Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

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HeIsHere said:
Spiritual knowledge/proof is as real as sensory knowledge/proof, but I agree many people are deceived, they think they are spiritually regenerated but are not.

I think proof is a complex thing.
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True but your spiritual knowledge is not proof to me as my spiritual knowledge is not proof to you since neither of us can see or verify each others thoughts.
 
HeIsHere said:
My point was that people trust in many things but it is the object of one's faith which proves itself.
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And my point was you don't have to have done anything but believe to have faith. Faith will inevitably lead to action, but it is faith that precipitates the action.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
True but your spiritual knowledge is not proof to me as my spiritual knowledge is not proof to you since neither of us can see or verify each others thoughts.
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Are you stating this with regards to personal salvation, as in, we cannot really know if someone is a believer?
 
Just_A__Follower said:
Completely indisputable evidence that is undeniable and leaves absolutely no room for doubt. I would almost say it doesn’t exist in this world besides possibly in physics and mathematics.
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Not so. Faith in God is 100% certain. The evidence can be material but is often merely accomplished by the direct revelation of God.
 
HeIsHere said:
Yes I would agree, I think God set it up that way, people need to trust (which pleases Him) and that is different than acting on proof.
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We can’t possibly understand the complexity of His creation more less the complexity of Him which is why yes we have no choice but to trust Him.

Having said that, we also can’t understand the complexity of His will or even our own. Debating on whether we have free will or not almost looks like a couple 3 year olds debating on whether wave-particle duality exists or not. They can’t possibly understand it so what’s the point. Most debates would go by quicker if both sides just stated “this is what I don’t know but what I believe”.

fun fact: A recent study actually showed that in online debates approximately 70% of the people come away with a harder stance in what they believed than they had before the debate.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
We can’t possibly understand the complexity of His creation more less the complexity of Him which is why yes we have no choice but to trust Him.

Having said that, we also can’t understand the complexity of His will or even our own. Debating on whether we have free will or not almost looks like a couple 3 year olds debating on whether wave-particle duality exists or not. They can’t possibly understand it so what’s the point. Most debates would go by quicker if both sides just stated “this is what I don’t know but what I believe”.

fun fact: A recent study actually showed that in online debates approximately 70% of the people come away with a harder stance in what they believed than they had before the debate.
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Agree 1000 % :);)

The topic of free will encompasses neuroscience, philosophy, theology and cognitive science.

I am mostly on this thread to stifle Calvinist proselytizing.
 
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HeIsHere said:
Are you stating this with regards to personal salvation, as in, we cannot really know if someone is a believer?
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We cannot truly know if another is a believer cause we can’t see their heart. Sure we can see they the fruit they produce but I’m sure there are some really kind and patient serial killers out there. We can just go by fruit but we leave out the chance for them being a hypocrite. And whether they’re a believer or not it shouldn’t matter as far as to how we treat them.
 
Just_A__Follower said:
We can’t possibly understand the complexity of His creation more less the complexity of Him which is why yes we have no choice but to trust Him.

Having said that, we also can’t understand the complexity of His will or even our own. Debating on whether we have free will or not almost looks like a couple 3 year olds debating on whether wave-particle duality exists or not. They can’t possibly understand it so what’s the point. Most debates would go by quicker if both sides just stated “this is what I don’t know but what I believe”.

fun fact: A recent study actually showed that in online debates approximately 70% of the people come away with a harder stance in what they believed than they had before the debate.
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We go by what the Bible says. That is, unless you are a free willer. Then many verses get ignored, contradicted and denied. Rewritten, even.
 
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Just_A__Follower said:
We cannot truly know if another is a believer cause we can’t see their heart. Sure we can see they the fruit they produce but I’m sure there are some really kind and patient serial killers out there. We can just go by fruit but we leave out the chance for them being a hypocrite. And whether they’re a believer or not it shouldn’t matter as far as to how we treat them.
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nearly every single post you make puts doubt in faith, makes me wonder whether you think much about yourself, even your username suggests being a follower doesn't mean that much to you, I suspect your following faith that is not really important to you.

Your posts are very depressing
 
Magenta said:
I said we go by what the Bible says. How is it you completely failed to comprehend that?
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Yes I read that you go by what the Bible says. I didn’t fail to comprehend that. I simply asked if you understand the complexity of Gods will and the human will. Just a question
 
Jordon said:
nearly every single post you make puts doubt in faith, makes me wonder whether you think much about yourself, even your username suggests being a follower doesn't mean that much to you, I suspect your following faith that is not really important to you.

Your posts are very depressing
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It is truly amazing how many interpret being taken captive to do the will of the devil as having a will that is free.
 
Jordon said:
nearly every single post you make puts doubt in faith, makes me wonder whether you think much about yourself, even your username suggests being a follower doesn't mean that much to you, I suspect your following faith that is not really important to you.

Your posts are very depressing
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Then don’t read them. Use your free will to hit the ignore button.
 
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