The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?
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His disciples plucked the corn. He himself made clay to anoint the blind mans eyes. He allowed His disciples to do this, and endorsed it. He made the clay intentionally on the Sabbath. Just as He did the work of healing for the man with the withered hand on Sabbath and in the synagogue.
Clear violations of the letter of the law. Absolutely no way around it.
Well that explains a lot. The SDA is a non christian cult. But you do have some really great teachers. Weird huh?
How do I know this to be true? Let me tell everyone here a little story about my dealings with the SDA. By the way, I actually agree with the SDA about Saturday being the Sabbath and that it was never changed. Sunday is the Lords Day. But if one feels led to keep the Sabbath, they should do so in Saturday.
My wife signed up for a bible study course through the SDA that was advertised during one of Doug Bachelor's sermons. I always had a great deal of respect for Pastor Doug, consider him to be a fine expositor of Gods word, and watched him with the wife from time to time. So I saw no problem with my wife taking the classes.
The classes went on for a year, at the end of which time she received a nice certificate and some additional publications. It was in the final class or in one of those additional publications, I cannot recall which, where the SDA's finally revealed themselves.
I wish I had kept the evidence, but I tossed it in the trash with everything else. In this publication I read with my own eyes that the position of the SDA church is that they are Gods only true church on earth, that salvation cannot be found outside of their organization. I have since read many other damning truths about the organization, but I wont share them here.
Before anyone accuses me of slandering my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, go and verify for yourself if I am speaking the truth or not. The SDA go to great lengths to look like a mainstream christian church, they are not. They hide their true beliefs from those who study with them in good faith, which is dishonesty. No liar shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.
If you are not SDA, they do not consider you to be worthy of Christ.
You've been warned.
As for you Mr SDA man. I would tell you what you can do with your false prophetess and her Great Controversy, but that wouldn't be kind of me. Use your imagination.
Baloney. Faithful people of God have been worshiping on Sundays for hundreds of years. If it were not for Martin Luther, who worshiped on Sunday, you promoters of dead religious legalism would have been burned at the stake as heretics. If you want to stick to Saturday, fine. Live in your own little religious bubble. Meanwhile, Sunday believers have been spreading the gospel around the world, some of whom have given their lives for the gospel. Your condemnation of those believers is an insult to the Spirit of grace.
That's the problem the religious have. They do not know what it means to observe the Sabbath. Can you turn on a light switch or is that work? One Rabbi says that you can't clip your fingernails on the Sabbath. While they are arguing about what day of the week to worship, true believers are dying for the sake of the gospel.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Paul said we would not have to even know of biblical law to show the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written in our hearts, obviously by the way we act.
When I reached puberty as a young teenager, I would often hear it said ‘’You must obey the TC’’ and whenever I heard that, my thoughts immediately turned inward to my impure thoughts and I felt immense guilt. I did not know then, through reading the wording of the TC they covered impure thoughts/lust, so I instinctively knew, for the law was in my most inward parts. So, where the tenth commandment was concerned, I knew what it entailed in obeying it, without knowledge through reading law written in ink.
Many today who insist you must obey the TC do not know what I did then concerning the tenth commandment, I know because of conversations I’ve had with such people on the internet
U
Undergrace1
Guest
'Our righteousness is as filthy rags''
Well put, which shows how far we fail to obey the standard the law sets.
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements(not some of the requirements) of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) Rom2:14&15
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I WILL put my laws in their hearts,
and I WILL write them on their minds.”[b]
17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”[c]
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. Heb10:15-18
If God says HE WILL do it, he can be relied upon to do it
U
Undergrace1
Guest
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.Col2:16&17
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind Rom14:5
He also believes the levitical unclean food laws are still in effect:
I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean Rom14:14
Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. ALL(ALL) food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. verse20
I knew some things were wrong, like when I shoplifted. However, I had no idea what the Sabbath was, no concept of loving God, avoided my neighbour as much as possible and most certainly did not love myself. I knew that it was wrong to murder and commit adultery. I did not know what it meant to covet. So yes, we have some knowledge of the moral law of God. Every culture knows that it is wrong to murder or steal. Everyone has a conscience that accuses or acquits them.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
As you have mentioned the denomination. I went to an sda church for a while to please a friend. I honestly went with an open mind, the only thing I then knew about the church was they worshipped on a Saturday, no big deal I thought bearing in mind Rom14:5
It was relentlessly preached ''you must obey the TC''
Speaking with complete honesty. I saw more flagrant transgressions of the TC in that church than any church I had ever been to in over forty years on a Sunday. Much of the time they did not even have consciousness they were transgressing the commands they insisted must be obeyed.
It is easy to say you must obey the TC if you have no consciousness of sin much of the time when you transgress them.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
When I got saved, the really noticeable difference about me was, I became aware of my imperfections in a real and profound way. I got angry at times(as kids and adults do, and I was only ten) I didn't love others as I should, and I told fibs, and many other things too, and I started to feel really bad about my imperfections. They became a weight to me. Then I reached puberty and my problems magnified out of all recognition, for along came impure thoughts. Speaking for myself, I did not feel bad about these things because of any law written in the bible, or TC, I did not have to think of any of them to regret my thoughts, I just instinctively knew they were wrong, in my heart and mind
If you search Bible Hub for "there is no law," three verses are offered for review
Romans 4:15
because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Galatians 5:23
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
The times that Jesus "broke the law," He was acting in a capacity as "above the law" as the works he did was not in refraining from the lusts of the flesh but rather an indulgence in the fruit of the spirit, which of such things there is no law against.
This makes me wonder if it is more than assumption to consider a law as necessarily set 'against' a thing even if it all appearances of it may seem to be 'for' something. For instance, the speed limit at first glance appears to be for 55mph, until you break it, of course, and then it becomes clear that it is set against driving 65mph. But, on the other hand, there is no law against any degree of gentleness or self-control...
So, if one puts all their focus on not coveting your neighbor's wife, since there is a law against it, does that relieve one of the burdens of loving thy neighbor?
Romans 4:15
because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Galatians 5:23
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
The times that Jesus "broke the law," He was acting in a capacity as "above the law" as the works he did was not in refraining from the lusts of the flesh but rather an indulgence in the fruit of the spirit, which of such things there is no law against.
This makes me wonder if it is more than assumption to consider a law as necessarily set 'against' a thing even if it all appearances of it may seem to be 'for' something. For instance, the speed limit at first glance appears to be for 55mph, until you break it, of course, and then it becomes clear that it is set against driving 65mph. But, on the other hand, there is no law against any degree of gentleness or self-control...
So, if one puts all their focus on not coveting your neighbor's wife, since there is a law against it, does that relieve one of the burdens of loving thy neighbor?
Here is Scripture where Sabbath law is viewed as Levitical rather than moral.
Matt. 5:17-20 – Jesus said that he came to fulfill the Law and that righteousness must surpass that of the Pharisees, who observed the Levitical laws (cf. Acts 22:2-3 & 26:4-5).
Matt. 12:1-8 – The disciples did what was unlawful on the Sabbath, but Jesus said the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.
Matt. 12:12-14/Mark 3:4-6 – Jesus said that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and healed a man, which prompted the Pharisees to plot to kill him for breaking the Sabbath.
Luke 13:10-17 – On a Sabbath Jesus broke Sabbath law by healing a crippled woman, which made the synagogue ruler indignant, so Jesus rebuked him for hypocrisy.
Luke 14:1-6 – While dining with a prominent Pharisee Jesus saw a sick man and healed him from dropsy, noting that an animal which had fallen in a well would have been pulled out with no objection.
John 5:1-18 – Jesus healed a paralyzed man on the Sabbath, so the Jews persecuted him for breaking the Sabbath law.
John 9:1-34 – Jesus healed a blind man on the Sabbath, who believed Jesus was a prophet, and the Jews had decided to excommunicate anyone who said Jesus was Messiah.
These Scriptures indicate that the main reason Jesus was crucified was for the crime of breaking Sabbath law and claiming to be from God/Messiah. We see that Jesus never taught anyone to keep the fourth commandment and never hinted that it was an eternal moral law, but instead indicated that it is merely Levitical tradition, and so Paul wrote “Do not let anyone judge you… with regard to a Sabbath day” (Col. 2:16).
As a truthseeker, I am very open to changing my "ways" when warranted, and I have amended a few of my beliefs
due to discussions on CC, but I see no reason to view the Sabbath Law as mandatory for Christians. If Jesus thought
keeping the Sabbath was an important law, he would have reaffirmed it as he did a few other OT commands in Matt. 5.
Paul taught that a person may rest on the Sabbath or not in Col. 2:16, Gal. 4:9-11 & Rom. 14:5.
Hebrews encourages Christians to enter God’s Sabbath rest by persevering faith in Heb. 3:7-4:11.
The primary sin per the NT is transgression of GRFS (Gal. 3:1-14), and secondary sins are transgression of Christ’s law (John 13:34), which summarizes the OT moral laws (Matt. 22:37-40) affirmed by the NT (Matt. 5:17-48) and calls them the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23), which does NOT include all 613 laws of Moses, such as those pertaining to mildew and infectious disease in Lev. 14.
Jesus fulfilled/accomplished the 613 Mosaic laws (Matt. 5:17-19) and taught that righteousness must surpass/supersede that of the Pharisees (Matt. 5:20) including Paul (Acts 22:3-5), to whom Jesus appeared, saying “Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the goads. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you… I am sending you to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.”
Paul did just that when he preached to the folks (both Jews and Gentiles per Acts 14:1-5) in Galatia (Acts 13:49), encouraging them to remain true to the faith (Acts 14:22), which he reiterated in his epistle, beginning “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel, which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ… But if anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” (Gal. 1:3-9)
Paul stated the true gospel thusly, “I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ [the HS] lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved he and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness [holiness] could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”
Paul may also have written Hebrews, which warns against not entering God’s Sabbath rest by not holding firmly until the end the confidence/faith in Christ (Heb. 3:14, 4:2). Heb. 7:11-10:1 begins as follows:
“If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood, why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also… The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless, for the law made nothing perfect, and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. Such a high priest truly meets our need… the Son, who has been made perfect forever, who sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven… The ministry of Jesus has received is superior to the old one [of Moses], since the NC is established on better promises… God said, ‘The days are coming when I will make a new covenant’ [Jer. 31:31-34]. It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts… By calling this covenant ‘new’, he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”
In this passage the Lord says that the OC including the Sabbath commandment is obsolete/superseded by the Gospel of Christ. Need GW say more?
It was never a sin to eat on the Sabbath why Jesus said they were guiltless Mat 12:7 or help people who are sick. These were all violations of the Pharasees man-made sabbath, not God’s Sabbath in the 4th commandment. Sadly the devil has attacked this commandment from every angle and still does. He really does not want people being blessed Isa 56:22 and sanctified by God Eze20:12 and knows he can’t take away that from God or those who keep their faith in Him, so came up with a whole counterfeit system as we were warned Dan7:25
Not at all. And if you know Christ and who He is within you, it is no burden to love your neighbour. That is the difference between Law and grace. Law says, "You shall" (or shall not). Grace says, let Jesus live out His life in you and through you. Most Christians can quote, "By grace you are saved....." I've not heard many that we are "Saved by His life" (Romans 5:10). In other words, grace = life of Christ. Now when Jesus is doing the living, our services are no longer required. A bird flies because it has the life of a bird. A cat is cat because it has cat life. A Christian is a Christian because He has the life of Christ.If you search Bible Hub for "there is no law," three verses are offered for review
Romans 4:15
because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 5:13
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.
Galatians 5:23
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
The times that Jesus "broke the law," He was acting in a capacity as "above the law" as the works he did was not in refraining from the lusts of the flesh but rather an indulgence in the fruit of the spirit, which of such things there is no law against.
This makes me wonder if it is more than assumption to consider a law as necessarily set 'against' a thing even if it all appearances of it may seem to be 'for' something. For instance, the speed limit at first glance appears to be for 55mph, until you break it, of course, and then it becomes clear that it is set against driving 65mph. But, on the other hand, there is no law against any degree of gentleness or self-control...
So, if one puts all their focus on not coveting your neighbor's wife, since there is a law against it, does that relieve one of the burdens of loving thy neighbor?
The difference is that we get to choose the source of our life. As one preacher I knew said, "Study the Bible. All of it. And put it into practice". OK, so I should stone someone who collect firewood on Saturday. If I see someone with a Buddha statue I should kill them too. The the New Testament turns that on its head.
How much easier to ask Jesus to be all that God requires us to be. He is the Wisdom of God and the Power of God. Most of my many troubles came from attempting to use reason and logic to run my Christian life. The mind is supposed to be our servant, not our master. We are primarily spirit beings, with a soul for expression and a body to enable us to do God's will. Too many strive from the power of the self of the soul and so miss what God has for us.
I started reading Ellen G White's "Great Controversy". I got about one page in before I quit. I'd been saved for about 4 years and even then I saw it as unbiblical. At least some Adventists put her writings on a par with scripture. That is not true. If her writing was supposed to be prophecy, then she was a false prophet.
Where I live, for decades there were laws that prohibited selling much at all on a Sunday. Most shops were closed. Now there are no restrictions. So no, your "prophet" has it totally wrong. 120 years later, Sunday has become fundamentally secular.
So where is the popular demand for Sunday observance? People are increasingly irreligious and the church increasingly irrelevant. And those who are turning to Christ are mostly through protestant, Sunday worshiping churches.
U
Undergrace1
Guest
You're right, Sunday laws are being more relaxed. In my own country(UK) they passed a law about twenty years ago so the big supermarkets could open on Sundays. It suits the sda narrative to believe a time is coming when they will be persecuted for holding to a Saturday sabbath. However, the real threat to Christians/persecution of them is elsewhere, as even the sda should know
Adventists have come up with their own version of Christianity. It denies the truth that there is a new covenant. It denies the truth that the Law was for Israel, not the gentiles and that grace and truth came through Jesus. Adventist teaching is no better than that of the Judaisers that Paul condemned. Adventists replace circumcision, which predates the Law, with Sabbath keeping. The spirit is the same, divisive, based on religious pride and determined to shackle believers with legalistic chains.
Miller was a false prophet in that he wrongly foretold the return of Christ. The Adventist cult is based on a false prophecy. In law, this is known as poisonous roots. I feel sorry for those who are caught up in the cult. You do not know the wonderful joy of being a new creation in Christ.
Galatians 5:1
"It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery."
In context, this refers to bondage to the law. I live by a new law, the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. That is because I am a new creation. I died to the law (Galatians 2:19). No one charges a dead man with an offence. The law has no hold on me because I'm crucified with Christ and raised again to new life.
They dare not admit it because that undermines their whole reason for being.