FOUNDATION, the 12 apostles or Pauls?

[Ouch]

Let's, understand what was happening right then and there. Christ was dead and then seen risen. Told all sin forgiven by the love and mercy of Father as leader, through the death of Jesus first. 2 Cor 5:16-22. Amazing grace given, yet the unredeemed flesh still in the way as is the same today for all flesh, before new birth given them to learn new from Father, to stand in what is done for them by Son Col. 1:21-23
Angered, mad in Peter's self, the unredeemed flesh in the way. Not yet understanding or understood fully yet, in process, why Jesus had to die first, yet, he had gotten told by the risen Son why? Acts, 1, still reasoning this all out. Then as risen where new life is given from Father, through risen Jesus to all that choose to believe Father raised Son Jesus for the dead, receive new life in them to learn new, are Spirit Baptized by Daddy to learn new. Are Spirit Baptized by Farther then and there. As we all have and do make mistakes along the way. First sealed by Dad, Father, PaPa on the first day one, anyone believes God by God for them. Get to see Accepted by God through Son's done work for them. Eph 1:6, then see verse 7 Forgiven. then begin to understand Eph. 1:13, sealed by God Father in risen Son to learn new one thing at a time, not all at once. Confusion comes in from doing too much at one time. Evil is great at that confusing people.
I know from scriptures, Peter was angry over the religious leaders getting Jesus killed. Wanting to understand this, yet not easy. Peter growing new, yet still mad as hell over them getting Jesus killed. They say to Peter what must we do?
Repent !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! be water Batist for the remission of sins. So we have now one must be water Baptized, When truth is, be Spiritually Baptized. John said to Jesus, I need to be Baptized by you, and you come to me. I Baptize With water, you Baptize with Spirit. I Must decrease, you must increase. What has increased? Water or Spirit Baptism? What is the whole truth, to be water Baptized or Spirit Baptized and by who? God or man?
When truth is Jesus is the Baptism in Spirit and Truth of Father for each person to believe to be in and learn new in love and mercy to all that is given them first in Son for them
We love because God first loved us. We forgive because we are forgiven by God first
This is truth. It is not have to forgive to get forgiven anymore or have to love to be loved anymore

There is a before the cross and an after the cross
Before under Law, After holding up the Law., no longer trying to do the Law, no learning new in having to do the Law from God and Son. 1 John 2:27 Now being taught new how to from God, not from self or others anymore. This is personal, between God and you frist, before anyone can truly love anyone else, thank you

A lot of information, so you don't like what Peter said?

You do understand you are using your debate with letters after the book of Acts right??

Which were to established churchs or others.

What is amazing is timing when the first message that was preached Acts 2:38.

JESUS mercy was shown on those were responsible for putting HIM on the cross, showing all of HIS love.

Back to Acts 2:38-39 the instructions Peter gives are an easy read and easy to understand what we must do to be saved.

If you don't think so, tell me with scripture what we have to do to be saved.

Now remember, all books after the book of Acts were to those who have the foundation of the book of Acts so you can't use them.

They ARE NOT addressed to the unsaved.

 

[Wansvic]

You read into those passages things I do not see. Water is no longer the method of pardoning sins. Peter says nothing about "had he not offered water baptism", if anything he is saying the opposite when he remembers what the lord said about baptism.

Matthew 26:28
For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

The command is indeed to be baptized into the name of Jesus for it His death and resurrection that pardons our sin and gives us life but there is no mention of water. In fact, scripture states it would occur through a new means as John predicted and as Christ said it would occur.

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Acts 1:5
for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

You said, and I quote: "The command is indeed to be baptized into the name of Jesus for it His death and resurrection that pardons our sin and gives us life but there is no mention of water."

Notice the Word of God is specific, it reveals baptism in the name of the Lord is water baptism.
"Can any man forbid WATER that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. ..." Acts 10:47-48


Also, I am not reading anything into the scripture, rather I am accepting what it reveals. In Acts 11;1-18, Peter stated who was I to withstand God AFTER seeing Him fill the Gentiles with the Holy Ghost? Peter is commenting on what occurred in Acts 10:43-48. What did Peter do AFTER he witnessed God fill the people? Peter commanded that they be baptized in water in the name of the Lord. Had Peter refused to water baptize the Gentiles he would have been going against the wishes of God.

The account, as well as others, reveals:

1. Being filled with the Holy Ghost did not replace water baptism. Both are essential elements of salvation. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)
2. Baptism in the name of Jesus/Lord/Jesus Christ is a reference to water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)
3. Baptism in the name of Jesus is a New Covenant/Testament command. (Luke 24:47, Acts 2:38, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)
4. Baptism in the name of Jesus remits sin. (Acts 22:16, 2:38, Luke 24:47)

 

[Nedsk]

I am only concerned only with the revelation of Jesus Christ and the declaration of the gospel.

I am in the same boat as everyone else through history.

In that, I hold to the enforcement of scripture only.

All church interpretations, denomination variance, theological input, philosophy, is soundly rejected.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead,
you will be saved.

Paul explained the gospel of Jesus Christ fully.

The authority rests on the shoulders of the apostle to the Gentiles.

LMBO even Scripture doesn't claim Scripture only.

How do you know your interpretation is sound, besides you believe it to be so?

 

[homwardbound]

A lot of information, so you don't like what Peter said?

You do understand you are using your debate with letters after the book of Acts right??

Which were to established churchs or others.

What is amazing is timing when the first message that was preached Acts 2:38.

JESUS mercy was shown on those were responsible for putting HIM on the cross, showing all of HIS love.

Back to Acts 2:38-39 the instructions Peter gives are an easy read and easy to understand what we must do to be saved.

If you don't think so, tell me with scripture what we have to do to be saved.

Now remember, all books after the book of Acts were to those who have the foundation of the book of Acts so you can't use them.

They ARE NOT addressed to the unsaved.

Sorry, you do not yet see it
Under Law any Law man gives to do, put man under Law and rebellion comes from under Law
So go ahead and tell others they have to, okay, thank you
I see the freedom God has given and has given you too, along with everyone else
Love you in the same mercy and truth of Son for us all

I am not saying do not get water Baptized, I am saying do it willingly, otherwise it is of no use under Law. If you demand it to be done then you must obey the entire Law perfectly as Paul speaks about to us in Galatians
Love you in Father and Son's truth, no one deserving to get given it ever. Thank you love from Father and Son, me included praying for everyone's soul

 

[Nedsk]

Sorry, you do not yet see it
Under Law any Law man gives to do, put man under Law and rebellion comes from under Law
So go ahead and tell others they have to, okay, thank you
I see the freedom God has given and has given you too, along with everyone else
Love you in the same mercy and truth of Son for us all

I am not saying do not get water Baptized, I am saying do it willingly, otherwise it is of no use under Law. If you demand it to be done then you must obey the entire Law perfectly as Paul speaks about to us in Galatians
Love you in Father and Son's truth, no one deserving to get given it ever. Thank you love from Father and Son, me included praying for everyone's soul

Why get water baptized if faith alone is sufficient for salvation?

 

[homwardbound]

Why get water baptized if faith alone is sufficient for salvation?

A good Conscience to Father in risen Son for me at least and per Peter in 1 Peter 3

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I willingly got water Baptized, not having to, being my motive a thankful response to God Father in risen Son

 

[Nedsk]

A good Conscience to Father in risen Son for me at least and per Peter in 1 Peter 3

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
I willingly got water Baptized, not having to, being my motive a thankful response to God Father in risen Son

God don't know you were thankful? If it's not necessary then it's just window dressing. Or it actually means something and its a necessary step. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Wansvic]

Yes.

And there are important points in the passage.

"So Jesus said to them again, “Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

First, notice that the mission of the Apostles was the same as the mission of Jesus:

"Peace to you! As the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

Now that Jesus had "All authority in heaven and on earth" He could send whomever He wanted. BUT, the manner and mission of their sending would be grounded IN THE FATHER. That is to say: just a Jesus only did what He saw His Father doing, the Apostles, likewise, would only do what they saw the Lord doing. They were not free to disobey the Lord and remain obedient to the Lord.

To empower those whom Jesus was sending, the next portion is crucial:

"He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."

Here He is, the Holy Spirit: the Spirit of God both empowers and restrains men, especially men who have given their lives to the Lord as "living sacrifices".

So when Jesus says this next:

"If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

The context is this: Just like I only did what I saw my Father doing, you will, likewise, only do what you see Me doing. So, when you see that I have forgiven men their sins, you will likewise tell them "Your sins are forgiven". This is the grace that comes from EVERYONE who walks not by the flesh but buy the Spirit.

This is a delegation of authority that is common in the armed forces but is often missed by the "Just me and Jesus" crowd.

No where in the Word of God do we see apostles personally forgiving sins. The word does, however, record them telling those who believe in Jesus and His sacrifice what is necessary in order to receive forgiveness.

Peter said, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins" (Acts 2:38)
Peter also said that everyone who believes in Jesus "receives forgiveness of sins through his name" (Acts 10:43).
Ananias told Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling upon the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16)
The Apostle Paul said it is through Jesus that forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you" (Acts 13:38).

The above scriptures reveal the act of obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus remits all past sins. After the initial cleansing, when a believer's sin they can receive forgiven when they make an appeal to God in the name of Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5, 1 John 1:9).

The apostles preached the Gospel message and those willing to believe and obey received what Jesus died to provide.

 

[Nedsk]

No where in the Word of God do we see apostles personally forgiving sins. The word does, however, record them telling those who believe in Jesus and His sacrifice what is necessary in order to receive forgiveness.

Peter said, "Repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins" (Acts 2:38)
Peter also said that everyone who believes in Jesus "receives forgiveness of sins through his name" (Acts 10:43).
Ananias told Paul to be baptized and wash away his sins calling upon the name of the Lord. (Acts 22:16)
The Apostle Paul said it is through Jesus that forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you" (Acts 13:38).

The above scriptures reveal the act of obedience to water baptism in the name of Jesus remits all past sins. After the initial cleansing, when a believer sin they can receive forgiven when theymake an appeal to God in the name of Jesus. (1 Timothy 2:5, 1 John 1:9).

The apostles preached the Gospel message and those willing to believe and obey received what Jesus died to provide.

Why does that matter? Scripture is EXPLICIT that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins. I guess they never sneezed either since we don't see that in Scripture.

 

[homwardbound]

God don't know you were thankful? If it's not necessary then it's just window dressing. Or it actually means something and its a necessary step. You can't have it both ways.

Thank you, I am well in my Soul, thanks to Father and Son, trusting you are also as we each know the truth in self as stated in Romans 8 trusting the beast for you too Jeremiah 29:11
Thank you

 

[Nedsk]

Thank you, I am well in my Soul, thanks to Father and Son, trusting you are also as we each know the truth in self as stated in Romans 8 trusting the beast for you too Jeremiah 29:11
Thank you

We each know the truth? I dont agree with that.

 

[homwardbound]

We each know the truth? I dont agree with that.

Authorized (King James) Version

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

 

[Nedsk]

Authorized (King James) Version

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Other than you saying so you have way to prove your understanding of Scripture is accurate or more authoritative than anyone elses

 

[Wansvic]

Sorry, you do not yet see it
Under Law any Law man gives to do, put man under Law and rebellion comes from under Law
So go ahead and tell others they have to, okay, thank you
I see the freedom God has given and has given you too, along with everyone else
Love you in the same mercy and truth of Son for us all

I am not saying do not get water Baptized, I am saying do it willingly, otherwise it is of no use under Law. If you demand it to be done then you must obey the entire Law perfectly as Paul speaks about to us in Galatians
Love you in Father and Son's truth, no one deserving to get given it ever. Thank you love from Father and Son, me included praying for everyone's soul

Again, the command to be water baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin is a NT command. It is not part of the OT law. John the Baptist introduced the baptism of repentance for the remission of sin. At that time water baptism had no direct connection with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. The water baptism command was later changed to include the name of Jesus. Those who believed in Jesus and His sacrifice were baptized in His name in order to receive remission of their sin.

The issue Paul was explaining in Galatians concerned the OT requirement of circumcision. The account reveals Jews were telling believers who had already obeyed the NT commands that they had to submit to the OT circumcision as well.

Also, it is commonly understood that Paul wrote to the Galatians prior to his stay in Ephesus. This is revealing since Paul preached the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus, and assisted the men of Ephesus in receiving the Holy Ghost/Spirit as well.

 

[Ouch]

Sorry, you do not yet see it
Under Law any Law man gives to do, put man under Law and rebellion comes from under Law
So go ahead and tell others they have to, okay, thank you
I see the freedom God has given and has given you too, along with everyone else
Love you in the same mercy and truth of Son for us all

I am not saying do not get water Baptized, I am saying do it willingly, otherwise it is of no use under Law. If you demand it to be done then you must obey the entire Law perfectly as Paul speaks about to us in Galatians
Love you in Father and Son's truth, no one deserving to get given it ever. Thank you love from Father and Son, me included praying for everyone's soul

You do know the law ended when JESUS died on the cross right?

 

[Wansvic]

Why does that matter? Scripture is EXPLICIT that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins. I guess they never sneezed either since we don't see that in Scripture.

The Bible indicates truth can only be understood by following the "two or three witnesses" rule, (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16, Deut. 19:15) This means multiple testimonies in scripture confirm what is true.

Your responses reveal you really do not want to have a cordial discussion. All I can say is, hopefully at some point you'll take scripture seriously.

Pride seeks to win the argument.
Humility seeks to honor the truth.

No need to reply.

 

[Nedsk]

The Bible indicates truth can only be understood by following the "two or three witnesses" rule, (2 Cor. 13:1, Matt. 18:16, Deut. 19:15) This means multiple testimonies in scripture confirm what is true.

Your responses reveal you really do not want to have a cordial discussion. All I can say is, hopefully at some point you'll take scripture seriously.

Pride seeks to win the argument.
Humility seeks to honor the truth.

No need to reply.

You dont want me to reply. I am not here to "win" anything. Im here to point out that if you have to tell me the words that are clearly written mean something other than what they they say, then I have no willingness to be cordial to such a person.

You aren't required to rely to me. See the difference?

 

[Dino246]

Protestants have perverted the Bible to fit their twisted "gospel". They deny things that are actually in the Bible and believe things not found in the Bible.

I disagree, but I’m willing to hear your opinion. What specific things do you think Protestants deny that are in the Bible, and what specific things do you think Protestants believe that aren’t in the Bible?

 

[Nedsk]

I disagree, but I’m willing to hear your opinion. What specific things do you think Protestants deny that are in the Bible, and what specific things do you think Protestants believe that aren’t in the Bible?

What they deny: Eat my flesh drink my blood. He established HIS church on the rock of Peter. The apostles are authorized to forgive sins.

What they believe thats not in the Bible: sola file, sola scriptura.

 

[pinebeach]

Protestants have perverted the Bible to fit their twisted "gospel". They deny things that are actually in the Bible and believe things not found in the Bible.

How about Christians? Have they also committed these crimes against your catholic teachings? Maybe you should consult a mod if it is ok to create all these snake oil posts against those who are not Catholic.