith alone”, continue to rail against your misinterpretation, and then have the audacity to complain about others who misinterpret ideas.

I note that there is never a mention of grace.

 

[pinebeach]

Why would someone who "has no sin in him at all" need the blood of Jesus to cleanse him from sin?

A little understanding with no knowledge does not, after all, go very far it would seem.

 

[pinebeach]

They also take it personal when their argument is rebuked, as though being personally attacked.

The irony here surpasses creduality. Mirror mirror on the wall.

 

[pinebeach]

You act like I'm suppose to care about you opinion.

Do I? How long have you deluded yourself into believing you read minds? You have no concept of what my opinion is or how I view your caustic and anything but Christian comments. The words you attribute in your judgement are probably reflections on your own sins.

I have no idea how you have become so spiteful and nasty to others. You were not like that before you joined up with mr 10 commandments. You also seem to have a sketchy relationship with the truth. You actually do want to appear perfect and able to judge others or you would not be doing so. Your will against others who challenge yours and others misguided opinions in this forum is palatable. And that's saying alot.

I refer to the false statements below for which you are accountable. There is no truth in your judgements here. I know I post about Jesus every day if I am using the forum. Anyone who has had any exchange with me knows that. You know that too since you used to like almost all my posts. That has all changed though since you seem to have decided you are living a sinless life by following the 'new covenant through the 10 commandments'.

Why do you deliberately choose to post things that are not true? Anyone who disagrees with your sinless stance never talks about Jesus? Or about the Holy Spirit? We never talk about God or following Him? We only talk about oursevles and we only use Jesus for 'things'?

Those remarks are tripe and do not come from a good place. You sound angry and vengeful and no matter how hard you try, no one here believes those false claims about myself or any other person who tries to correct the nonsensical and damaging philosophy of your new teacher. I have noticed how you checked out the last 2 threads I created. You are not fooling anyone.

It seems you just cannot resist the effort to try and disparage others who understand the attack against the gospel being made by your mentor and you have to, simply have to, act out and from a page in a forum, attack and spew false things because of your feelings.

They NEVER talk about Jesus being their Lord, or about the Holy Spirit who enables obedience and successful resistance to sin and growing to reflect Jesus more and more.

They also never talk about knowing God more and pleasing Him. It is always about them and what they can get out of Jesus.

I don't ever want their influence.

Perhaps, but you certainly are being influenced. I'm putting you on ignore. As I said, your desire to hurt is palatable and I want no part in it nor do I wish it actually hits your intended targets.

 

[pinebeach]

This is true. Even when their quoted words directly contradict Jesus' quoted words, some will still refuse the evidence of quoted words.

The problem being that you do not have the understanding of those words, and others, or the comprehension either. You do have a very good sense of contradiction however which underscores your belief that you are never wrong.