144,000: The first resurrection and rapture of the church

[Aaron56]

In Revelation 7:1-8, the 144,000 are described as being sealed from every TRIBE of the sons of Israel. The text specifies that 12,000 are sealed from each of the twelve tribes, making a total of 144,000.
Nevertheless, YOU insist that these are NOT taken our of the "twelve tribes." Should we believe you or the sccriptures?

Right. And the Lord is really a lion-lamb-root thing.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

An indication that the 12 tribes mentioned in Rev 7 are not natural seed is this prophecy predicting that God will make gentiles members of the tribe of Levi

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:20-21​

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[Psalm1]

An indication that the 12 tribes mentioned in Rev 7 are not natural seed is this prophecy predicting that God will make gentiles members of the tribe of Levi

And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD. And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:20-21​

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That chapter is talking about the final war and the end times, years after the 144,000 are chosen FROM 12 TRIBES AS THE BIBLE SAYS.

I knew you are one of those that muddy up the 144,000 and who they are.

Your doctrine does not guide you any other way.

Sad.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

That chapter is talking about the final war and the end times, years after the 144,000 are chosen FROM 12 TRIBES AS THE BIBLE SAYS.

I knew you are one of those that muddy up the 144,000 and who they are.

Your doctrine does not guide you any other way.

Sad.

You so dishonor God with your unbelief. Gentiles have been brought to the house of God for the past nearly 2000 years years, yet you don't honor God for being faithful to his words for bringing them to pass.

 

[ATG]

Again your resurrection summary is incorrect:

There is a resurrection ORDER:

Again, just saying 'incorrect', doesn't make it so. Only showing error in the argument given, can correct it.

Which is not by just repeating yourself.

Firstfruits/Passover = the early portion: Matt 27 Jesus then the 144k, probably many more.

Pentecost/The Main Harvest = Church caught up 1 Thes 4:17. Those believers that slept/in death & then those believers that are alive. Meet the Lord in the air!

Tabernacles/The Gleanings: ALL Israelites still alive, tribulation martyrs etc. 1 Cor 15 & Rev 20.

All three ORDERS stand at the Bema seat. Not a sin judgment discussion. Everyone here has been washed in the blood. Rewards based discussion.

All 3 soul Harvests belong to the "ONE" 1st resurrection ORDER category.

The Second Resurrection: Is ONLY the unbelieving found at the White Throne Judgment. No believers, No rewards, Only judgment & eternal separation from God their creator.

Since there are only three resurrections of dead bodies are recorded in Scripture: First Jesus Christ, then the first resurrection of His church, finally of all the rest of the dead. Then there are only three times when dead bodies are resurrected from the dead.

Your effort to come up with some sort of phased in resurrection, at more than three different times, therefore proves your misuse of firstfruits harvest.

The simple 3 step harvest in Scripture, accounts for the simple 3 resurrections in Scripture.

 

[ATG]

It is because it is grafted onto natural Israel.

Can't get any clearer than that. Try telling that to the unbelieving Jews and Israeli's, that are still looking for their messiah to first come...

I could just hear them, when some self-styled Christian 'Gentile', tries to tell them that they now have newly grafted Israelis in their nation. And done by the risen Jesus Christ, no less. That alone would lead them to confirm, that they did right in crucifying that crazy so-called Messiah.

At this point, I would say you may have miss-typed, or are only trying to goad responses. But having seen some of your other stuff, I'll copy and keep this one for future proof of how far some will go, in order to become a grafted part of the Israeli nation. Thanks.

The Israeli nation is not the holy nation of the risen God of Israel.

The holy nation of the Lamb is not grafted onto the Israeli nation.

 

[ATG]

All mountains are Earth based. Some are tall enough to be near clouds but Sion is not.

All mountains are Earth based. Some are tall enough to be near clouds, but Sion is not earth based.

I didn't know that earth based Mt Zion isn't tall enough for the clouds, but I'll take your word for it...

 

[ATG]

QUOTE
""he 144,000 sealed servants of the living God and the Lamb, must only be natural born Israeli-Jews, is an open schism in the body, that dishonors other members, and makes the Head Jesus less glorious in their own eyes...""


I am not moved by any of that.

I don't expect you to be. Nor do I care. However, it's the first time you've mentioned denying it.

"Methinks thou defendest thyself too much..."

 

[ATG]

The Jews were not in error for not being a gentile.

I told you not to play any anti-semite card, if you want me to engage you. That includes not doing it by insulting intelligence.

If you jetison the 2 wives, end times is a shallow study.

If you make up the 2 wives, end times becomes a study in mysticism...

 

[ATG]

Once a " replacement theology" path is CHOSEN, the logical conclusion is anti semitism.

That's it. Without an apology and promise never to play race-cards, We're done.

 

[ATG]

The discussion was the 144k. I made no mention of David or Job.

I do. Any Scripture can be made mention of, if it applies to the Scripture at hand. Such as the first resurrection of the Lamb's church at His return.

Neither, David nor Job were virgins, that would disqualify them.

2Co 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Ignorance or neglect of NT doctrine, when interpreting NT prophecy. Especially if NT doctrine is ever contradicted. (As some self-styled Christian 'Gentiles' do, when saying only Jews can be sealed to serve the living God. So that they segregate between Greek, Scythian, Russian, Macedonian, and Jew in the body and service of Christ on earth...

In an earlier reply you said: Just let scripture say what scripture say's. My post did that:

Matt 27:
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
(PARSING: Jesus dies/on Passover/Nisan 14)

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
(PARSING: Jesus rips the Temple veil in 1/2 on the way to paradise)

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
(PARSING: Many SOULS are RESURRECTED!)

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
(PARSING: After Jesus is RESURRECTED 1st/BTW on FIRSTFRUITS/Nisan 16. Then many saints are RESURRECTED!)

1st, This recorded RESURRECTION event happens 50 days before the Acts 2 Pentecost. So, their are NO body of Christ/Church Saints in this FIRSTFRIUTS resurrection event.

2ndly, The Rev 14: 144k are part of this recorded FIRSTFRUITS RESURRECTION event.

Rev 14:
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him a 144k, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
(PARSING: These 144k were redeemed from the earth)

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
(PARSING: "Redeemed From Among Men" being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God & to the Lamb)

REREADING Rev 14:1-4, 144k are > FIRSTFRUITS/"Redeemed From Among Men")

This language is directly lifted from the Lev 23:9-11 FIRSTFRUITS wave offering. They are the first portion of a larger SOUL HARVEST to come. These OT saints are set apart & presented to God.

These 144k that were sleeping/dead. literally rise-up, right after Jesus on the feast of firstfruits Are the Bible says they are:


"Redeemed From Among Men" being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God & to the Lamb.

Scripture Matt 27:52-53 says graves were open & MANY that were sleeping/DEAD rose right after Jesus rose & were seen by many.

"Redeemed From Among Men" being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God & to the Lamb.

That's what scripture says. Yet, you say that's not true.

So you say. Just repeating yourself doesn't say it any better.

I've already shown correction by direct challenges to your doctrine. Just repeating yourself doesn't show any error in mine.

If you want to directly challenge my teaching, then I'll be glad to see it; otherwise, I'm moving on. Thanks much.

 

[ATG]

I made my case, you made your & we disagree. I'm gonna leave it at that. Best wishes, FB

You too. Thanks again.

 

[ATG]

“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬ ‭


“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭

“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬


….“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“but ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:1‬ ‭

“until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.”
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭7:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭20:4‬ ‭

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Good Scripture. Thanks.

 

[ATG]

This sounds like how the Gnostics interpreted the scriptures. They did not accept the plain meaning of the word. Instead they assumed the Bible was a code book of types and allegories which could only be understood by SPECIAL REVELATION.
.

It doesn't take special code to read two different lists with different grammatical names, to show they are not the same list of names.

The special code is trying to say two different grammatical names are not two different physical tribes. And so two different lists of names is the same list. That's where the mystical air is entered into.

Biblio-phobes that try to find fault in Scripture, use Rev 7 as proof that Scripture contradicts Scripture, by one list of names supposedly repeating the same list elsewhere, and instead contradicts it.

Christian believers intent only making them the same list, in order to prop up a NT Jews-only prophecy, only make it worse, by denying the lists don't contradict each other, or worse by offering lame interpretations for how they don't contradict each other...

The special code is trying to say two different grammatical names are not two different physical tribes. That's where the mystical air is entered into.

And worst of all, they not only deny different grammatical names, makes them different tribes, but also deny NT doctrine means what it says, that there is no schism and segregation in the body and service of the living God and Jesus Christ.

Segregation theology in the body of Christ rejects the whole principle of Jesus' gospel, that He specifically died for:

Jhn 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Jhn 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Comment;

the First Resurrection is not back to our temporary physical bodies -- but to spirit

1 Corinthians 15
42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption;(physical) it is raised in incorruption: (spirit)

Philippians 3
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

In the first resurrection we are "born from above" and into spirit exactly as Christ is now Spirit, same body as Jesus Christ

there is a 2nd resurrection and that resurrection is back to flesh and blood see Ezekiel 37, to be judged

 

[FlyingDove]

Therefore, the 144,000 are resurrected and ascended with the Lamb Jesus Christ. This must be the first resurrection of the blessed and holy saints of God. There are only two resurrections from the dead (Other than that of the man Jesus Christ), where the first resurrection is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, includes both the good and the bad, whose names are written and not written in the Lamb's book of life.

 

[ewq1938]

All mountains are Earth based. Some are tall enough to be near clouds, but Sion is not earth based.

All mountains are on the Earth. Heaven does not have dirt, rocks and volcanoes.

I didn't know that earth based Mt Zion isn't tall enough for the clouds, but I'll take your word for it...

Sion and Zion are names for the same mountain/place etc. It's not super tall compared to others.

 

[ewq1938]

Can't get any clearer than that. Try telling that to the unbelieving Jews and Israeli's, that are still looking for their messiah to first come...

I could just hear them, when some self-styled Christian 'Gentile', tries to tell them that they now have newly grafted Israelis in their nation. And done by the risen Jesus Christ, no less. That alone would lead them to confirm, that they did right in crucifying that crazy so-called Messiah.

At this point, I would say you may have miss-typed, or are only trying to goad responses. But having seen some of your other stuff, I'll copy and keep this one for future proof of how far some will go, in order to become a grafted part of the Israeli nation. Thanks.

The Israeli nation is not the holy nation of the risen God of Israel.

The holy nation of the Lamb is not grafted onto the Israeli nation.

I'm tired of your strawman fallacies.

 

[Psalm1]

You so dishonor God with your unbelief. Gentiles have been brought to the house of God for the past nearly 2000 years years, yet you don't honor God for being faithful to his words for bringing them to pass.

You all there???
We both believe that.
Get some traction please.
General character hacks prove nothing.

 

[Psalm1]

That's it. Without an apology and promise never to play race-cards, We're done.

Lol.
Not even part of the discussion or what I am saying.
Try harder to get traction.