Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Rufus]

RBDB wrote in part in her 33,300:

The Lord Jesus Christ prayed for those who were with Him in the garden just before He was crucified ... that would be the 11 apostles after Judas left.

Why do you jump from the prayer in John 17 when the Lord Jesus Christ was with His 11 apostles at the end of His earthly ministry to an unrelated passage in John 10 when the Lord Jesus Christ was speaking to pharisees who had cast out of the synagogue the blind man who had been healed?

Why did I jump to an "unrelated passage in John 10"? I cited this latter chapter because I can count much better than you can. If you actually pinched yourself and bothered to wake yourself up from your sleep of death, you would see that Jesus prayed for TWO (2) groups of people in Jn 17 -- not just one.

Thanks for proving to us, though, what a horrible exegete you are to miss something so plain, clear and obvious. Heck...no one has to be an original language expert to understand who it was that Jesus prayed for.

 

[sawdust]

all your opinion. Which is just consistent with disagreeing for disagreement sake, to suit yourself.

I'm not playing your games, you need to grow up

My opinion along with all those who translated it impulse/lust/passion etc.

You need to study scripture.

I don't play games with God's word.

grace and peace

 

[Rufus]

nope ... just revealing your insistence that it's your way or the highway.





your reply in 33,306 does not refute anything posted in 33,298.

you veer away from the point concerning the inestimable value of the offering of the Lord Jesus Christ and its sufficiency to cover the sin of all mankind ... all descendants of Adam ...

you veer away from the point concerning the breadth, length, depth, and height of God's incomprehensible love ...

you veer away from what is written in John 17 ... what the Lord Jesus Christ taught His apostles on the very night He allowed Himself to be taken to be crucified ... to conflate it with what is written in John 10 ... what the Lord Jesus Christ taught the pharisees who overheard Him speak to the blind man He had just led to faith ...

you veer away from the fact that what I believe does not equal my having "perverted" anything written in Scripture ...

your continuous reverting back to your same ole, same ole "talking points" due to your inability to engage in meaningful dialogue is duly noted.

.

I didn't veer away from anything -- except YOUR personal presuppositions -- your false premises. Instead I thoroughly refuted all your falsehoods with biblical premises and presuppositions.

And why are you so disingenuous? If I replied and didn't cite or quote any scripture to answer you, you would have asked me to provide biblical proof. But now that I have provided precisely that, you denigrate the biblical proof to my mere "talking points", as though the all-sufficiency of Christ's atonement hasn't been one of your talking points. Duplicitous much?

 

[Jordon]

My opinion along with all those who translated it impulse/lust/passion etc.

You need to study scripture.

I don't play games with God's word.

grace and peace

I dont believe you

 

[reneweddaybyday]

correct so when a scripture writes to yield yourself it's coming from his alive and active word in them

yes ... and it is up to the individual who reads or hears the Scripture to "yield" ...

Romans 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.


the word "yield" is a verb in both places ...

the verb is active ... meaning the hearer is the doer/performer of the action.

the verb is an imperative ... meaning a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding.

You yield ... God does not yield for you. God provides all that is necessary for you to yield.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

hoping is good, but really what hope does a person have when they can't give a caring person the recognition they deserve. Seems to me magenta has been very caring here to many people for a long time, and what recognition do the mockers here give her on Christmas eve Christmas day, new years eve and new years day,

I pretty much stay out of the fray, Jordon. My time is limited ... I will respond if/when challenged directly or if/when I want to join in a discussion of a topic or Scripture verse(s) ...

other than pointing out that certain behaviors are not limited to one side or the other, I stay out of trying to defend others.

Well the same old disgusting recognition actually, I would say that's pretty sad, how about you ?

I hope/pray God blesses @Magenta richly each and every day!!!

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

RBDB wrote in part in her 33,300

Post 33,300 was submitted by you, Rufus.

I submitted Post 33,298 in response to your Post 33,201.

Why did I jump to an "unrelated passage in John 10"? I cited this latter chapter because I can count much better than you can. If you actually pinched yourself and bothered to wake yourself up from your sleep of death, you would see that Jesus prayed for TWO (2) groups of people in Jn 17 -- not just one.

since "Jesus prayed for TWO (2) groups of people in Jn 17", why did you conflate what is written in John 10 with what is written in John 17 ??? ...

why did you not stay within the context of John 17 to illustrate "that Jesus prayed for TWO (2) groups of people in Jn 17 -- not just one" ???

Thanks for proving to us, though, what a horrible exegete you are to miss something so plain, clear and obvious.

What is "plain, clear and obvious" is that you conflated what is written in John 10 concerning Jesus speaking to the pharisees after He brought the blind man to faith with what is written in John 17 at the time Jesus was praying to the Father when He was with His 11 apostles just hours prior to His giving Himself up to be taken to His crucifixion.

Heck...no one has to be an original language expert to understand who it was that Jesus prayed for.

and no one has to be an original language expert to understand that you conflate Scripture to suit yourself.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I didn't veer away from anything -- except YOUR personal presuppositions -- your false premises. Instead I thoroughly refuted all your falsehoods with biblical premises and presuppositions.

And why are you so disingenuous? If I replied and didn't cite or quote any scripture to answer you, you would have asked me to provide biblical proof. But now that I have provided precisely that, you denigrate the biblical proof to my mere "talking points", as though the all-sufficiency of Christ's atonement hasn't been one of your talking points. Duplicitous much?

rolleyes ... reduced to ad hominem due to your inability to refute the central point ... smh

.

 

[Jordon]

I pretty much stay out of the fray, Jordon. My time is limited ... I will respond if/when challenged directly or if/when I want to join in a discussion of a topic or Scripture verse(s) ...

other than pointing out that certain behaviors are not limited to one side or the other, I stay out of trying to defend others.





I hope/pray God blesses @Magenta richly each and every day!!!

.

. That's good you want that for her, only when you tell me you don't want my prayer I have a hard time believing you at your word here , seeing as you take the easy way out as well by saying you dont want to be involved, then not calling out inappropriate behaviour from cowardly men towards a caring female like magenta on special days like Christmas day and new year's day, says you don't think much of her. It's so true that people can be very unforgiving on Christmas, and well actions speak the truth about people

It's up to you what you do, but the fact you can't call this kind of behaviour out, when you can quite easily call her behaviour out when it's about you, just says you really don't want to give her any good recognition either.

 

[cv5]

John 1:12=13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

the term "not of blood" refers to lineage ... iow, just because a person can trace his or her lineage back to Jacob, this does not mean he or she is a child of God.

the term "the will of the flesh" refers to reproduction ... iow, just because a born again father and a born again mother have a child, that child is not automatically a child of God. A child who has a believing parent is sanctified by God (1 Cor 7:14). However, once the child is of age, the child is to believe for him or herself.

the term "the will of man" refers to a person's desire ... iow, a person may desire to be a child of God, but there is only one way ... and that is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ...

those who place their faith buddha ... those who place their faith in evolution ... those who place their faith in paganism (many gods/goddesses) ... these are not children of God, even though they want to be.





hope/pray God blesses you richly each and every day!!!

.

On point as usual thanks.
It may be that "will of man" and "will of the flesh" can also encompass the folly of works based salvation.

 

[Genez]

No one is deserving. Hence...grace.

If grace does it's work in you as God desires?
You then become deserving.

Then you move on to greater grace and stop thinking like a child.

 

[Genez]

You guys, always with he loaded questions thinking you can trap people, I stopped making that mistake a long while ago.

It is what happens when you bear light and it hurts their brain....

"Then the Pharisees went and conspired together plotting how to trap Him by [distorting] what He said." ​

​

(Matthew 22:15)​

We are not greater than our Master...
And, if that's how they treated Him?

So be it.

 

[Cameron143]

If grace does it's work in you as God desires?
You then become deserving.

Then you move on to greater grace and stop thinking like a child.

Grace doesn't make us deserving. It makes us accepted in Christ. We remain unprofitable servants who are simply doing our duty. Anything about us that appears good is the result of the work of God in us. God be praised for the glory of His grace and the honor of His great Name.

 

[Genez]

hoping is good, but really what hope does a person have when they can't give a caring person the recognition they deserve. Seems to me magenta has been very caring here to many people for a long time, and what recognition do the mockers here give her on Christmas eve Christmas day, new years eve and new years day,

Well the same old disgusting recognition actually, I would say that's pretty sad, how about you ?

You are acting just like the fake news media when it was defending Biden, saying he was as sharp as a tack.

I do not know why people like you choose for what you do.
But, something had your number when they recruited you into its camp.

 

[Genez]

Grace doesn't make us deserving. It makes us accepted in Christ.

Phase One.

If we then exploit grace in our lives, and keep growing in our learning more and more knowledge of truth?

We will become what?
"Worthy" of blessing.

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, ​

so that he may exalt you at the proper time." 1 Peter 5:6​

We remain unprofitable servants who are simply doing our duty.

Yes. But...

He does not want you to REMAIN unprofitable.

1 Peter 5:6, is an attitude we must endure and keep, until God decides that we have become worthy to be promoted.

Here's a problem:

False doctrine.
False doctrine retards spiritual growth needed to reach full maturity.
As long as we do not mature in the word?
And, shed false doctrine?
It will mean that we will not enter into greater grace where all of God's (for this life) blessings begin.

 

[Genez]

Grace is God's means to make the undeserving deserving.

 

[Cameron143]

Phase One.

If we then exploit grace in our lives, and keep growing in our learning more and more knowledge of truth?

We will become what?
"Worthy" of blessing.

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, ​

so that he may exalt you at the proper time." 1 Peter 5:6​

Yes. But...

He does not want you to REMAIN unprofitable.

1 Peter 5:6, is an attitude we must endure and keep, until God decides that we have become worthy to be promoted.

Here's a problem:

False doctrine.
False doctrine retards spiritual growth needed to reach full maturity.
As long as we do not mature in the word?
And, shed false doctrine?
It will mean that we will not enter into greater grace where all of God's (for this life) blessings begin.

You are worthy to be exalted? Then why will you cast your crown at Jesus' feet?

Also, read Luke 17:8-11. Having done all, we remain unprofitable servants. Our usefulness is to the degree we humble ourselves for Him to work through us.

The glory is always God's.

 

[Genez]

You are worthy to be exalted? Then why will you cast your crown at Jesus' feet?

You always take it too far.
You can never get the right balance.
It gives you something to attack, which you like doing.

In spite of your ongoing, locked in, antagonism...

It does say the following:

Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, ​

so that he may exalt you at the proper time." 1 Peter 5:6​

Grace and peace .......

 

[Genez]

You are worthy to be exalted? Then why will you cast your crown at Jesus' feet?

Also, read Luke 17:8-11. Having done all, we remain unprofitable servants. Our usefulness is to the degree we humble ourselves for Him to work through us.

The glory is always God's.

It is God's glory to be able to exalt a believer in the Devil's world.

For the Devil can't match the happiness, joy, and capacity for life that a mature believer will possess
when in the state of God's greater grace.

The Devil will promote his "stars"...
Give them "wealth and fame."

But leave them without inner joy and happiness that God gives when He finds a believer who desires
to become pre-occupied with sound doctrine of God's Word.

Maturing to the point where Jesus now can call him a friend, not simply a servant.

I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. ​

Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have ​

made known to you. John 15:15​

​

It's time to learn this....

 

[Mem]

But leave them without inner joy and happiness that God gives when He finds a believer who desires
to become pre-occupied with sound doctrine of God's Word.

How is this inner joy and happiness manifest? Is it only an inward expression? Does it not shine forth?