Random Questions; Bible-based answers
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No, you don't get off that easy. Provide the list of 45K denominations, or admit your lying.
Wikipedia isn't "proof." It is not a recognized source of information for academics or debate.
A more conservative count focusing on major denominational families and traditions (like Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Reformed, etc.) places the number in the low hundreds.
Which "denomination" is yours? Are you a denomination unto yourself? I'm sure whichever one you're a member, it's the "one true church."
Yes, this is a good point that needs greater emphasis, even though it would tend to cause mega-churches to sponsor satellite mission churches rather than to grow ever larger. Many mega-churches give a nod to the local house-church concept by sponsoring home fellowships that meet during the week. I nod to it by contributing financially to our local conservative Methodist church, even though I find its preaching boring and no longer attend regularly. I also give an annual gift/nod to our local Pentecostal church, even though I find their services too physically exhausting to attend. My wife and I also support and belong to a mega-church about ten miles away, which she now attends with a friend, but I now rarely attend because they were uninterested in how I might contribute otherwise.
To me, by giving funds to three local churches, it seems like you are investing in a divided Christ.
In my view the current church system cannot be reformed. Much like Jesus didn't come to reform the religious system of His day, we are called not to tend to the 501c3's but rather to the disheartened people caught in those institutions. Many are saying "There has to be more than this". Like Christ, we should be examples of the kingdom (way of life) He established in the earth. To support a "fractured Body of Christ" is to support the thing that is anti- everything He died for.
I know my friend @Eli1 believes that the divisions will remain through the end of time. I agree with him, but not on principle. They will remain because heresies (the New King James translates it as "fractures") have always been in the gathering yet, not as a standard but as a warning to others.
"19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."
Supporting divisions in the Body makes one sick and weak and may lead to untimely death:
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
There is no mystery here: the divisions of the Body are the reason the church is lame and sick.
But here's the kicker: the Lord allows the divisions so that those who walk in the Spirit (those who are approved) may be seen by the church.
In general, i agree with your view but i would like to add the Maturity of a Believer in this mix.
The maturity of a believer first produces Forgiveness. They don't beat a dead horse. When you have forgiveness you also see many points like Salvation and all its sub-categories which include free-will, osas of what have you, as a way for a believer to love God in their own way.
The problem is when some of these doctrines reach an immature believer and in-turn they could make them an atheist.
This is confirmed by those verses that you mentioned and but that's my understanding of these so-called 'division' for me. I don't see them as divisions.
I would never leave God if someone tells me something i disagree with. I would die for God. I simply see denominations as a different way to express their love and acknowledgment for God. When someone tells me "I am saved because i am chosen", who am i to question their love for God? Because that's what we all ultimately want. To be loved by God and to be with Him.
At the same time, we have to be Wise as serpents and innocent as doves - as Christ said - because you have to distinguish between someone who truly loves God in their own way, from someone who is using God to control and abuse others - which means that they might not even be Christians to begin with.
In the end, God is going to judge our hearts and intentions.
There was a Calvinist girl here in this forum a while ago who simply said 'I am chosen and the Gospel is intented to be spread to Belivers only".
At that point i had nothing but respect for her. She was clear and not manipulative in her choice, so i had nothing but respect for her.
I would be careful with people who muddy the waters though.
Re giving funds: No, just maximizing my chances!
Actually, my desire is to be ecumenical as much as possible per the kerygma.
They all have their good points, but none of them appreciate mine.
When I was a Minister of Education, I made it a point to visit every new member
and explore how they wanted to exercise their gifts in the body of Christ.
Thus, every member who wanted to serve in some way could do so.
That is a way current churches could be reformed.
Yes, weeds will remain until the harvest.
Yeah, some of the people are casualties of the divisions. But I think God will judge them less harshly than someone who foments divisions as a linchpin of salvation.
Eli, thanks for your substantive post, which I just noticed because it was not addressed to me.
I agree that a mark of a mature believer is willingness to forgive others who repent.
However, if perps are forgiven who do not rue their sin, then forgiveness abets more of the same.
I agree that false doctrines may be a stumbling-block that causes some to choose atheism,
which is about as divisioned as one can get.
I commend your willingness to die for God, and although denominationalism may be okay,
someone telling you that you are not chosen should cause you to question their concept of God,
who wants all to love Him and everyone else including enemies.
I think this may be what you meant in the next paragraph regarding discernment.
Yes, we should discern, and God will ultimately judge.
I discern that the girl you cited was wrong to think that God's desire is not for everyone to become chosen,
although I agree that we can respect her honesty, just as I do R for admitting he believes God does not love humanity.
My friend, first I’d like to commend you for your improved communication in this post.
I truly mean that from the heart. I see no acronyms here which is something that I truly appreciate from you.
However, you are the definition of the lack of self awareness my friend.
Just a couple of days ago you were arguing with another member here about WHY he doesn’t like a movie that you like.
I mean, this is why a lot of your comments make me laugh and yes I do forgive you about a lot of what you say and I wish I could discuss things more in-depth with you, but I don’t think you can. Last time I asked you detailed questions about a topic as a whole, instead of responding to my questions, you gave me the whole topic as a whole as a response. lol
Anyway, God bless you and cheers to you today in another beautiful day in God’s Creation.
My friend, first I’d like to commend you for your improved communication in this post.
I truly mean that from the heart. I see no acronyms here which is something that I truly appreciate from you.
However, you are the definition of the lack of self awareness my friend.
Just a couple of days ago you were arguing with another member here about WHY he doesn’t like a movie that you like.
Last time I asked you detailed questions about a topic as a whole, instead of responding to my questions, you gave me the whole topic as a whole as a response. lol
Anyway, God bless you and cheers to you today in another beautiful day in God’s Creation.
The absence of acronyms was accidental; I had forgotten that you hate them.
I must suggest that it is you who lacks awareness of English, because discussing is not arguing.
And because discussing is not a sin, I need no forgiveness, although I seek reproof if I am pejorative--
such as you accusing me of being too shallow for deep discussion.
BTW, have you seen the movie "God's Not Dead" and what do you think of it?
If you want to ask your questions again, I will try to answer them better.
"God's Not Dead" was a great movie!
I thought it was inspired by the song by the Newsboys (lyrics below), but wikipedia says it was by Rice Broocks' book,
God's Not Dead: Evidence for God in an Age of Uncertainty. The plot combines numerous sub-plots:
1. A Christian college student must sign an atheist professor's declaration to pass, they debate, he loses his girlfriend, etc.
2. The college prof was dating a Christian, whose brother has a girlfriend who writes articles critical of Duck Dynasty.
3. A Muslim girl is dominated by her father, who thinks his repression is an expression of love.
4. A pastor and his friend witness the professor being struck by a car and witness to him as he dies.
5. The Newsboys prepare for a concert which they give at the end where the college student and Muslim girl attend
and Willie Robertson is shown in a video clip. Then the Newsboys sing:
Let love explode and bring the dead to life
A love so bold to see a revolution somehow
Let love explode and bring the dead to life
A love so bold to bring a revolution somehow
Now I'm lost in Your freedom
In this world I'll overcome
(Chorus) My God's not dead, He's surely alive
He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion
God's not dead, He's surely alive
He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion
He's roaring, He's roaring He's roaring like a lion
Let hope arise and make the darkness hide
My faith is dead, I need a resurrection somehow
Now I'm lost in Your freedom
In this world I'll overcome.
(Chorus)
Let heaven roar and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
Let heaven roar and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
Let heaven roar (let heaven roar) and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
(Chorus twice)
I thought it was inspired by the song by the Newsboys (lyrics below), but wikipedia says it was by Rice Broocks' book,
God's Not Dead: Evidence for God in an Age of Uncertainty. The plot combines numerous sub-plots:
1. A Christian college student must sign an atheist professor's declaration to pass, they debate, he loses his girlfriend, etc.
2. The college prof was dating a Christian, whose brother has a girlfriend who writes articles critical of Duck Dynasty.
3. A Muslim girl is dominated by her father, who thinks his repression is an expression of love.
4. A pastor and his friend witness the professor being struck by a car and witness to him as he dies.
5. The Newsboys prepare for a concert which they give at the end where the college student and Muslim girl attend
and Willie Robertson is shown in a video clip. Then the Newsboys sing:
Let love explode and bring the dead to life
A love so bold to see a revolution somehow
Let love explode and bring the dead to life
A love so bold to bring a revolution somehow
Now I'm lost in Your freedom
In this world I'll overcome
(Chorus) My God's not dead, He's surely alive
He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion
God's not dead, He's surely alive
He's living on the inside, roaring like a lion
He's roaring, He's roaring He's roaring like a lion
Let hope arise and make the darkness hide
My faith is dead, I need a resurrection somehow
Now I'm lost in Your freedom
In this world I'll overcome.
(Chorus)
Let heaven roar and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
Let heaven roar and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
Let heaven roar (let heaven roar) and fire fall
Come shake the ground With the sound of revival
(Chorus twice)
Yes, and resolved by waging the Civil War. Is there a better solution?
What would you do if you were Prez?