The Vines definition is not a good one. I can't recall that God ever told anyone to surrender, but he did constantly tell his people to obey his voice.
Pisteuo, and John 3:16
- Thread starter Watchman22
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Vines definition is not a good one. I can't recall that God ever told anyone to surrender, but he did constantly tell his people to obey his voice.
You mean your opinion of what those things are.
You are the one who brought up baptism as a part of salvation.
Vines page 116 quote
Pisteuo, to believe, also to be persuaded of, and hence, to place confidence in, to trust, signifies, in the sense of the word, reliance upon, not mere credence.
See COMMIT, INTRUST, TRUST.
Yes. That is one reason why Lord Jesus gave the gift of teachers to the church. Greek has nuances unknown to English. "Life" is one example; "love" is another. Greek has three words for both "life" and "love".
The problem I have with "surrender" is that it is passive. Lord Jesus requires active cooperation. It's like a soldier on the front lines changing sides. Previously, he fought for the enemy, now he fights against them. Watchman Nee prefers the word "yield". The implication is not only that do you stop resisting God in the negative but you obey God in the positive.
The auto correct system makes doubly sure I must proof read every post for their changes.
"Believe is a correct translation.
It has other equipment synonyms like trust and faith".
SHOULD READ,
Believe is a correct translation.
It has other equivalent synonyms like trust and faith.
Using the words faither and faithing instead of believer and believing is just a really dumb idea. It introduces complexity and weirdness that just isn't worth pursuing. It reminds me of people who think something towards godliness is accomplished by using the term Yeshua instead of Jesus, and using Hebrew pronunciations of bible words instead of their English pronunciations, or not being able to understand the gospel because it was translated from Greek NT manuscripts instead of Hebrew NT manuscripts that don't exist and have never been proven to exist.
There is absolutely no need to go down this weird rabbit hole that believe is a bad translation because the bible as a whole along with the witness of the holy spirit are fully capable of teaching us about the kind of belief/faith that is required to be saved.
There is absolutely no need to go down this weird rabbit hole that believe is a bad translation because the bible as a whole along with the witness of the holy spirit are fully capable of teaching us about the kind of belief/faith that is required to be saved.
I like yield, but the Vines Greek dictionary uses surrender.
My personal experience is more in alignment with surrender also.
The auto correct system makes doubly sure I must proof read every post for their changes.
"Believe is a correct translation.
It has other equipment synonyms like trust and faith".
SHOULD READ,
Believe is a correct translation.
It has other equivalent synonyms like trust and faith.
No surprise here, I totally disagree and t here's nothing but bad understanding built on a word that's not even in the Greek language.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith IS the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (NASB 1995)
The word love is not in the Greek language either, but scripture as a whole reveals what Godly love is, so we don't need to get hung up on a word and complicate peoples' lives by being word police; as if proper word usage determines godly behavior. It doesn't because the spirit teaches us the true meanings of words and give spiritual understanding so that our minds and actions are able to be conformed to what the words actually mean.
That would be the noun, pistis. How do you define the application of pistis, the corresponding verb pisteuo?
4100 pisteuó: To believe, to have faith, to trust
Original Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Pronunciation: pis-tyoo'-o
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
KJV: believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with
NASB: believe, believed, believes, believing, entrusted, believers, do
Word Origin: [from G4102 (πίστις - faith)]
1. to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit
2. (by implication) to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ)
Strong's Greek: 4100. πιστεύω (pisteuó) -- To believe, to have faith, to trust
Believing in one's heart. Out of the abundance of the heart a person speaks and acts.
Yes, I see a difference in the words used. Thank you. However God continues to love us all, at least me. I see to not use this grace as any excuse to get away with harming anyone else, including self
It is an exercising of Faith given us to see new and do new in love and mercy to all too, thank you
Father and Son for this down work to react to you in thank you, otherwise I have no chance to get in ever, wow woe is me Isaiah 6:1-7
You said,
Relational: Trusting God personally.
Active: Leading to transformed conduct.
Content-filled: Acknowledging revealed truth.
More than Emotion: A deep conviction and commitment.
Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words defines biblical "faith" (Greek pistis) primarily as a firm conviction, a trust, and a loyal adherence to God/Christ, encompassing a firm persuasion, a personal surrender, and a conduct inspired by that trust, not just intellectual assent.
This is your Posting of this scripture ----where your adding this to being saved -----lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."
The correct translation, John 3:16.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever "personally surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender", should not perish, but have everlasting life."
I'm saying,
The Vines definition of pisteuo is 1) "a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation or truth."
Questions for you to ask yourself : This definition is saying that you have been convinced to the point that you have been given a full acknowledgement of Gods revelation of truth, or trust. This means the mind of Christ. This revelation comes from "the firm conviction" not a anything else. if your asking yourself, do i have the mind of Christ? Then trust me you don't yet, and need to consider yourself at the calling of the Father stage, with God awaiting a correct response.
2) "a personal surrender to Him".
Questions for you to ask yourself. What am i surrendering to Him? ( your life ). Who am i surrendering my life to? ( at the beginning the caller which is the Father.) ( After i recieve His Spirit, Jesus the anointed messiah.) it's a continual surrender that starts , maintains, and completes the relationship here on earth.)
3) "a conduct ( or life) inspired by such surrender."
Questions to ask yourself. Am i making all the many little daily decisions that show God i really do consider my life to be His now? (At the beginning a genuine offered life is required, not a perfect one. Each time you make a decision supporting the surrendered life, God reciprocates with something in return.
This is what saving Faith applied is. "pisteuo' in the Greek. You can call it "true believing" but if that "true believing" is in Gods word and not God Himself, it will avail nothing.
Any expectation of anything in return while fulfilling pisteuo is working against us, so remember that.
If you can't accept this definition of pisteuo from the Vines, our discussion is at a standstill. If you can accept this understanding, i open to any questions you might have.
As for us being saved by the Faith of Christ. That is one of Gods paradoxical truths that can only be understood in Him. Jesus is the first goer of faith, and we are to follow by fulfilling pisteuo. That's whet i would focus on.
So is the watchmans responsibility to not harm the one hitting the stumbling block?
The inspired word of God pined by those of his choosing does not contradict each other but harmonizes to reveal the truths of the doctrine that Jesus taught. The word "world" is misinterpreted by most of God's elect people because God has blinded their eyes to the knowledge of Jesus's doctrine. God has revealed the doctrine to the remnant of spiritual Israel/Jacob and the rest are blinded due to turning away from God and worshiping idols and the idol that they worship is themselves by believing that their eternal deliverance (salvation) is gained by their good works, such as, accepting Jesus, confessing their sins, repenting, having faith, and many more. All of these good works are products of God's born again children unto good works. The natural man does not believe in spiritual things, neither can he believe in the things of the Spirit (Matt 25:34) (John 14)17) (John 15:18-19) (John 16:19-20) (John 17:9) (John 17:14) (John 18:36) ( James 4:4) (1 John 2:15-16) (1 John 5:19-21) You must first be born again of the Spirit before you can believe in the things of the Spirit. The "world" in John 3:16 is the world of believers. Let us rightly divide the worlds, to know witch world we are living in.
With respect.
Still waiting for your understanding on how "pisteuo" is fulfilled in responding to the call of the Father.
IMU, He accepts us, the surrendered life, not the other way around.
Just a statement, not insinuating your saying that.
"The world" in Greek simply means "a harmonious arrangement". the ir is a stark difference in importance between kosmos or aion and pisteuo though.
The Greek is specific about those who are called out. It specifies that God calls a small group out from among a larger group of those who are not called out.
Unless their are those who would come in sites like this to promote Apisteuo, faith in reverse, i think everyone in here is one of those lucky ones who is being called out by the Father.
That's a big deal!
Unless their are those who would come in sites like this to promote Apisteuo, faith in reverse, i think everyone in here is one of those lucky ones who is being called out by the Father.
That's a big deal!