Pisteuo, and John 3:16

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

You said,
Relational: Trusting God personally.
Active: Leading to transformed conduct.
Content-filled: Acknowledging revealed truth.
More than Emotion: A deep conviction and commitment.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines biblical "faith" (Greek pistis) primarily as a firm conviction, a trust, and a loyal adherence to God/Christ, encompassing a firm persuasion, a personal surrender, and a conduct inspired by that trust, not just intellectual assent.


This is your Posting of this scripture ----where your adding this to being saved -----lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

The correct translation, John 3:16.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'm saying,
The Vines definition of pisteuo is 1) "a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation or truth."

Questions for you to ask yourself : This definition is saying that you have been convinced to the point that you have been given a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation of truth, or trust. This means the mind of Christ. This revelation comes from "the firm conviction" not a anything else. if your asking yourself, do i have the mind of Christ? Then trust me you don't yet, and need to consider yourself at the calling of the Father stage, with God awaiting a correct response.

2) "a personal surrender to Him".
Questions for you to ask yourself. What am i surrendering to Him? ( your life ). Who am i surrendering my life to? ( at the beginning the caller which is the Father.) ( After i recieve His Spirit, Jesus the anointed messiah.) it's a continual surrender that starts , maintains, and completes the relationship here on earth.)

3) "a conduct ( or life) inspired by such surrender."
Questions to ask yourself. Am i making all the many little daily decisions that show God i really do consider my life to be His now? (At the beginning a genuine offered life is required, not a perfect one. Each time you make a decision supporting the surrendered life, God reciprocates with something in return.

This is what saving Faith applied is. "pisteuo' in the Greek. You can call it "true believing" but if that "true believing" is in Gods word and not God Himself, it will avail nothing.

Any expectation of anything in return while fulfilling pisteuo is working against us, so remember that.

If you can't accept this definition of pisteuo from the Vines, our discussion is at a standstill. If you can accept this understanding, i open to any questions you might have.

As for us being saved by the Faith of Christ. That is one of Gods paradoxical truths that can only be understood in Him. Jesus is the first goer of faith, and we are to follow by fulfilling pisteuo. That's whet i would focus on.

Thank God your posts are so bizarre and confusing that no one can fathom the inane ramblings of your confused mind. Jesus' sheep don't know your voice.

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. John 10:4-5​

 

[mailmandan]

With respect.
Still waiting for your understanding on how "pisteuo" is fulfilled in responding to the call of the Father.

It's fulfilled by believing in Christ unto salvation. (John 3:16; 6:40; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..) To believe, to have faith, to trust in Jesus Christ for salvation.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The gospel is simple. Satan's ministers make it complicated

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:3​

 

[Watchman22]

It's fulfilled by believing in Christ unto salvation. (John 3:16; 6:40; Acts 10:43; 16:31 etc..) To believe, to have faith, to trust in Jesus Christ for salvation.

If this truly matters to you, go check out the rediscovering pisteuo thread. Probably on the second page.

Jesus, His word, and His promises, can only be claimed as our own if they we are "in Christ ". ROM. 8:9
"Believing" in those things that aren't ours can't start the process to make them ours. Only a true response of pisteuo can move us forward towards Him. " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ".

"Believing" the mistranslation, or at best BAD translation is a none starter. I have a mountain of facts in the rediscovering pisteuo thread to support that.

 

[Watchman22]

Here is the best part of the Vines definition of pisteuo, what they highlight after those 3 definitions.

Vines comment on the Greek word pisteuo.
"Prominence is given to one of those 3 definitions according to the context. ALL THIS STANDS IN CONTRAST TO BELIEF IN IT'S PURELY NATURAL EXCERSISE, WHICH CONSISTS OF AN OPINION HELD IN GOOD FAITH WITHOUT NECESSARY REFERENCE TO IT'S PROOF. THE OBJECT OF ABRAHAM'S FAITH WAS NOT GODS PROMISE ( THAT WAS THE OCCASION OF IT'S EXERCISE) HIS FAITH RESTED ON GOD HIMSELF. "

Gods calling is the occasion for the correct response. God Himself, the caller must be the the object of a correct response of pisteuo.

 

[Watchman22]

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

Strongs: 4100 = "Pisteuo means not just to BELIEVE, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated " commit unto", "commit to ones trust ", "be committed unto ".

Vines: pisteuo is "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

Now I will simply replace the mistranslated word "believe" with the Vines definition of the Greek word pisteuo.

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

My question is, do you see a difference in these two translations?

If we are weighing where true saving faith lives, why wouldn't we error on the side of caution. Believing being on one side, a continual surrender to Him being on the other.

When you start to make the many daily decisions that support the surrendered life with that question in mind, you will learn very fast how important it is.

 

[mailmandan]

If this truly matters to you, go check out the rediscovering pisteuo thread. Probably on the second page.

Jesus, His word, and His promises, can only be claimed as our own if they we are "in Christ ". ROM. 8:9
"Believing" in those things that aren't ours can't start the process to make them ours. Only a true response of pisteuo can move us forward towards Him. " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender ".

"Believing" the mistranslation, or at best BAD translation is a none starter. I have a mountain of facts in the rediscovering pisteuo thread to support that.

You're eisegesis which revolves around Vine's definition of pisteuo results in confusing justification with ongoing sanctification and also seems to culminate in salvation by works.

 

[NightTwister]

What you are teaching is that faith alone is not sufficient for salvation.
One must also be baptized by a third party and one must live a surrendered life.
You are teaching that a God that created all is not strong enough to save a person by his own power, but He needs a third person to dunk you under water and needs you, by your own power to be surrendered to Him.
You are adding works to salvation, plain and simply rejecting the truth.
If that is what you are basing your eternal life on, I am very concerned for your standing before God.

What you are teaching, faith plus works, is not what the Bible teaches about salvation. Jesus doesn't need any help from you to save you.

 

[Watchman22]

You're eisegesis which revolves around Vine's definition of pisteuo results in confusing justification with ongoing sanctification and also seems to culminate in salvation by works.

No, my eisegesis revolves around my own experience. Everything I'm presenting to you is validation of that experience, and is why I am responsible for doing my best to persuade you and other called out ones to do the same.

Here is my reply to what seems to you, to be works salvation.

Christ's work on the cross was completed, finished, done, nothing can be or needs to be added.
Now is a correct response to that free gift, pisteuo, a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender take work and effort, of course it does. It's 95% courage, 4% tenacity, and 1% everything else.

Here's some facts about pisteuo.

The English language tends to limit faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, confidence or trust. And it leaves the "Will", to another word "obedience". The King James thus sets free faith from works. The Greek doesn't allow that. You don't have pistis or pisteuo until you added the will and put your life in continuing action on what the mind believes, and what the heart has confidence in. It's an expression of the "whole man."

 

[mailmandan]

No, my eisegesis revolves around my own experience. Everything I'm presenting to you is validation of that experience, and is why I am responsible for doing my best to persuade you and other called out ones to do the same.

Here is my reply to what seems to you, to be works salvation.

Christ's work on the cross was completed, finished, done, nothing can be or needs to be added.
Now is a correct response to that free gift, pisteuo, a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender take work and effort, of course it does. It's 95% courage, 4% tenacity, and 1% everything else.

Here's some facts about pisteuo.

The English language tends to limit faith to the mind, to belief, to the emotions, confidence or trust. And it leaves the "Will", to another word "obedience". The King James thus sets free faith from works. The Greek doesn't allow that. You don't have pistis or pisteuo until you added the will and put your life in continuing action on what the mind believes, and what the heart has confidence in. It's an expression of the "whole man."

Just another way of trying to "shoehorn" obedience/works "into" salvation through faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Pisteuo is used 248 times in the NT.

Strongs: 4100 = "Pisteuo means not just to BELIEVE, but also to be persuaded of; and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, and signifies in this sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated " commit unto", "commit to ones trust ", "be committed unto ".

Vines: pisteuo is "A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. "

Now I will simply replace the mistranslated word "believe" with the Vines definition of the Greek word pisteuo.

The mistranslation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "believes" in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. "

The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I'd like to hear serious comments from those who are really seeking to know scripture and the way to follow Christ.

My question is, do you see a difference in these two translations?

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure you are gonna catch the relation to what your talking about but I quoted this because as we start to listen to the things jesus was teaching like above there , it correctly shapes our faith by his own words that we believe in .

So our faith begins to sound more like this

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and understand this part

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18-24, 26‬ ‭

yet if one is taught from the beginning “ you never need to do anything just “ believe in Jesus “ don’t think you need to listen to what he said and obey him that’s not for you just believe in the “ finished works of the cross “ dont concern yourself with things like what you actually do or what he said would save or condemn you in the gospel just believe because of grace “ ect ect

ashen you first learn something and it sinks in it becomes harder to change your foundational thinking later even when confronted with clear and plentiful amounts of scripture

If I learn the concept faith means I never need to act or do what he said “

Or if we learn “ faith means hearing what he said and believing and acting upon it because of what he said because I do actually believe that Jesus is the Lord I understand my place is to learn from him and follow where he leads me

The seeds that get planted really matter later

I agree with your concept “ believe “ isnt like just believing God exists but actually accepting him as your Lord and God which means we trust his leading and command before us and follow after those things he’s called us into

there is a process though of being born and being immature and being more mature and more mature as we grow up in Christ and learn more

 

[Watchman22]

Just another way of trying to "shoehorn" obedience/works "into" salvation through faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

We can only be obedient on occasion when we are in Christ. At that point it's not us being obedient, but His obedience flowing through us.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Just another way of trying to "shoehorn" obedience/works "into" salvation through faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭

Strangely everything Paul said was to this purpose

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I wonder why making the people obedient in both word and deed was so important to Paul ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why pauls kinistry was always meant to make people o edient in word and deed because of the parts some reject even though it’s plainly written in the same letters .

Why is it important to repent ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why is obeying Jesus important to Paul why is he always trying to pursuade them to be obedient ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul taught a lot about works and judgement and salvation like some I just quoted to you

he never taught anyone ever to not give vet God or that it wasn’t important to repent and obey him everything he taught was meant to make the hearers obedient in word and deed elsewhere it’s the same


“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭

because jesus taught it from the start tbat of we hear and don’t do the things he taught it’s fooling ourselves like building a house on sand and expecting it to stand fall in the storm and tides it won’t it’s a illusion to think faith means you never have to act

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We can only be obedient on occasion when we are in Christ. At that point it's not us being obedient, but His obedience flowing through us.

some of you are missing the point of Paul’s ministry because you won’t actually read through his concepts and arguments

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

For it is God which worketh in you ( God works in us ) both to will and to do of his good pleasure.( so we can do his Will ) Do all things ( Paul’s instructing then to do the things not saying god Will obey and act for you ) without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul instructed more action and behavioral things than any nt writer because he was always making clear how important and essential thier actions were in response to what zgod has done and still does for us .

To make gentiles obedient was pauls main mission because he knew the judgement is coming

 

[mailmandan]

We can only be obedient on occasion when we are in Christ. At that point it's not us being obedient, but His obedience flowing through us.

Still doesn't change the fact that salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Romans 4:5:6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

 

[Watchman22]

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: he is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure you are gonna catch the relation to what your talking about but I quoted this because as we start to listen to the things jesus was teaching like above there , it correctly shapes our faith by his own words that we believe in .

So our faith begins to sound more like this

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and understand this part

“Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18-24, 26‬ ‭

yet if one is taught from the beginning “ you never need to do anything just “ believe in Jesus “ don’t think you need to listen to what he said and obey him that’s not for you just believe in the “ finished works of the cross “ dont concern yourself with things like what you actually do or what he said would save or condemn you in the gospel just believe because of grace “ ect ect

ashen you first learn something and it sinks in it becomes harder to change your foundational thinking later even when confronted with clear and plentiful amounts of scripture

If I learn the concept faith means I never need to act or do what he said “

Or if we learn “ faith means hearing what he said and believing and acting upon it because of what he said because I do actually believe that Jesus is the Lord I understand my place is to learn from him and follow where he leads me

The seeds that get planted really matter later

I agree with your concept “ believe “ isnt like just believing God exists but actually accepting him as your Lord and God which means we trust his leading and command before us and follow after those things he’s called us into

there is a process though of being born and being immature and being more mature and more mature as we grow up in Christ and learn more

I felt your heart pilgrimshope. I just think we have a fundamental difference in our perspective of the Word of God.

You look at Gods word as your object of faith, and there's a right time and place where that would be correct. But because your seeing Gods word as your object of faith from the beginning, that only needs to be "believed", no toil or effort is required, it reduces it to alot of mandates of what to believe.

I see Gods word as a tool that God uses to make Himself known "in us". When we are continually surrendering ourselves to Him, and He responds by indwelling us, Gods word becomes like a mirror to see His work in us. The only requirement is to keep doing what started the relationship in the first place. When we are given "His mind" as a result of a correct faith response, we aren't just given Him, it's also a download of Gods word. It becomes part of you. There is no Truly believing, it's a part of you.

I can tell you put your heart in that post. And I'm happy for whatever reason I had you on ignore is gone. So I hope to share our understandings in more depth in the future.

I only hope you'll consider the things I'm sharing with you. That's all I can ask.

 

[Watchman22]

Still doesn't change the fact that salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Romans 4:5:6; 11:6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

Right, it's the "through faith" that I'm talking about. "Through pisteuo " Through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

All the dots connected.

 

[mailmandan]

“For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:26‬ ‭

Strangely everything Paul said was to this purpose

“For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭15:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I wonder why making the people obedient in both word and deed was so important to Paul ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:


but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why pauls kinistry was always meant to make people o edient in word and deed because of the parts some reject even though it’s plainly written in the same letters .

Why is it important to repent ?

“I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13:3‬ ‭

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

why is obeying Jesus important to Paul why is he always trying to pursuade them to be obedient ?

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul taught a lot about works and judgement and salvation like some I just quoted to you

he never taught anyone ever to not give vet God or that it wasn’t important to repent and obey him everything he taught was meant to make the hearers obedient in word and deed elsewhere it’s the same


“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭

because jesus taught it from the start tbat of we hear and don’t do the things he taught it’s fooling ourselves like building a house on sand and expecting it to stand fall in the storm and tides it won’t it’s a illusion to think faith means you never have to act

In regard to James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converge around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works. (Ephesians 2:5-10)

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Repentance is a change of mind and the new direction of this change of mind in receiving salvation is faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin. (Acts 20:21)

Now if one reads Romans 2:5-11 in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it’s imperative to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved conduct their lives. These good works done are the result of and not the basis or means of by which we receive eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal.

*Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath.

*Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9). What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, but the type of deeds expose our hearts.

These good deeds done out of faith are the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 3:24-28; 4:4-6; 11:6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[mailmandan]

Right, it's the "through faith" that I'm talking about. "Through pisteuo " Through a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender.

All the dots connected.

You mean all the dots connected to salvation through faith AND WORKS based on your eisegesis.

 

[homwardbound]

So is the watchmans responsibility to not harm the one hitting the stumbling block?

Let the one, anyone sitting in Moses' seat sit, Let those doing their own thing do it. What? Why? let them be under Law under the curse of the fallen first born flesh. I tell you the truth, God will sort it all out, in God's timing, not flesh and blood. Sincerely, I have experienced this as many are or are going to see too.
Matthew 10:16-20 Be wise, remain harmless. The remain harmless is the not so easy part.
Anger besets people, everyone, whether right or wrong, does it not?
Not a responsibility to me. A choice to be made by the love and mercy given us first, at least me. Father knows best Jeremiah 29:11
We love because God first love us all by Son, who is risen where the new life is a gift to all that will not quit to see, no matter how long it can take to see it. The First Chosen 430 years in slavery before delivered. They did not quit and none were ever righteous to begin with, neither am I, anyone else?