Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Cameron143]

Its what gets you thrown in hell so why dont you tell us.

Unbelief is sin...1 John 3:23.

Sin is what separates an individual from God...Isaiah 59:2.

If someone is in a state of unbelief, they aren't placed under condemnation. They are already under condemnation...John 3:18.

If unbelief is a sin, it can be forgiven. Anyone who believes was once in unbelief.

On the cross, our sins were bore in Jesus body. If this is so, then according to many here, God, having paid for every sin of every person, is now acting unrighteously by still requiring sins to be paid for that have been placed behind His back and remembered no more.

 

[Cameron143]

A silly irreverent comment that betrays much about your true motives.
The proper response would have been contrition and correction. Not further obstinacy.

Have you ever seen a mirror? Perhaps take a look into one.

 

[Kroogz]

this is how rom. 10:17 should read, in relation to God and His word.
"So then Faith ( conviction and reliance upon God) comes ( added by the translators) by hearing, (a thing heard) a hearing ( a thing heard ) by the word (utterances, narration, and instruction) of God . (the supreme deity.)

It's when we try to make the word "faith" a verb and insert the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing in this passage is error. And insert the word gospel for "word" in this passage which is error also. and try to use the word Lord or Jesus in the Passage instead of God. And yes , before you go ballistic on me, i understand all about the trinity and am in full understanding of it. But the passage uses the word "God" which specifically means "supreme deity".

Rom 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.


ῥήματος
rhēmatos[the] wordN-GNS5547 [e]Χριστοῦ.
Christouof Christ.



Christos: Christ, Anointed One, Messiah
Original Word: Χριστός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Christos
Pronunciation: khris-TOS
Phonetic Spelling: (khris-tos')
KJV: Christ
NASB: Christ, Christ's, Messiah
Word Origin: [from G5548 (χρίω - anointed)]

 

[Kroogz]

Unbelief is sin...1 John 3:23.

Sin is what separates an individual from God...Isaiah 59:2.

If someone is in a state of unbelief, they aren't placed under condemnation. They are already under condemnation...John 3:18.

If unbelief is a sin, it can be forgiven. Anyone who believes was once in unbelief.

On the cross, our sins were bore in Jesus body. If this is so, then according to many here, God, having paid for every sin of every person, is now acting unrighteously by still requiring sins to be paid for that have been placed behind His back and remembered no more.

The problem is evil/human good/human righteousness.

If one never believes in the Lord Jesus Christ........They are judged according to their DEEDS/WORKS/HUMAN GOOD. No one goes to the LoF for their sin, Jesus Paid that price.

Sin is finished, and the unbeliever pays the price of their "good" deeds. All unbelievers will get the chance to "plead their case" with their "good" deeds.......and all their righteousness is as filthy rags.

The wages of sin is death. Unbelievers share in the resurrection.....Because Christ paid the price for sin.

Rev 20:12,13
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

Adam and Eve did not sin by making coverings for themselves.......But those coverings were EVIL/HUMAN GOOD/DEEDS. And they will not save.

 

[Cameron143]

The problem is evil/human good/human righteousness.

If one never believes in the Lord Jesus Christ........They are judged according to their DEEDS/WORKS/HUMAN GOOD. No one goes to the LoF for their sin, Jesus Paid that price.

Sin is finished, and the unbeliever pays the price of their "good" deeds. All unbelievers will get the chance to "plead their case" with their "good" deeds.......and all their righteousness is as filthy rags.

The wages of sin is death. Unbelievers share in the resurrection.....Because Christ paid the price for sin.

Rev 20:12,13
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.

And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

Adam and Eve did not sin by making coverings for themselves.......But those coverings were EVIL/HUMAN GOOD/DEEDS. And they will not save.

Jesus came to His people from their SIN.

Sins are deeds.

 

[Genez]

Well I am not Tulip or a calvinist so I don't think this applies to me and it was uncalled for

Sorry. It was not directed to you. I am not sure what you believe.
I was letting you know what TULIP followers think, just in case.

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus came to His people from their SIN.

Sins are deeds.

Even my toddlers knew the difference between good and sin.

But it takes believers a ton of practice to discern good from evil.......And maturity.

HEB 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

All sin is evil. But not all evil is sin......It takes maturity and lots of practice to see the difference.

 

[Blain]

Sorry. It was not directed to you. I am not sure what you believe.
I was letting you know what TULIP followers think, just in case.

Ok so it was ia misunderstanding then, thanks for clarifying. But I do have some knowledge on what Tulip yeaches and I agree that it isn't good

 

[Jordon]

Ok so it was ia misunderstanding then, thanks for clarifying. But I do have some knowledge on what Tulip yeaches and I agree that it isn't good

On which part do you think it isn't good .and are you sure the people who are teaching it are teaching it correctly. Or the people arguing against it are making unjust claims,.as I have heard many of them here

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus came to His people from their SIN.

Sins are deeds.

Rom 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.


Original Word: ἁμαρτία
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hamartia
Pronunciation: hah-mar-TEE-ah
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tee'-ah)
KJV: offence, sin(-ful)
NASB: sin, sins, sinful
Word Origin: [from G264 (ἁμαρτάνω - sinned)]

Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

ergon: Work, deed, action, task, labor
Original Word: ἔργον
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Pronunciation: ER-gon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
KJV: deed, doing, labour, work
NASB: works, deeds, work, deed, action, behavior, doing
Word Origin: [from a primary (but obsolete) ergo "to work"]

 

[Cameron143]

Even my toddlers knew the difference between good and sin.

But it takes believers a ton of practice to discern good from evil.......And maturity.

HEB 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

All sin is evil. But not all evil is sin......It takes maturity and lots of practice to see the difference.

Did your toddlers help you formulate this answer.

I'm talking about righteousness. If I lend you $100 and someone pays the loan back for you and I accept it, am I acting righteously if I still charge you for the debt?

 

[Cameron143]

Rom 6:10
For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.


Original Word: ἁμαρτία
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hamartia
Pronunciation: hah-mar-TEE-ah
Phonetic Spelling: (ham-ar-tee'-ah)
KJV: offence, sin(-ful)
NASB: sin, sins, sinful
Word Origin: [from G264 (ἁμαρτάνω - sinned)]

Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them; and they were judged, each one of them according to their deeds.

ergon: Work, deed, action, task, labor
Original Word: ἔργον
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Pronunciation: ER-gon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
KJV: deed, doing, labour, work
NASB: works, deeds, work, deed, action, behavior, doing
Word Origin: [from a primary (but obsolete) ergo "to work"]

Jesus dying for sins once doesn't equate to paying for every sin; only there was only 1 point in history where sin was paid for.

 

[Blain]

On which part do you think it isn't good .and are you sure the people who are teaching it are teaching it correctly. Or the people arguing against it are making unjust claims,.as I have heard many of them here

Well it can be all of it really and from what I have seen Tulip believers say it doesn't sit right with me they have a very dedicated works for salvation for instance

 

[Watchman22]

Rom 10
14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Rom 10:17
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.


ῥήματος
rhēmatos[the] wordN-GNS5547 [e]Χριστοῦ.
Christouof Christ.



Christos: Christ, Anointed One, Messiah
Original Word: Χριστός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: Christos
Pronunciation: khris-TOS
Phonetic Spelling: (khris-tos')
KJV: Christ
NASB: Christ, Christ's, Messiah
Word Origin: [from G5548 (χρίω - anointed)]

In Rom.10:17
They use the word God, which is "theos" in the Greek meaning "supreme deity."

And I do understand the trinity, but if they meant "Christ", they would have used the word "Christos" which means anointed messiah. Or, Jesus, the name of the one with all power and authority.

 

[Kroogz]

Jesus dying for sins once doesn't equate to paying for sin

Isaiah 53:5-6
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. / We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

 

[Jordon]

Well it can be all of it really and from what I have seen Tulip believers say it doesn't sit right with me they have a very dedicated works for salvation for instance

Well I don't know really why people believe what they do unless I enquire,

But there has been in assumption made I know of, which suggested that perseverance of the saints means a works based religion, but by all accounts the Doctrine about tulip is God saving you, unconditional election means God chooses people based on his own will, ie God's will, not on the bases of what you or I have done.

And perseverance of the saints means those chosen through unconditional election, and means they won't fall away.

Where as there's an assumption that perseverance of the saints means they have to work for the salvation.

It's a bit like sanctification its generally viewed as an ongoing process, but some view it as an immediate state of justification

 

[HeIsHere]

Did your toddlers help you formulate this answer.

I'm talking about righteousness. If I lend you $100 and someone pays the loan back for you and I accept it, am I acting righteously if I still charge you for the debt?

Oops... the person did not accept it.

Nice moving the goal post, or adding a goal post, or something, once again.

 

[Cameron143]

Isaiah 53:5-6
But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. / We all like sheep have gone astray, each one has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid upon Him the iniquity of us all.

For the entirety of mankind. Smh.

The most poignant thing you have posted thus far is that you consult with your toddlers on doctrine.

Thanks for the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[Cameron143]

Oops... the person did not accept it.

Nice moving the goal post, or adding a goal post, or something, once again.

Oops...the subject is the righteousness of God. He accepted Jesus' sacrifice.

Try to stay on point. Are you consulting toddlers too?

 

[HeIsHere]

Oops...the subject is the righteousness of God. He accepted Jesus' sacrifice.

Try to stay on point. Are you consulting toddlers too?

Toddlers are the best!!
Generally speaking they have not been indoctrinated with the completely non-biblical limited atonement narrative.