The Ten Commandments are the Covenant, did you know?

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pine

Will you at least believe Jesus Christ?

John 13

13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am.

14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Am I a hypocrite for offering the words of Jesus Christ?

This is a tough crowd, calling something carnal that God Himself blessed Exo20:11, sanctified and made holy Gen2:1-3 and called the holy day of the Lord Isa58:13 that He blesses man when keeping Isa56:2 and a sign of His scarification Eze20:12

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Its not really their fault, its the pastors who are teaching we do not need to obey God, or we can edit God's own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 as if He needs correcting. Its a sad place we are in right now, but it just means we are getting closer to Jesus coming 2Tim3:3-4
 
Its all throughout the NT so not sure what you are referring to, kept by Jesus Himself and His apostles.

I know Col2:16 is everyone's go to, but if looking at the context carefully, its obviously not about the seventh day Sabbath. Jesus said in His own words the Sabbath would not end at His cross Mat24:24-30 Isa 66:22-23. So either Paul is being misunderstood as we are warned 2Peter3:16 or he is countermanding God. Paul said he was a servant of God and a servant will never speak over their master, and neither should we.


There is a lot of context Paul gives us in this passage. There is so much more that I could have touched on but was trying to keep it as short as possible.

There are several different Sabbaths in the Bible that uses the same word, but has very different meanings.

There is the seventh day Sabbath- instituted at Creation Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3, came before sin, reaffirmed in the Ten Commandments Exo20:8-11, written by God personally Exo31:18, placed inside God’s ark Exo40:20 God called it “the holy day of the Lord” Isa58:13

There are the annual sabbath(s) feast days that are always tied to animal sacrifices, they don’t always fall on the seventh day can be on any day and came after the fall and were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark of God’s covenant came after sin.

  • 1st day of Unleavened Bread
  • 7th day of Unleavened Bread
  • Pentecost
  • Trumpets
  • Day of Atonement
  • 1st day of Tabernacles
  • 8th day of Tabernacles
We see these in Leviticus 23 and these are additional feasts besides the Sabbath of the Lord- the seventh day Sabbath Lev 23:37-38

There is the Day of Atonement Sabbath where fasting is required Lev16:31 Lev 23:27-32
There is the seventh year Sabbath that is every 7th year where the land should rest Lev25:1-7
The Jubilee Sabbath (50th) year Lev 25:8-17


So I think we are being quick to assume by seeing the word Sabbath that has different meanings and assuming it means the Holy Day of the Lord that comes with God's blessing and sanctification , without looking at the context that Paul carefully gave and we should let the Bible interpret itself.

Col 2:14 KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.

Greek word for handwriting: χειρόγραφον (cheirographon)
Literally: “something written by hand

Ordinances
τοῖς δόγμασιν (tois dogmasin)
Meaning: “decrees,” “regulations,” “legal demands”

It is a legal document that condemns sinners why Paul used the word “against us” and “contrary to us”. The law does not condemn the righteous, it condemns the sinners.

Just from this context that Paul gave we can eliminate the Ten Commandments, but lets let Scripture interpret Scripture.

Who wrote the handwritten ordinances?

2 Chron 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

What law is the law that was contrary and against?

Deut 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;


It appears from the text that this is not referring to the Sabbath in the Ten Commandments that was written by God Himself by His finger Exo31:18 placed inside the ark of the covenant, not besides like the annual sabbath(s) connected to animal sacrifices.


This is the law that was taken away at the Cross.

Col 2:16 let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

This is the exact language referring to the annual sabbath(s) that were handwritten by Moses, placed besides the ark that refer to annual feasts days, sacrifices and offerings that some were also called sabbath(s)

Eze 45:17 and it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.


What did Jesus say He would come to put an end to? (compared to magnifying another law- by placing it in our hearts Isa42:21 Heb8:10)


Dan 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.


Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ

What are the shadows laws? Lets let the Scriptures define what they are

Heb 10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once []purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, []O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been []sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

This fits the context of this passage perfectly and makes the Bible harmonize because we see Sabbath-keeping (every Sabbath) 30+ years after the Cross just as Jesus Himself indicated Isa 56:6-7 Acts 13:42, Acts 13:44 Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 and up to His Second Coming Mat24:20-30 and forever Isa66:22-23


very good, I agree, good job

but you know as well as I they will not accept it, they can not.
 
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pine

Will you at least believe Jesus Christ?

John 13

13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for [so] I am.

14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.

Am I a hypocrite for offering the words of Jesus Christ?


This is such a sly post. You accuse me of attacking you, you actually attack another poster and do not reply when I asked you what about Jesus' words after He rose from the dead and how about Jesus words in Revelation?

Why won't you answer about Jesus words after He rose from the dead and in Revelation?

If you want to just ignore all of that, don't bother to address me again because I do not find you are being honest and I don't play games which, at this point, it seems you just might be doing.
 
Pine I was purchased by the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, I am now owned by Christ and as His bond servant my duty is to obey my Master, He has told me through His Word to keep the Commandments and the Torah, which I try to do.

there is no reward for obeying ones master it is a servants DUTY, if I don't obey there are punishments. If I were to tell Christ, I will never obey, I will be rejected.

that is the truth the Many refuse to see.
Even your use of "the Many" here is faulty.

Here's some Bible truth for you: when Jesus referred to "the many" who would not enter the kingdom, He wasn't referring to those who would later become Christians.

Your small-minded arrogance and exclusivity are cultic.
 
This is a tough crowd, calling something carnal that God Himself blessed Exo20:11, sanctified and made holy Gen2:1-3 and called the holy day of the Lord Isa58:13 that He blesses man when keeping Isa56:2 and a sign of His scarification Eze20:12

Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Its not really their fault, its the pastors who are teaching we do not need to obey God, or we can edit God's own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18 as if He needs correcting. Its a sad place we are in right now, but it just means we are getting closer to Jesus coming 2Tim3:3-4

How about you?

Will you acknowledge what Jesus said after He rose from the dead?

How about what He says in Revelation?

Don't quote Isaiah unless you want to talk about Isaiah 53. How about He was wounded for outr trangressions.

I am seeing that when you are asked questions, even about Jesus words, that do not fit in with your narrative, you start to change the subject.
 
Sure it is. The holy spirit convicts the heart of what sin is. I knew in my heart things were evil before I knew what the law was. So the holy spirit is the law

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not into me; John 16:7-9
No doubt the Spirit convicts us of sin

But if we do not know what is sin, it is hard for the Spirit to prick our conscience.

When we are unconscious of a law the Spirit will find it hard to speak to your heart.. for example "you have never been told that graven images should not be worshiped. You have been told that you should do it if you love God. You don't feel guilty in your ignorance, unconscious state. Worshipping graven images isn't a sin in your eyes.
Then somebody shows you the commandment from the law.
You feel convicted but ask the church leaders and they tell you those laws are not for us, they are only for Jews. They tell you it is not wrong don't feel guilty.

You purposely ignore the guilt (holy Spirit) thinking it is not a sin it is not a sin in your understanding.

The Holy Spirit can talk to your heart but you will not listen if you do not believe it is a sin.

We need to study the Word to know truth.

You are not convicted of sabbath keeping because of your beliefs

I am convicted by the Holy Spirit about the sabbath. I feel guilty if I transgress the 4th commandment.

The truth, is important, and we are told without the law sin was dead.

The flesh likes to remove the law because it can sin and not feel guilty when there is not law.

Rom 7:7-9
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
 
OT saints weren't saved by keeping the law. No one has ever been saved by keeping the law...Galatians 2:16. OT saints were saved by grace through faith.


the Law only condemns, it does not offer eternal life --never has, but if transgressed, it brings the penalty of death.

the death, the shed blood of Christ pay our debt for our sins, if our Trust/faith is in that blood we can gain the gift of eternal life IF we obey and endure until OUR end.
 
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How much plainer does God need to be? He has already told us they have been ANNULLED, (Hebrews7:18), are OBSOLETE ( Hebrews 8:13) and now He says they have been TAKEN AWAY!

I have given you SCRIPTURE for every thing I believe. If you want to argue against these scriptures, please give scripture that prove these things are not true. Then we will have a different dilemma— discussing contradictions in the Bible .

Hebrews 7 is about the priesthood changing because Jesus came from the tribe of Judah but the law said it had to come from Levi. There is not one verse in Hebrews 7 that says the Sabbath. We are told plainly not to add to God's word.

Heb8:13 is about the old covenant ending, this again does not use the word Sabbath, its the entire covenant.

The issue was not with the laws. The issue was with the promises. The people promised to keep God's covenant Exo19:8 but they did not continue in. Why God made a new covenant established on better promises Heb8:6 of what He will do Heb8:10, we still have to cooperate. It still has God's laws but now placed in the NC believers heart and mind. Heb8:10 The law of God is just that God's laws- that He did not leave up to man to write, He personally did and regardless what covenant He makes with man it doesn't change what God's laws are. Only God can define His law, not man because man is not God.

God said He would have never made another agreement/covenant had it not been for the people breaking it, so His words were never the issue.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah

God promised not to alter His words and He always keeps His promises

Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
 
very good, I agree, good job

but you know as well as I they will not accept it, they can not.

This would almost be funny if the 2 of you were not trying to get away without answering questions about Jesus. You 2 are so obvious in the way you try to deflect. It's a really cheap shot to talk about Christians here like we can't read your nonsense.
 
I do not know why people keep talking about the Ten Commandment. Often when Jesus introduced His own commands He would say something like "You have heard it said....but I say" This showed that He believed His commands distilled the essence of the Mosaic law but superseded them in that they went much deeper searching even "the thoughts and intents of out heart." He introduced His command in such a way that shows His commands both fulfilled and superseded the ones Moses gave. The commandments of Jesus should be read studied and pursued. They are far more challenging and to the point than were those given by Moses.

When I lived in Israel, I heard some Rabbinical students say "it does not matter what we imagine (about women) as long as I do not DO what the Torah forbids. Of course, since the Torah does not talk about lust apart from explicit immoral sexual behavior However, this way of thinking led them to believe reading or watching pornography was just fine. They did seem to have a concept that polluting ones own soul was also a sin before the Holy God who sees everything and that encouraging ones desires would most certainly lead to sin.
 
Attack? So a person that points out the errors in your belief is attacking you? That's nonsense. The commandments are not gone and who said that? I know I did not say that. Another false accusation?

Jesus rose from the dead. What did He have to say then? Did He say keep the law? What does Jesus say in the book of Revelation or do you ignore that book also?


at this point I have no idea what you believe or don't believe.

Do you obey the 10 Commandments? even the 4th? Do you acknowledge the Torah is God's Law?
 
This would almost be funny if the 2 of you were not trying to get away without answering questions about Jesus. You 2 are so obvious in the way you try to deflect. It's a really cheap shot to talk about Christians here like we can't read your nonsense.


As me a question about Jesus Christ
 
This would almost be funny if the 2 of you were not trying to get away without answering questions about Jesus. You 2 are so obvious in the way you try to deflect. It's a really cheap shot to talk about Christians here like we can't read your nonsense.


pine you only attack, we know nothing about where you stand on doctrines
 
Jesus calls us His brothers and sisters. God calls us His children. We are servants only and in fact, we are also addressed as saints.

Jesus rose from the dead. He said to make disciples, not servants. Jesus already obeyed the law to perfection which you can never do nor can anyone else do. It is all in the Bible. For some reason, you choose to ignore it and call yourself a servant and sometimes a disobedient serfant that God is going to punish.

How does God punish you? Sounds like you have a very fearful salvation. Instead of rejoicing in Christ, you are afraid. How about the joy of the Lord?


Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Act 3:19 KJV Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Fear is a good thing if you Fear being a servant of sin.

But choosing to be a servant of obedience is not a burden. I delight in the Lord and willingly give myself to Him. He gave all for me, so I willingly give myself to Him.

Being a servant of my loving saviour is a delight..
It results in life and happiness..

It isn't about having a fearful salvation.
It is about respect. Because I love my Lord I desire to obey Him.

It is not obedience out of fear, it is obedience out of love.
 
the Law only condemns, it does not offer eternal life --never has, but if transgressed, it brings the penalty of death.

the death, the shed blood of Christ pay our debt for our sins, if our Trust/faith is in that blood we can gain the gift of eternal life IF we obey and endure until OUR end.
If we endure to the end it is because of the Spirit within us and because we cannot be separated from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
 
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I do not know why people keep talking about the Ten Commandment. Often when Jesus introduced His own commands He would say something like "You have heard it said....but I say" This showed that He believed His commands distilled the essence of the Mosaic law but superseded them in that they went much deeper searching even "the thoughts and intents of out heart." He introduced His command in such a way that shows His commands both fulfilled and superseded the ones Moses gave. The commandments of Jesus should be read studied and pursued. They are far more challenging and to the point than were those given by Moses.

When I lived in Israel, I heard some Rabbinical students say "it does not matter what we imagine (about women) as long as I do not DO what the Torah forbids. Of course, since the Torah does not talk about lust apart from explicit immoral sexual behavior However, this way of thinking led them to believe reading or watching pornography was just fine. They did seem to have a concept that polluting ones own soul was also a sin before the Holy God who sees everything and that encouraging ones desires would most certainly lead to sin.


Jimi

I am only interested in scripture,, not your words, not your thoughts

The Rich man asked Christ what he needed to do to gain eternal life.

Christ answered "keep the Commandments" and then Christ listed a few

I am sure the Many can make even these words of Christ go away, but the words of Christ are TRuth
 
Jimi

I am only interested in scripture,, not your words, not your thoughts

The Rich man asked Christ what he needed to do to gain eternal life.

Christ answered "keep the Commandments" and then Christ listed a few

I am sure the Many can make even these words of Christ go away, but the words of Christ are TRuth
Jesus also told him to give away his wealth and follow Him.