If it be thy will

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CalledByChrist said:
Tell me, what does everyone owe God? How does one pay this? Does payment differ depending on the desired change in path as you say? Can you pay too little and receive half a path change, or pay too much and receive two paths?
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everybody owes God something and no disrespect, I would rather wait for stubbornness of peoples own will to answer, than have my answer seen as nothing again,

Because that's what God is like patient in waiting that all comes to repentance, theirs your clue
 
Jordon said:
ok do you think somebody can persuade God that his first plan was not a good plan,
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No because all his plans are good plans, now can we persuade him to have mercy? yes I believe so
 
Blain said:
No because all his plans are good plans, now can we persuade him to have mercy? yes I believe so
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But who's benefit is that for ?

Look at it this way can you persuade God that he doesn't know what's going on down here, so if you take this into account, mercy is a means he has already provided and ordained for the future, that he already knows will change your benefit in advance, if you trust in his mercy, so his plan for you he's already decided your mind will be changed
, if you trust in his plan, meaning his mind already knew in advance your outcome, meaning you didn't change his mind. He changed yours
 
Jordon said:
But who's benefit is that for ?

Look at it this way can you persuade God that he doesn't know what's going on down here, so if you take this into account, mercy is a means he has already provided and ordained for the future, that he already knows will change your benefit in advance, if you trust in his mercy, so his plan for you he's already decided your mind will be changed
, if you trust in his plan, meaning his mind already knew in advance your outcome, meaning you didn't change his mind. He changed yours
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Let me ask you this why did Jesus on the cross say to him forgive them father for they know not what they do? If his mind or mercy could not be persuaded why did Jesus say this to him?
 
Blain said:
Let me ask you this why did Jesus on the cross say to him forgive them father for they know not what they do? If his mind or mercy could not be persuaded why did Jesus say this to him?
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This is changing the goal post a bit, but what was meant was he was speaking about the crowd following the crowd not knowing whether he was the Messiah.

Remember he said pontas pilate was guilty of a greater sin because he knew he was the Messiah, which may well imply He made it known to him he was.

Other wise would Jesus of said he was guilty of greater sin, than the crowd he was asking them to be forgiven for the same reason, because why well probably they hadn't quite been made to be known he was the Messiah, as some of them may well not have a had a direct one on one talk with the lord, like pontas had, but not only that pontas pilate wife had a dream about the Messiah, and she warned him, so did Jesus bring that dream to his wife ? Was it her dream alone , nooo I don't think so,

That would of been Gods will to test the heart to see if mans will would trust in him
 
Jordon said:
This is changing the goal post a bit, but what was meant was he was speaking about the crowd following the crowd not knowing whether he was the Messiah.

Remember he said pontas pilate was guilty of a greater sin because he knew he was the Messiah, which may well imply He made it known to him he was.

Other wise would Jesus of said he was guilty of greater sin, than the crowd he was asking them to be forgiven for the same reason, because why well probably they hadn't quite been made to be known he was the Messiah, as some of them may well not have a had a direct one on one talk with the lord, like pontas had, but not only that pontas pilate wife had a dream about the Messiah, and she warned him, so did Jesus bring that dream to his wife ? Was it her dream alone , nooo I don't think so,

That would of been Gods will to test the heart to see if mans will would trust in him
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Except that isn't what it says nowhere does it say he was speaking of the crowd following the crowd and even if he was he was still pleading for forgiveness to the father
 
Jordon said:
This is changing the goal post a bit, but what was meant was he was speaking about the crowd following the crowd not knowing whether he was the Messiah.

Remember he said pontas pilate was guilty of a greater sin because he knew he was the Messiah, which may well imply He made it known to him he was.

Other wise would Jesus of said he was guilty of greater sin, than the crowd he was asking them to be forgiven for the same reason, because why well probably they hadn't quite been made to be known he was the Messiah, as some of them may well not have a had a direct one on one talk with the lord, like pontas had, but not only that pontas pilate wife had a dream about the Messiah, and she warned him, so did Jesus bring that dream to his wife ? Was it her dream alone , nooo I don't think so,

That would of been Gods will to test the heart to see if mans will would trust in him
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You are correct about Pilot though
 
Blain said:
Except that isn't what it says nowhere does it say he was speaking of the crowd following the crowd and even if he was he was still pleading for forgiveness to the father
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I in included a valid understanding that lined up with scripture, regarding this chain of events.

Where as you've just dismissed it in the blink of an eye on the idea Jesus saying forgive them they no what they do to mean what exactly.

That they know not what they do for everything they not not what they do.

That would be silly wouldn't it, seeing as God does make people aware for the wrong doings they do.

So the understanding here jesus was saying they know not what they do, was about a Pacific thing not all things.

And I provided a Pacific reason, that is related to the story, from the chain of events

What have you provided. ?

You've only provided a dismissal of that
 
Jordon said:
This is changing the goal post a bit, but what was meant was he was speaking about the crowd following the crowd not knowing whether he was the Messiah.

Remember he said pontas pilate was guilty of a greater sin because he knew he was the Messiah, which may well imply He made it known to him he was.

Other wise would Jesus of said he was guilty of greater sin, than the crowd he was asking them to be forgiven for the same reason, because why well probably they hadn't quite been made to be known he was the Messiah, as some of them may well not have a had a direct one on one talk with the lord, like pontas had, but not only that pontas pilate wife had a dream about the Messiah, and she warned him, so did Jesus bring that dream to his wife ? Was it her dream alone , nooo I don't think so,

That would of been Gods will to test the heart to see if mans will would trust in him
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He didn’t say that Pontius was guilty of the greater sin.
 
Jordon said:
I in included a valid understanding that lined up with scripture, regarding this chain of events.

Where as you've just dismissed it in the blink of an eye on the idea Jesus saying forgive them they no what they do to mean what exactly.

That they know not what they do for everything they not not what they do.

That would be silly wouldn't it, seeing as God does make people aware for the wrong doings they do.

So the understanding here jesus was saying they know not what they do, was about a Pacific thing not all things.

And I provided a Pacific reason, that is related to the story, from the chain of events

What have you provided. ?

You've only provided a dismissal of that
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Yes I dismissed it and that is because I do not see anywhere in the scripture that it was the crowd that followed the crowed he was asking for forgiveness for and the mere fact he pleaded for forgiveness indicates that Jesus believed that his plea was heard and that God the father might do as he pleaded.

I don't believe in adding interpretation of scripture or in any kind of understanding that is aside from what the scriptures themselves say and as I said the scriptures do not say it was the crowd following the crowd and again if he pleaded with the father then he must have believed that he heard and might answer his plea.

So in conclusion and forgive me if I am to not understand this correctly Jesus was speaking about the Jews who were crucifying him
 
Blain said:
Let me ask you this why did Jesus on the cross say to him forgive them father for they know not what they do? If his mind or mercy could not be persuaded why did Jesus say this to him?
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Perhaps Jesus meant "The Father will forgive sins committed because of ignorance,
because He forgives a sinner who confesses known sins of all sins (1John 1:8-9).

However, those who are unrepentant are not forgiven but instead are justly condemned (John 8:42-45, Matt. 23:33).
 
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GWH said:
Perhaps Jesus meant "The Father will forgive sins committed because of ignorance,
because He forgives a sinner who confesses known sins of all sins (1John 1:8-9).

However, those who are unrepentant are not forgiven but instead are justly condemned (John 8:42-45, Matt. 23:33).
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Yeah this makes sense as far as I can tell
 
Just_A__Follower said:
He who delivered me over to you is guilty of the greater sin. You may want to read that again. He was telling Pilate that the ones that delivered Him to Pilate were the guilty ones.
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your wrong because Judas handed him over knowing he was the Messiah,.and pontas was also made known he was the Messiah. His wife was given a dream and his wife warned him

Shame you never thought of that
 
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